N.E.S.E. the no solder module

[macribs]

364g - 6P full module.

364 gram for one module with 6p batteries? So a 20s12p would be 40 x 364 gram? 14.5 kilo for the modules alone? Then the weight of the batteries themselves? For 30Q 20s12p that would make 14.5 kilos for casing + additional 12 kilos for the 18650 batteries? 26.5 kg total. Nah that can't be right. Hopefully I didn't understand you correct.

Hm if that is the case some weight loss might be in order. How much of the casing can you shave off? It seems you should at least get 2/3 of the weight off if my math is correct.


It must be 364 gram module and batteries. That would make total weight 14.5 kilos for 20s12p. So the modules would add additional 2.5 kilos for a 240 cell battery.

 

[agniusm]

Its total with 6 lg hg2 cells. Do proportion math to get the amount of cells needed
14.56kg for 20s12p + some for wiring and series connectors.

 

[leelorr]

Oops, wrong thread, sorry.
Post has been deleted.

 

[agniusm]

Ether you are on the wrong thread or talking about wrong product. That design is not mine.

 

[cwah]

Ok, so 364g for a 6p module with LG HG2 cells.

LG HG2 cells are 47g. So 6 cells = 282g.

So the module without cell is 364 - 282 = 82g. So 13.6g / cell.

A 54 cell pack would be 2.54kg cell and 734g module. 3.27kg total.

A 240 cell pack would be 11.28kg cells and 3.26kg module. 14.5kg total.

The module alone count for about 30% of the battery weight... not including enclosure.


I'm hesitating with battery holder like this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/18650-battery-holder-Cylindrical-cell-2-10-plastic-holder-18650-lithium-ion-battery-bracket-plastic-case/32729220653.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.262.k3plKT&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1496055783098&sk=zj6qB6AIM&aff_trace_key=3108e13372784a3ab27b17a539902233-1496055783098-04572-zj6qB6AIM

It needs to be compact and lightweight to really be a stronger challenger to what exist now. Otherwise I'll keep doing spot welding although being able to have a pack without it would be much more beneficial.

 

[agniusm]

Your math is a bit rusty. To take your numbers modules account for 22.5% not 30%.
Modules are enclosed so you don't need a battery box other than frame space or other type of surface.
Spotwelded packs need nickel strip too plus you need to heatshrink it, put some gfrp, glue, so that narrows the gap down some further.
For reduction in complexity, ability to swap dead cells/modules, reusability... Everyone chooses.
To add a bit of sarcasm, nothing is built from thin air and we are subject to 9.8 any way you look at it

 

[cwah]

Yes my math was wrong lol. It's more 22.5% of the total weight. However, on a 240 cell pack, 3kg of module is still quite a bit.

My current pack, which count for 196 cells, is about 10kg. I started with the old style cell holder but it was taking too much space:

I decided to get rid of these 18650 bracket all together. Each of these holder don't take much space, but once all added together it's making the battery significantly bigger.

I didn't use any holder at all. Just glued them, wrap them and spot welded the lot. I tried my best to prevent chaffing by grouping them series by series.

It has been holding well so far... and including the protective tissue enclosure, it has maybe added 1kg max on top of the total weight.

Over the 2 years of use, 2 series failed, and I had to dismantle the whole pack which is a pain in the ass... so I'd definitely appreciate modularity proposed here.

However, I'm not sure I'd be ok to add 2+ kg for ease of maintenance because it's not that often. If only I could have the best of both world :lol: :lol:

 

[agniusm]

I think you are on the wrong thread from the start. Search for the weight loss

 

[agniusm]

Just did a crude weighing of spotwelded 18659 using holders. I have 43 grams not including whole battery heatshrink or ductape. 43 vs 82. 10% gain with so much more included... Just sayin'

 

[cwah]

43 vs 82g is about half the weight. On an ebike it does matter.

On my bike I found the holders too bulky so I removed them. Just glued them and isolated each serie with electric tape.

I don't use bus bar either.

On my current set up, it's significantly lighter and less bulky than using the old 18650 bracket holders.


However, it's not as safe and I'd like to move to a more reliable and easier to maintain system. I m hoping to find one someday that doesn't need too many compromises

 

[agniusm]

I wont continue to stand my point with you, its fruitless. Consider this, you glue your packs with hot glue(gues its not industrial too) which adds to total weight. I have seen your battery(if that is the one you are talking about) with not great welds, potential places for strip to chafe through cell isolation. you just cant compare it.
Weight matters but it does not matter as much as on pedal bike. You are not in competition tocount grams on your derailior unless you are obsessed with it.
In the end, product you are looking for does not exist nor will. I gues when majority of cells will have 30% more capacity it would still not satisfy you cause of the hardware needed to assemble them
For fun. You could eat less cheese and drink less wine before you roll, you could compensate on weight that way
Kirk out

 

[spinningmagnets]

cwah, you've made your points for the benefit of the readers, so they can take into consideration all of the possible factors. You have made it clear that this kit is not for you. Some battery pack builders will be very happy with this kit, so please just let them be happy. If you want something else, then...buy something else and post pics of the build for the benefit of the group.

 

[cwah]

ahah sorry. I may still buy it if that's the best we can have. trying to influence to have a lighter product

 

[macribs]

ahah sorry. I may still buy it if that's the best we can have. trying to influence to have a lighter product

Well you could do some tweaking I guess if you are truly obsessed, but if you look at the 240 cell example the added weight was about 2.5 kilos. I mean a week of low carbs diet will counter act the weight of the cell housing. And you will gain one of the safest way to build a battery, along with seriously low resistance so when you go WOT your battery will perform in the best possible way. And if or when you flip your ride, or put it to the ground you can be certain your cells are safe even after an impact. And if you never crash your bike while riding, you are doing it wrong.

If you look at this pic closely you can see that it will be possible to remove material to reduce weight. You could either edit the 3D file or you could crank start the Dremel.

Or you could drop inner tube front and rear and save about the weight of the battery casing. At least when you remove weight in your wheels you remove weight where it matters the most.

Centralized weight like from a battery is not critical mass. It is all sprung mass, and depending on the frame more or less centralized and should really not pay a big role in handling or performance. If your performance goes down, you have choosen the wrong motor

 

[cal3thousand]

ahah sorry. I may still buy it if that's the best we can have. trying to influence to have a lighter product

He's selling a design, and not finished product. You want lighter? Find a lighter material to print it with.

The whole e-bike game is about choosing your compromise since you can't have it all. (Maybe with enough money, yes, but none of us are that person)

The compromise here may be a small weight penalty, but you are gaining lower resistance, safety, configuration, rebuild-ability.

A more apples to apples approach would be to put this system into competition with VRUZEND, Energus, etc...

 

[spinningmagnets]

I dremeled a shallow notch just under the lid on the non-hinge end (notch in the body, not the lid). It allows me to use a coin to pop them open, while still leaving enough material to keep the sealed-style module water-resistant.

The modules are very rigid as per the current 1.0 design.

Lightening them is an option, whether by dremeling-out sections, or by having the code altered to 3D print a module with a skeletonized frame. However, the issue that I suspect that would occur is that some users will find the box becomes too flexy, but...that remains to be seen. I personally like the vented module, to let heat out. I plan to have a case over the entire pack (which would not be necessary for some builders). The sealed modules are very water-resistant, though not "water-proof", but adequate for some builders.

This business model specifically has the end-user order the boxes to be 3D-printed locally, rather than have Agniusm ship them. Get the design-file, and make whatever changes you desire, print-up a prototype, and then each of us can have our own variation in-hand to evaluate.

 

[tomjasz]

someone always knows better. I'm excited about every new design. I'm for putting $$ in to see them develop. No investment, no opinion. You have to trial someting unless you can produce a better design.... you're just adding noise.

 

[steven7601]

are these for sale now

 

[agniusm]

Good point made there by cal3thousand. I was using petg. Abs would be lighter. I also used 20% infill but tested with 17% as well.
I have the data to compare Energus, vruzend.
Volumetric density comes in this order high to low: vruzend, nese, energus.
P.S. Here is more meaningful data:

Vruzend 6P: 0.285l, 366g
NESE 6P: 0.200l, 364g
Energus 6P: 0.174l, 322g

P.P.S. Spinningmagnets, you are spot on about the model of this design. About waterproof bit. It can be done completely submersible if needed. Just print it with ABS, use acetone to weld lid to the body and drop some silicone from inside where tabs go outside the enclosure. Its no more cell-replaceable but watertight

 

[agniusm]

are these for sale now

I plan to start in two weeks. I have initial full sets for 100 modules and another 400 with 2 week lead time

 

[spinningmagnets]

It needs to be compact and lightweight to really be a stronger challenger to what exist now. Otherwise I'll keep doing spot welding although being able to have a pack without it would be much more beneficial

There are definitely some builders who will not be interested in this kit. That being said, there is a HUGE market for 48V / 52V (13S / 14S) battery packs, and it is growing every day. 14S / 6P is 84 cells. Using a 3500-mAh cell, that is roughly 21-Ah, and able to provide peaks of 60A. Even adding the extra bulk of the cases, many frames have plenty of room. The ebike I ride the most is an Electra cruiser. I have a 24-Ah pack in it, with room to spare. My BBSHD pulls 30A, and I plan to raise that to 45A soon...

I agree that this kit probably doesn't suit your needs, but I really love it, and I think that thousands of others will too!

 

[tomjasz]

There are definitely some builders who will not be interested in this kit. That being said, there is a HUGE market for 48V / 52V (13S / 14S) battery packs, and it is growing every day. 14S / 6P is 84 cells. Using a 3500-mAh cell, that is roughly 21-Ah, and able to provide peaks of 60A. Even adding the extra bulk of the cases, many frames have plenty of room. The ebike I ride the most is an Electra cruiser. I have a 24-Ah pack in it, with room to spare. My BBSHD pulls 30A, and I plan to raise that to 45A soon...

I agree that this kit probably doesn't suit your needs, but I really love it, and I think that thousands of others will too!

Every pack designed so far has a use, IMO. I'm excited and expect to have packs from each maker. The only disappointing pack is the Battery Bloc, but that has a place with some people too. But no where near as slick and sophisticated as this.

 

[agniusm]

Yesterday i have received 200 tabs, done dimpling and today drowe to plating shop. It was interesting to see the process of plating and big tanks of solutions. Hopefully it will not take long cause they do tin plating when large quantities arrive.

 

[tomjasz]

Yesterday o received 200 tabs, done dimpling and today drowe to plating shop. It was interesting to see the process of plating and big tanks of solutions. Hopefully it don't take long cause they do tin plating wheel large quantities arrive.

I've got an antique plating book we used 40 years ago to play. Some nasty stuff....

 

[agniusm]

Stock started comming in. Poron gaskets are die cut and they look good and sizing is perfect. Stainless steel bolts came to. Made in Japan, sweet Still waiting on square nuts and plastic screws and hopefully plating will be done by then.