Nano-tech LiPoly finally releases at HobbyCity! 45-90C!

liveforphysics

liveforphysics

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This is a beautiful day for the RC world, and folks into racing-types of EVs.

They are finally available to buy!

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11954


Needless to say, I've got a couple coming to play with. :)

360amp bursts from a 4Ah pack, 720amp bursts from an 8Ah pack, 1440amp bursts from a 16Ah pack, 2880amp bursts from a 32Ah pack, 5760amp bursts from a 64Ah pack, and the prices are fairly reasonable considering the performance.

This makes building an EV dragster possible with an entire battery sized to fit in a normal backpack. :) :) :)

Leave it to HobbyCity to be the first to employ cutting edge battery technology, and put it out there for prices that everday Joe can afford for his RC projects.
 
TIme to sell your racecar !!! seroiusly it just makes sense to me!! get off that racing gas man, hugs up your head!!
 

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$1/wh is way too much. For 10 MW, one would need 125 kwh which is like $125,000. For 2.5 MW(Or somewhere around 3200 hp), one would need about $30,000 worth of batteries. A paltry 1000 hp would require something like $10,000 of batteries.

On the other hand, it sounds like one might be able win at the dragstrip with these batteries. Just need a ... ??? ... $30,000 sponsor?
 
Yipes, that's a crazy high-C rating. :shock: Looks like they are using processes similar to what a123 has used, but with standard LiCo chemistry. Anyway, this definitely raises the bar.

-- Gary
 
GGoodrum said:
Yipes, that's a crazy high-C rating. :shock: Looks like they are using processes similar to what a123 has used, but with standard LiCo chemistry. Anyway, this definitely raises the bar.

-- Gary
Click to expand...

I want to see someone use process like that with LiFePO4 chemistries, other than a123 of course. :)
 
So today is the day huh? My credit card still hasn't recovered from my last hobbyking battery spree.

For some reason I had it my head that the new turnigy "nano-tech" were going to be LiFePO4, but now I see that they are modified LiCo. Interesting... I like the 10C charge rate. Looks like cell heating is a thing of the past.
 
The Mighty Volt said:
Where does this now leave A123 in terms of the LiPo vs LiFePo4 argument? Can it hold a flame to this new nano LiPo?
Click to expand...

The *new* a123 (second generation) is comparably powerful. The density figures, though, are on par with the density figures between lipo and lifepo4.
 
A really important question is what is the cycle life of this new nano-chemistry? Can one extend it time-wise or cycle-wise comparable to A123?

Matt mentioned in his LiPo thread he has discharged a LiPo battery for 5 years, still like new, by only using half its capacity before each recharge. We need some reliable data sheets on how to tweak this stuff. :mrgreen: :twisted:

swbluto said:
The Mighty Volt said:
Where does this now leave A123 in terms of the LiPo vs LiFePo4 argument? Can it hold a flame to this new nano LiPo?
Click to expand...
The *new* a123 (second generation) is comparably powerful. The density figures, though, are on par with the density figures between lipo and lifepo4.
Click to expand...
 
deVries said:
A really important question is what is the cycle life of this new nano-chemistry? Can one extend it time-wise or cycle-wise comparable to A123?
Click to expand...
[/quote]

I'll be buying one of the 3s 3300mah packs for cycle testing. Cool thing is, at 10C charge and 45c discharge, back to back, putting a full 1000 cycles on a pack would only take 5 days :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Of course I can't do 45c discharge, cause that's 150 amps. The best a 30A charger/discharger can do on the smallest pack they offer (the 3.3ah) is 9C. Which is still only 9 days to 1000.

I suppose one could use a cycle analyst, a simple micro, a CC/CV power supply, a 500-1000W resistor bank and some beefy contactors to achieve 45-90c discharge and 10C charge.
 
Maybe you could just hook the pack up to the welding leads and weld something for the fast discharges. :twisted:

Not really even joking, my god, you could easiy weld with those, charge em up in minuites, and weld some more. :shock:
 
WOW!!

That would make a Alternator/Generator welder obsolete for emergency road-side repairs for off-road vehicles!

I can see is now "DUDE! Look at the cracks on your chain stays! .... No problem we'll just weld them up with the Battery Pack! :twisted:"
:D :D :D


If they can get this stuff to the point where it has significant charge cycles and as low voltage sag as LiFeP04, then I'm gonna have to start saving up for new batteries! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
 
The Off road/Jeep guys have been welding with 2 12v batteries in series forever. That's how I built my first EV....used 2 of the traction AGMs as my welder.

I was thinking about an arc welder made from lipo last night while I fell asleep, you guys just brought it all back.

I think you'd want to use around 5s-6s....I was getting too hot an arc @24v w/ AGMs, so much that I had to put several crappy walmart jumper cables in series as resistance to get a more realistic arc. 5-10ah would be plenty for small projects and repairs, and any standard RC charger would get you fueled up fast.

Plus you can get something called a "ready MIG" which is basically just a portable spoolgun with intergrated electronics to run on 12-36v in a hardshell case. Made for portable welding with batteries.
 
Is it just me or is everyone missing the best thing about this? Every time they jack performance to a new level the price goes down for the lower C stuff, which is perfectly useful for our ebikes. I'm still holding out for $.25/wh incl shipping 8)

Hey Luke,
How long before you make your race car a parallel hybrid? 50kg of these can deliver 500hp for 1 minute. Add another 50kg of RC type motors and DIY controller, and you've got at least 4 or 5 runs worth of 500hp boost easily hidden. Is that enough to make sense or do you need to go to 200kg additional for 1000hp boost? :shock:
 
High Discharge is one thing, but can they cycle more than 1000 times?
A123 can do 30C, But also have the ability to do over 4,000 cycles at 1C.

For me, Hi power requirements have been met, I mean in all reality whats the point of a battery that runs flat in less than 2minutes, what we need is Improved capacity density, that is the next breakthrough we need.
 
LightningEVAustralia said:
For me, Hi power requirements have been met, I mean in all reality whats the point of a battery that runs flat in less than 2minutes
Click to expand...

Yes, greater energy density may be good. But, to respond, the point is so that one could charge more quickly, have the batteries last longer at a given charge rate, get greater acceleration and hill-climbing capabilities, get less voltage drop and less battery heating and thus longer life.

Any increase in battery discharge rate is undeniably GOOD. However, since they're more capable of putting out more power, you can expect more fireworks with accidental shorting. :eek:
 
swbluto said:
the point is so that one could charge more quickly, have the batteries last longer at a given charge rate, get greater acceleration and hill-climbing capabilities, get less voltage drop and less battery heating and thus longer life.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is exactly it. You don't want to run electronics at the ragged edge if you want them to last. If a battery can charge at a max of 2c, and live up to 1000 cycles, it's not going to give 1000 cycles at 2c. 90C means even the most hardcore ebiker is never going to get anywhere near the limit these batteries can handle, and 10c charge means the same. Now the limit is your hardware, and you don't have to worry about abusing the batteries hitting them with everything you've got
 
liveforphysics said:
This is a beautiful day for the RC world, and folks into racing-types of EVs.

This makes building an EV dragster possible with an entire battery sized to fit in a normal backpack. :) :) :)

..put it out there for prices that everday Joe can afford for his RC projects.
Click to expand...

This is the first time I've done my standard "how many cells will it take to max out a Zilla 2k EHV" (2000A @ 348v)....and I've gotten a result under $10k

The pack would weigh 142 pounds. (.64 megawatts, or ~900 electrical HP)
 
Get the cycle life up to 2000 cycles and you are going to have to use 5-10 cycles a day to use em up in two years if the shelf life doesn't improve. Took me almost two years to get 500 cycles on my first ping. And I have riding weather 12 months a year. So a lifespan in the 10 year range is what is really needed for big vehicles. Nobody want's to buy the big battery every two years.

Actually, 500 cycles is just about right for bikes, by two years you want to move on to the new thing. It'll take me years to use up two pings now. The low price for really spectacular cells, and how it drives down the price of cheaper stuff is what is getting exiting. I can't see needing more than 30 c for a normal bike. But 90c for racing sure sounds sweet!
 
Another thing I've noticed is the higher the C-rating, the closer they seem to stay balanced. I haven't specifically tested for this trait, but generally, with my packs, this seems to be the case.

-- Gary
 
That makes dog sense to me. Cells under little stress stay balanced better in general. Used to be we just needed bigger capacity to get that, now we can have it in a tiny pack.
 
Hobbycity has added some more of these new packs....now in 6000mah

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11940&Product_Name=Turnigy_nano-tech_6000mah_4S_25~50C_Lipo_Pack

But the 6ah are only 25-50c. I wonder why the 90C discharge doesn't scale? Also shows 5C charging instead of 10C.
 
As cells get larger length and width, they never scale up the same, unless they use thicker foils inside, which means lower energy density. This is because the current being collected on the far sides of the cell of course have to move a longer distance across the cell to exit at the terminal location.

Every pack I had seen so far capable of >80c burst discharge used no larger than 2.5Ah cells to make the pack. These 5Ah 45-90C cells are claiming specs as high as I've ever seen for LiPo, they are doing it at a very fair price, and unlike so many other cell brands, HobbyCity LiPo has a track history of out-performing rated specs on capacity and C-rate.

This is very exciting :) Wana make a 500hp EV dragster?
Now its just 56 of the 4s5Ah packs away. Cost of $4210, and all the packs together weighs 72lbs!!!

And that would run you as many quarter mile runs as you could fit into a day at the track with no-recharge needed.

5 years ago... if you weren't on a massive sponsor, your only option for under $5grand in batteries for a race car would be lead, and your performance would be crippled by that.

This brings some badass performance potential down to everyday joe-racer budget levels. Hell, lots of guys with sub 500hp drag cars spend more than $5,000 a season just in fuel system upgrades, engine tuning costs, race fuel, etc. All expenses you wouldn't have with an EV. For the first time, it might actually be cheaper for everyday Joe with no sponsorship to build and race an EV over a gasoline powered car.
 
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