NCTE Torque Sensor with CA3.1

pasifae

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Dec 27, 2021
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Can anyone help troubleshooting a NCTE BB with CA 3.1?

Grin setup instructions show set CA to Thun BB with 8 PAS poles & 5v=Fwd but when looking at CA display 'SETUP PAS DEVICE' toggling frequency of P & D arrows suggest it has significantly more than 8 poles?

Also CA 'SETUP PAS DEVICE' shows live PAS toggling and torque response to left hand crank but CA display 3 shows 0 Rpm when spinning crank in both directions.

CA firmware currently at CA3-15b3

Any clues to how to move forward, much appreciated.
 
You should be able to simply choose NCTE BB from the list of sensors (depends on the firmware version you have) in the PASD-Sensr Type menu. I don't know if the 3.15beta firmware you're using has this in it or not, but it should be in the 3.14 (latest stable known-good release, AFAIK).

It's also possible there's a bug in that beta version causing the problem(s) you're seeing. You can test this by writing down your existing setup parameters so you don't lose them and reflashing the CA to 3.14 with the USB-serial cable (if you have that), then resetting up the CA with your setup. (I don't know how well backing up and restoring the settings with the CA setup program will work between different firmware versions).

Some cadence sensors only respond to forward motion, but they should respond to pedal motion on either side since it's the same shaft and the sensor spins regardless. I don't remember what the one in the NCTE does. I used to use a THUN but don't remember what the cadence sensor did, only that the torque was only on the left side (but it did respond to cadence from either side, since that only requires the shaft to be rotating, and that goes all the way thru).

Does this:
Also CA 'SETUP PAS DEVICE' shows live PAS toggling and torque response to left hand crank but CA display 3 shows 0 Rpm when spinning crank in both directions.
mean that it responds when in the setup menu only, but not when in the regular Display #3 – Human Power screen after exiting setup and rebooting the CA to load the new settings? Does the little "crank" icon still show the pedals going up and down?

If so, it sounds like either there is a bug in the 3.15b firmware, or there is

If the NCTE has enough more poles than the CA can really work with (24?) then they may have chosen 8 as the best divisor for the actual number of poles vs what the CA can keep track of. (just a guess, since there are cadence-only sensors around that you have to do this with).
 
Many thanks amberwolf for the detailed response.

Good news is that I am now up and running (bench testing) with the NTCE setup - road trials and tuning to come.

As suggested I updated CA firmware to 3.14 but I also checked the box for 'reset settings to defaults', the RPM display would now display when spinning crank backwards. Because I had made 2 changes (3.14 + defaults) I then updated back to 3.15beta + defaults and the CA also continued to respond to backward spinning of crank. This suggests I had messed up another setting and any potential bug wasn't specific to 3.15beta firmware.

There is a possible bug with the polarity related to the documentation provided:
The Grin documentation provided with my NCTE BB says to set PAS Device to 'Thun BB', when using a preset PAS Device (Thun or NCTE) my understanding is that the CA reverts to default parameters including 'Polarity 5v = Reverse'. Changing the polarity field to 'Forward' appears to be ignored when using the recommended/default preset PAS Devices.
In my case I solved this by swapping the Blue & Brown wires in the JST connector, I assume an alternative solution would be using the 'Custom TRQ' option in the PAS Device selection allowing manual selection of 'Polarity 5v = Forward'.

Regarding PAS Poles:
The NCTE datasheet from the manufacturer mentions 32 poles
https://ncte.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Bicyclesensor_EN_S-BB-RT.pdf
When I slowly rotate the crank with the 'SETUP PAS DEVICE' displayed I can count 32 toggles of the D&P crosses.
But - if I setup the CA software using 'Custom TRQ' and '32 pulses/rev' the RPM (display 3) reads 15RPM when spinning the crank at 60RPM. Using the settings for Thun BB with 8 poles (Grin documentation) the RPM looks correct on the CA, so all good but interested to know if the NCTE BB is 8 or 32 pole (hardware) or is this an incompatibility with the CA and 32 pole PAS devices?
 
It's been quite a while since I checked, but at one time the CA only supported up to 24 poles due to some limitation in memory space for variables, I think. It's in the CAv3 beta thread by Justin_LE but that's a really long thread, and the only term out of all this that you can search it with is "poles" or "pole" (all the other terms are even more common, and/or not searchable by the PHPBB search engine (too short, or numeric)). Lots of hits even with that.
 
I found the thread, thanks again, it would appear the CA should support PAS sensors up to 32 poles.

From Justin (the historic thread on CA v3 beta)
"At the time that this was initially coded the max PAS sensor available on the market was 24 poles, so 32 seemed like a decent margin."
 
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