[nearly original] An update on what I know from my end

[jonathanm]

How about help Trevor look at his contract of sale with knightMB and see if there is anywhere that knightMB has breached his representations and warranties.

If he has done that, and Trevor were to sue him, and Trevor actually had the forum population behind him as proof that knightMB misrepresented the asset..... then it would be very much in knightMB's interests to return to the negotiating table.

 

[GGoodrum]

+1 for what BigMoose just said. I'd just as soon move whatever archive stuff we can to Justin's ebikes.com domain, and move forward with a new phpBB-based forum.

"This cat won't bounce." :lol: This must be a midwest saying because I know I'm every bit as old as you are, and I've never heard that one before.

-- Gary

 

[nicobie]

I had an old boss that once said, "If you throw enough shit on the wall, something will stick" Of course you do end up with a shitty wall.

If the guy wont part with this joint for a reasonable AND affordable price... I say stiff him. It's not like he wasn't ready to stiff us. Time for the golden rule?

 

[bigmoose]

I am no lawyer, but I do not think we have the legal right to the data base. Remember the old rely net lawsuit with dustin and that other guy? It resolved around some of these issues, but they are couched in a lot of legaleze which I don't excel at.

Get written permission for Trevor that we can load the data base as a read only locked forum. And we will start anew with a new forum with proper organization like tomorrow.

Based on your assessment that Trevor is honorable, I wish him no harm. He bought a piranha, thinking it was a pretty fish. But if this sale was $50K we can't swing that and not recoup it. We can't make him whole. We also have no right to destroy his forum. We do have the right to leave. We should understand he is the legal owner of the forum. Legally give us the archive and we will play nice, like my sister treats me...

It is like buying a used car. I think the legal term is caveat emptor or "Let the buyer beware". If there was no warranty, then Trevor owns this mess. I don't like it, but ethics don't matter, it is law. knightmb sold it, if the terms were caveat emptor, then Trevor owns this cat. End of story. Business is full of risks, ask any of us that put up our own money daily, like you do methy.

Let's get firm legal rights to the data archive and move on. Let the traffic go where it may. We may fail and be back. Then I'll buy Trevor a beer.

We may both thrive, which is what I think will happen. He will serve those consumers that are not technology developers. We are technology developers and cannot have a high signal to noise ratio, he can have a lot of noise and prosper. In fact that is what he needs to succeed.

We are deadlocked right now, how you get out of deadlock, is comprimise. Keep our core values (technology, and high signal to noise ratio), he needs to keep a functional forum and monetize it to recoup his investment. We don't get everything, he doesn't get everything. The other solution is Mutual Assured Destruction. We burn the forum to the ground and no one wins. If Trevor will GIVE us legal rights to the data base, we are golden and have our IP; and in return we will not burn the forum to ashes and allow him to operate off the current data base. Basically let him have the archival IP and it will be on both boards. His active, ours read only. If he doesn't agree we purge all our posts on his board, like a few others and myself already did.

Time to move forward... We all have work to do, and want to do.

 

[deVries]

It would be safe to assume it is tens of thousands. Unfortunately Trevor bought out the domain Endless-Sphere which appeared to have much more value than our little forum.

Does anyone think we can pay that amount? Is there a benevolent dictator or angel willing to do this?

Yeah, but Trevor wants to use it for Electric Vehicles...

 

[jonathanm]

There could definitely be grounds for Trevor to sue.

Caveat Emptor only goes so far. Buying businesses is not the same as buying a car.

If the seller misrepresented the asset this is fraud.

KnightMB misrepresented the sale by including intellectual property he did know actually own.

I am not a lawyer, but If I was Trevor I would be on the phone to his first thing tomorrow morning.

I would expect that his lawyer could find multiple grounds on which to bring a case against knightMB.

EDIT: or actually, MAYBE he did. This is why the nature of the contract of sale is important here.

 

[Miles]

Given the subsidies sloshing around in other areas of EV tech. even $50k is small change.....

 

[deVries]

From BigMoose: Based on your assessment that Trevor is honorable, I wish him no harm. He bought a piranha, thinking it was a pretty fish. But if this sale was $50K we can't swing that and not recoup it. We can't make him whole. We also have no right to destroy his forum. We do have the right to leave. We should understand he is the legal owner of the forum. Legally give us the archive and we will play nice, like my sister treats me...

We could put copyright notices in our sigs... I don't think he can win that battle to transer our IP to somewhere else.

I don't like it that Trevor is AWOL & has never been forthcoming & cooperative in the sense he needs to be, imo. Certainly not on the ES Forum.

 

[nicobie]

Hi Big M,

It's not likely that he would be able to sue members who delete their posts here then re-post them at the new joint. He would have too many targets. It would take too many lawyers/$ too.

If he is to sell us use of the data base, it better be for cheap. Time to make him a firm low offer, see what he says, then get on with what we know is going to happen anyway.

-methods, I haven't thanked you for what you have, and still are doing for awhile. Thanks. If it matters at all, my opinion of you has gone up a notch or so for the fine work you have done these last couple of days.

Thanks again!

Nick

 

[methods]

I agree with everything bigMoose said.... except

I will never leave my IP here to be profited from. I will troll this area until the end of time protecting our homeland. No one will EVER profit form this land... this is DEAD LAND. You can not grow anything here... I have salted the earth.

So.. that is a non starter :wink:

-methods

 

[deVries]

Well, Trevor is online now reading our posts, Last visited: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:07 pm, BUT will Trevor start communicating with us now today Sunday & communicate openly with everyone on the forum how he plans or offers to resolve this

Details please :wink:

 

[bigmoose]

Gent's I am not an attorney, let's get that understood right off the bat. However in my 35 years I have been in corporate "situations" with those guys in the $2000 suits. It is not pleasant, even when you win...

I do not think there is legal recourse against a member for adding, editing or removing post content.

Some of you know that I put up a shell board on my corporate server to learn phpBB and "just in case." In the time that expired, others with a lot more IT experience than I came forward with offers to host a replacement board, and I rightly deferred to them. (Just so no one thinks I was trying to snag the board...! me!) But one person on the periphery (who didn't have the copy) asked if I would load an archival copy of ES phpBB data onto my board. My answer was NO. Reason was that Trevor owns that data, in my opinion.

You may ask why Trevor owns that data, well I did not (c) copyright my IP when I posted it on his board. Therefore I cant sue for it, I can remove it however. There was likely fine print in the sign up agreement to this board that says I lost my rights... I will have to do a phantom new ID so I can read the fine print and check it. Hopefully a mod will not ban me for seeking two id's.

Logic and morals I have found do not equate to law. I have been in IP lawsuits between contractors before. I'm jaded. I'm not an attorney. There has to be one that is a member to give us some advice. Frankly, I don't know if an attorney can give advice freely, if they say they are an attorney... what a profession!

 

[methods]

As I understand it (from insider info) Trevor has no legal right to our data. The papers were not drawn up proper way back in the day.

Regardless.... I have no fear of lawyers. My house is $100k upside down, I am deeply in debt, my cars are wrecks, and I have nothing that another man on this planet could take from me or use as leverage against me. If I choose to copy the information on this site (in even a text format) no one will be able to do anything about it... EVER

You fellas are looking at a man who fears nothing.
LFP -> Another man who has no fear.

Our papa - BigMoose... he is a more careful guy. Luke and I are his wild sons. We love his advice but there will be a balance.

-methods

 

[bigmoose]

GEN Methods... I understand. The best team has grey beards and wisdom; and vibrant men with vigor, strength and valor! But think a bit about the compromise. You said Trevor was not evil. Let us consider a way out for him and us with honor. You may have to scrub your IP like I did. It get's easy after 20 pages, the mouse clicks become automatic. Perhaps we could run a script on the server to purge IP.

I don't know how big this "big sum" is. That is the problem with our alternatives. Perhaps Trevor, since he is online, would join in this dialogue. Perhaps he could give us a "range" for the cost and not violate his agreement. Perhaps... Without the dollar value, we cannot tell how much pain Trevor will have to hold with a walk away, he may have to take the risk with scorched earth. I am trying, here in the open (which is bad tactics) to see if there is ANY middle ground.

PS: You are right, you and/or Luke would be the right guy to own the Pirate Board Server Account if there are "issues." Those of us that need to ensure there are funds for the nursing home and 3x8 foot plot for us are more "careful."

I like your idea of balance. We will find it. We could get there quicker with Trevor participating.

 

[nicobie]

As I understand it (from insider info) Trevor has no legal right to our data. The papers were not drawn up proper way back in the day.


-methods

If that's true, screw the negotiations and and lets go on our merry way. (after burning this place down)

If everybody does their part and deletes their useful posts there won't be any suing going on. Who could he sue?

 

[recumpence]

One major problem with this is the HUGE amount of spewing that has occured and is now being countered with opposite statements by the people who were spewing. There have been a few people who have been crazy attackers of Trevor who are, now, backing down with seemingly nice words. This disturbs me.

Why is it so difficult to hold the tongue and be reasonable and assume the best until all the facts are known? I know at least one person who defended Trevor until everyone else attacked him for two days straight, then he went on the offensive. Now he feels bad that he ever defended Trevor. Now, on this thread, many are moving over to the right and taking the high road defending Trevor (or at least sympathizing with him).

So which is it? Is he a monster or a victim?

We all need to take a deep breath and look at things as objectively as possible while this mess is resolved.

Matt

 

[methods]

Ok guys... Justin is out of contact for the day. Luke is too.
I am picking up some bad vibes...

Guys - kick "Plan B" into high gear.
Dig for those old un-corrupted pictures... if we are going to start over I want the database to be better than this one.
Dont bother deleting anything!!! There are backups on top of backups... it does no good.
But get to copying those pictures off of hard drives, old history, etc.

We have several copies of the database but it has the corrupted image issue.

Go to ebikes.ca if the server goes down - Justin will put directions to our new home in his blog

I had a nice open dialog with Trevor going and then all of a sudden it was like he was possessed by the spirit of a middle manager. He answer with a 1-liner that was right out of the movie "Office Space" and went silent. I am not mad at him - I understand he is under great stress.

This is just RED ALERT... not nuclear.... Be on the ready guys

-methods

 

[methods]

No Matt
This was not about "someone" defending Trevor. This is about "someone" pushing to monetize the site along side Trevor.

Dont mix up the interpersonal Trevor stuff with the ethical stuff.

-methods

EDIT: Matt was part of a private PM that you guys did not see where a member of the mod squad made an apology and offered to resign.

One major problem with this is the HUGE amount of spewing that has occured and is now being countered with opposite statements by the people who were spewing. There have been a few people who have been crazy attackers of Trevor who are, now, backing down with seemingly nice words. This disturbs me.

Why is it so difficult to hold the tongue and be reasonable and assume the best until all the facts are known? I know at least one person who defended Trevor until everyone else attacked him for two days straight, then he went on the offensive. Now he feels bad that he ever defended Trevor. Now, on this thread, many are moving over to the right and taking the high road defending Trevor (or at least sympathizing with him).

So which is it? Is he a monster or a victim?

We all need to take a deep breath and look at things as objectively as possible while this mess is resolved.

Matt

 

[bigmoose]

Matt makes some very good points, worthy of consideration.

Explanation may be "the fog of war..."

On my blatherings into legal matters, here is the only clause we all agreed to that I think has relevance:

...You agree that “Endless-sphere.com” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “Endless-sphere.com” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised...

I think we all agreed to this to get our user ID for ES.

 

[bigmoose]

No qualms for me, I believe we need to and should MOVE ON.

To Justin at ebikes.ca THANKS for the soon to be relished welcome!!!

 

[nicobie]

.
I am picking up some bad vibes...

Guys - kick "Plan B" into high gear.
Dig for those old un-corrupted pictures... if we are going to start over I want the database to be better than this one.
Dont bother deleting anything!!! There are backups on top of backups... it does no good.
But get to copying those pictures off of hard drives, old history, etc.

-methods

You are right. I had forgotten about trevor having complete back ups that we can't mess up.

Also, for those of you that host your ES pics on photo bucket etc.etc., be ready when the time comes to make them private or move them to a new folder that ES can't access.

 

[Gordo]

I see this deal as simple;
Andy put it together for a commission?
Trevor bought a pig in a sack.
KnightMB got the bulk of the cash.
End of story.

I have had the bad judgement to make several 6 figure mistakes in my life. So what? The game is to make one more good deal than bad.
All of the so valuable archived information, which we have not lost, under any circumstance, is still in your heads. Most of it get posted again every time a newbee asks a question, without doing a search. This is not rocket science. It is a motor, battery and a couple of other components. The first one took me most of the day to build, because I new nothing about a bicycle. The second one took 45 minutes. From there, you can get as complicated as your funds allow.
Move the server to a new site. Use PBS TV as an example of how to fund it and run it.
We owe nothing to anyone for the bad judgement or misrepresentation (if there was any) that took place. It is all very nice to feel sorry for "poor Trevor." Poor Trevor was about to rape us. Get that through your heads.
It is my understanding that the internet was supposed to connect the world, share resources and serve the people. At first it did. Then along came a bunch of pimps who figured out how to personally profit from it. This pimping of wares is now the accepted norm. Every other forum I have ever belonged to has driven me away with their abuse of my time. I have a PVR on my TV and skip through all adds. ES is the only place on the internet left for me, that I don't get assaulted on. I'm willing to pay for this.

I defer to Big Moose and those in the thick of it to find a solution, but I would not waste one minute or one dollar on this non-problem. MOVE and I will put my money where my mouth is.

 

[chroot]

+1 Bigmoose's comment, Screw this, just move new server at Justin's domain and less hassle.

 

[grindz145]

I feel like I'm in the midst of a breakup, and lady endless-sphere was considering not dumping my ass...but now shes back on the warpath. I seriously haven't slept well haha.

Anyway, no more messing around, My shit is packed, ready to up and leave.

I will miss those soft endless-sphere lithium curves though, and the late-night sweet hall-effect nothings.

 

[StudEbiker]

Bummer. The Sphere is dead ...... long live the Sphere!