Need Advise For E-bike

dogman dan

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Las Cruces New Mexico USA
For a freewheeling motor, one of the popular choices is a motor with internal gears and freewheel. Bafang, BMC, Ezeee, and Fusin are examples. The choice of which one is determined by three main factors, wallet size , hill steepness and length, and speeds desired. More money for motor and battery gets you up steeper hills faster.

If the hills are not so steep, like under 7% and not miles and miles long, then the less expensive options work fine, like the fusin kit I just started testing. A 36v, 350 watt gearmotor, it climbs fine, but super steep hills stall it, though it still provides noticable assist if you climb a really steep hill pedaling hard. But above 5% or so, it does struggle, so if you have steeper stuff, you want the 48v 500 watt version of the kit.

Top of the line, a newly introduced 1000 watt BMC gearmotor will need a more expensive battery to power it, but would be expected to zoom up just about anything paved.

In the middle, the Ezee kit sold by the excellent vendor ebikes-ca is high quality and a great package for the money, especially in wet climates.

In most cases where the motor is used the whole ride, a battery bigger than 10 ah is needed for a 20 mile ride. You will find yourself pedaling less once you strap 20- 30 more pounds to the bike. A 48v 15 ah lifepo4 battery would be plenty, or a 36v 20 ah that has the same ammount of cells. Before ya''ll jump on me again, I'm talking 20 mile ride WITH a healthy reserve so the battery will last longer.

If you can ride 10 miles, charge at work? and ride back 10 miles, the kits with a 10 ah battery will work fine, or use the motor just on the hills till you get a second battery.
 
While a Bionx motor does not freewheel, it provides what is called "proportional power assist" that no other electric kit on the market at the moment even come close full time. It is this proportional power assist that provides the artificial freewheeling effect when you ride on the flats until you hit about 20 miles/hr. It does suck a bit of power, but not a big deal. On my Dahon Mu SL and a 250W 24 NiMH battery, I managed to get about 65km before the battery went dead and that involves going up 5 hills (2 of them 8% grade) and some re-gens. Regeneration does not work too well on short trips, but works better on longer trips with more downhill. But I do weigh slight less, less than 150lbs, so that helps a bit on the hills too perhaps. The only downside with Bionx is that, you do need to pedal somewhat like a normal bike to make it really worthwhile to invest and extend the battery range. As a purely power assist option, I would agree with Dogman that a geared front hub would be an excellent choice -- eZee kit, Bafang, BMC. If you choose the power assist option, you will eventually ride your bike like a moped -- trust me on this as I've seen SO MANY e-bike cyclists with their powerful motors go past by me at 20miles/hr not pedaling and running a variation of motors and this is because, you will be spinning madly trying to keep up with the motor. And you want to arrive at work sweat free, which is kind of difficult if you just came back from a spinning class. Unless of course you modified your bike with larger chain rings and smaller cogs, but then you will then get less lower gears for normal pedaling unless you've got Lance Armstrong legs. I tried many e-bikes out there before I settled on the Bionx and for a pedal cyclist point of view, the Bionx is clearly superior because you can regulate how much effort you want to put into the system and the system automatically assist the right amount of motor power -- automatic cruise control. Otherwise, if you go with a manual power assist option, you will need to regulate your own power assist "manually". Besides, don't forget about headwind as they are just as nasty as hills, so you'll be twisting that throttle control continually to power the same proportional power assist like the Bionx system does.

Although I'm looking into getting a geared motor hub for my other commuter, which is going to be used mainly for short haul trips, the Bionx is addictive because it really gets you out cycling and a good workout when you get off work!
 
If I seemed to knock bionx, it's the price. I'd own one if i could afford it though. It takes discipline and concentration to perfectly match motor speed and pedlaling cadence. They say the bionx makes it easy. On the gearmotors I've had, I find I tend to ride pulse and glide, but the varying cadence can hammer your legs on a long ride. It gets tempting to just ride all pedal, or all motor. The dedicated pedalers do seem to prefer the gearmotors from what I have read here, or bionx. Zoot is a notable exception to that, but he is such a pedaler that pushing a cogging direct drive doesn't faze him a bit.
 
As for me, I'm not a fan of Bionx for 2 reasons.
The first being its all propriatary. If the battery dies, you have to replace it with a Bionx battery. Need a new controller? Bionx only, ect.
The other problem is the limit of controll you have. True, its seamless, but some times its nice, and occasionaly nessassary to just be able to turn a throttle and ride along with no effort. Since taking up ebiking I've brioken a chain, a derailer, thrown out my back a few times, and hurt both my knee and ankle. all of which would have left me stranded, calling for a ride with a Bionx. Because I have a Clyte, I was able to ride home on the motor only.

As for your weight, I would recomend a bigger motor than the 350watt Bionx, and for sure a geared motor. Gearing gives better torque at the cost of some top end efficancy, and has a freewheel.
Best gear motors for your weight and the hills would probably be the BMC 400 and 600. 36 volts is usualy fine for cruising on flat ground, but for hill climbing, I would want a 48 volt system. 10 amp hours will be fine for your use, since you plan to pedal most of the time.
 
Wow, I didn't realize there is so much negativity towards Bionx.

Ok, let's clear some misconception about the system. First of all, 2009 models come with throttle control in conjunction with the proportional power assist feature, so that you can ride home fully assisted. The only models that did not come with this throttle control was the original P-250 and the PL-250 up until early 2008 as an optional feature. Very late 2008 models, however became as standard feature as mine has one. Secondly, the system is proprietary because it is not simply a controller, computer, battery and hub arrangement, but rather a combination of conventional electric system with I suspect a built in power meter to measure the pedal power output of a cyclist (known as the strain gauge), much like an SRM crank or a Cyclops Power Tap rear hub. These are not new technologies, but they aren't cheap either. If you google either of them for a price, you will find that they aren't cheap -- try $1200 US for the Cyclops Power Tap economical setup, and that in itself doesn't come with a battery, hub motor and battery!! The expensive part is the strain gauge and the electronics that come with it.

Another misconception is the way the system works and I don't believe the description on http://www.ebike.ca is correct. It described it as an automatic electric assist system as opposed to the eZee which is manual assist. Here's a problem, how can you tell how much power you are putting out on the pedals so you can determine the correct manual assist while still keeping some resistance on the pedals? You really need to know your gear charts well. I tried it on the conventional system and it is difficult, but not impossible! You just can't and that's why, stuff like SRM and Power Tap are still being sold to train cyclists to become better cyclists. Even Lance Armstrong trains with a power meter!!

The idea of automatic assist or manual assist is simply this. In the Bionx auto assist, the power output of the cyclist is measured via the strain gauge in "watts" and then the computer system determines the level of assistance necessary and adds its own motor power. Say a relatively unfit cyclist can only put out 50watts of his or her own power and if the system is setup to provide a huge multiplier like 200% to 300%, the system can provide an additional motor power of up to 250watts (on the P250) or 350watts (on the PL-350) for a total of 300 watts or 400 watts. As you can see in this picture, the system provides a proportional assist to the output of the cyclist via pedal effort or pressure. A fitter cyclist can usually generate 100watts to 200watts easily of his or her own power. An elite cyclist can generate 300watts or perhaps higher in shorter intervals. The problem with this setup is with inexperienced cyclists who also happens to be pedal mashers! Pedal mashers are people who put the most pedal power stroke on the top down phase of the pedal stroke, usually past the 1 o'clock and close to 2 o'clock mark. As dogman described, this gives the pulsing and gliding effect of the Bionx system. But you DO NOT NEED a Bionx system to achieve this. A regular poorly trained cyclist does this anyhow with a conventional bike. Perhaps the tell tale sign of knee and ankle injuries are a result of poor bike posture and fitting rather blaming squarely on the system itself. May I suggest people with cycling injuries visit Sheldon Brown's website and understand what cycle fitting is.
The Bionx system works well with cyclists who can pedal smoothly in a circle and this helps maintain consistent power proportional assist, albeit with some occasional cogging effect from the hub itself. However, the system starts to shine if you are providing even more pedal effort in watts. If you are providing more watts for forward motion, the system eventually will put out less (it shows it on the graphical display) and this has the effect of conserving battery power. Whereas with a manual system, you will be using the motor power more because it's simply human nature to find the path of least resistance and motor power does that! The Bionx system, unlike other manual systems, still require the cyclists to do some pedaling. This form of resistance exercise is what keeps a cyclist fit. In fact, I was a pretty fit cyclist, but when I got the Bionx system and overused its throttle system because it's just so easy to get free speed, within 4 weeks of usage, I was struggling heavily once I got off the electric bike and onto my carbon race bike. You can become unfit as soon as you rely on a motor. And soon, you'll want an even more powerful motor to go faster. To me, it's nothing more than a glorified electric motorbike or moped and this is exactly mirrored in the sentiment of conventional cyclists. A cyclist with a bike and a 600w motor and a 48v or 72v battery is no longer a cyclist, but rather a passenger. This would explain why as motor power get stronger and more powerful is the tendency for people to go full suspension, cushy tires and suspension seatpost simply because, the pedaling forces aren't there to support your posture and or structure. Instead of using a musculature posture to ride the bike, you'll end up with a skeletal posture (sitting). You may get a lot of injuries like neck pain, shoulder pain, back pain near the Thoracolumbar Fascia, glutes pain, knee pain and ankle pain. A bicycle itself wasn't meant to be ridden sitting down with no pedaling forces and you simply can't pedal that hard anyhow with the gearing which was designed for a normal cyclist without motor assist.

Therefore, from a pure cycling stand point, the Bionx system is really the only automatic system that works well. It is not to say that a geared system or even a brushless DC system isn't good, it is just that as soon as you ADD a motor, hub and so forth, you are bolting on an additional 20 to 30lbs of weight, which is very noticeable as soon as you start hitting a hill. You will use the motor power more on a manual system because it is difficult to find the right rhythm from a combination of gears and throttle control, but if you can do that, then you are already a pretty good cyclist and you don't need a motor. The thing with reliance on a bike and motor is that, you want more motor power because like a car culture, we want more horsepower. Which means, you want more watts, more higher voltage, better controllers and these systems are not feather weight. It becomes more of a electric motor cycle and if this is what some people want, then it is what they will get. But please differentiate the difference between some one who wants total power assist and speed assist to someone who is looking to maintain a certain level of high fitness and wants to pedal but need the assist occasionally up a hill and getting to work relatively sweat free. In my part of town, the dedicated pedalers ride Bionx and my local dealer outsold Bionx all the time compared to the eZee geared hub. I rarely see the eZee system, but I saw one or two along some of our bike path. And I think I saw Zoot a few weeks ago in Vancouver, cycling along West 64th and stopped at Cartier st riding his Xtra cycle with a Cylte 5304? He looked at me, perhaps because I was riding my Dahon Mu SL with the Bionx.

Cheers,

David.
 
Still too expensive. It should run easily on any battery of correct voltage too. But it has it's virtues. I'm finding it a bit tricky to get used to street riding a gear motor. I keep tending to overpedal and then I'm doing the work while the motor spins away in there doing no good but using power. I'll get better at it with practice, but the bionx makes it easy to get "assist" where a direct drive motor and throttle tends to work more like a moped for lots of people.

The pulse and glide method I mentioned comes from hypermilers in cars. They pulse with the motor to get up to speed, and then turn the motor off, and glide , coasting as far as possible. The same thing works really well with electric cars, or bikes. With a gearmotor, run up to the fastest possible speed, coast awhile, then when you can keep up in your highest gear, pedal till you get tired. Then use the motor again. On my gearmotor bikes, this is about a 30 second cycle, with the motor running about 10 seconds. It can be very efficient, but the short sprints on the pedals get tiring. It's much easier to pedal a constant cadence on really long rides, and easier to do that with a direct drive motor that runs constantly. Each type of motor has its niche depending on the ride and the rider.

I totally agree about the riding posture and pedaling. Riding just a few miles without pedaling will put my entire lower half to sleep. I don't want a bike motor I can't keep up with on the pedals, so my commuter has a 58 tooth front sprocket. Even when going 30 mph I can pedal hard at a tolerable but fast cadence. Other bikes I just ride slower, matching throttle to gearing. Or do the pulse and glide, so I pedal enough to be comfortable. I don't understand wanting an uncomfortable motorcycle that looks like a bike. Oh well, another thread hijacked again.
 
So how much is a 36V Li-Mn ~10Ah replacement battery for a Bionx system these days?
The last time I looked it was $950 and up. It's a closed system so you'd have to hack
into it to use a 3rd party alternative. A replacement battery for the eZee kit with the
same chemistry (Li-Mn), voltage and amp-hours is $467 at cycle9.com and $550 at ebikes.ca.
If you don't like the standard battery, any 36V battery capable of delivering 20A
continuous with matching power connectors would work just fine with the eZee kit.

With regard to manual assist, when riding my bike with eZee kit, if my legs feel a
little tired or I just want to go a bit faster I just twist the little thingie on the right
handlebar a bit more. I don't have to think about it.

Joey
 
Absoulutely test ride if you can. There may not even be one bionx in New Mexico, but if you have access ride one for sure, ride em all. By expensive, I don't mean not worth the money, just more money than I have avaliable. My commuter bike was not cheap either, but I'll race a bionx kit anytime for speed and distance and win.
 
When I first looked into e-biking and did some web searching I came across the Bionx system on a Montague folding bike at greenspeed.us. I thought that was what I should get and I asked about it at the tidalforce forum in the uk. This was many months before I found endless-sphere. They mentioned it was a closed system and "allergic to hills" and suggested that I consider other options. They were comparing its performance to the venerable tidalforce wavecrest adaptive motor. Also, I think they were addicted to the hill climbing capability of the BMC/Puma with which they were experimenting. The tidalforce technology was being sold to Matra in France at that time and there was no knowledge of how soon it would return to the US so they didn't suggest tidalforce to me. They suggested that I look at BMC type hub kits available in North America. I ended up going with an eZee front hub kit from ebikes.ca and have been very happy with it. My second one is more custom with BMC V2-T rear hub, 72V 36A Crystalyte analog controller, and Milwaukee Li-Mn toolpack batteries.

I don't know of anybody in New Mexico that sells or has a Bionx. Maybe dogman knows someone. I'd love to take a Bionx PL-350 for a spin sometime to see what it "feels like". Since I have not ridden one, I can only speak of costs and open versus closed architectures.

Joey
 
dogman said:
The pulse and glide method I mentioned comes from hypermilers in cars. They pulse with the motor to get up to speed, and then turn the motor off, and glide , coasting as far as possible. The same thing works really well with electric cars, or bikes. With a gearmotor, run up to the fastest possible speed, coast awhile, then when you can keep up in your highest gear, pedal till you get tired. Then use the motor again. On my gearmotor bikes, this is about a 30 second cycle, with the motor running about 10 seconds. It can be very efficient, but the short sprints on the pedals get tiring. It's much easier to pedal a constant cadence on really long rides, and easier to do that with a direct drive motor that runs constantly. Each type of motor has its niche depending on the ride and the rider.

I have a direct drive 9C motor and a geared Bafang motor and I don't ride any differently with one compared to the other, with each one I pedal all of the time and add throttle to provide assistance to go a little faster than I otherwise would and to level the peak loads of going uphill or into a headwind. Maximum efficiency is always going to be obtained by steady pedaling and the smooth application of throttle not by constantly accelerating up to top speed and coasting.

-R
 
Everyone has their own religion and I think that's cool. Every cyclists have their own religion too -- some believe a true biker is a mountain biker that leaps off 7 to 8ft drop off to prove manhood or girlhood, whereas some cyclists believe that you need to do a century (that's 100 miles/day) or Paris Brest Paris (1200km continous) to prove something and some cyclists ultimately believe an ebike should be something that has lots of power (400-600w or 1000w), Lipo battery, fancy setup and it's got to be fast because I feel great when I beat someone up the hill with lesser equipment of even on human power. I personally feel troubled by some of these individuals. You do not need to prove that you are a real cyclist or ebiker as long as you're out there riding whatever bike setup you want, but it's a good intention to set goals and complete them. If you want to climb an 8% grade hill at 45km/h which is not normal for a common human powered cyclist, so be it. I've done so much cycling and racing in the past that I don't really care if someone beats me to the light with a powerful 600w system. I just feel sorry for that individual who needs some fix to prove his hood.

Having said that, I think there is still a great misunderstanding of how a Bionx system works. The Bionx system is a full time electric assist system. It's not your manual pulse and ride by automatic controlled by the computer. You need to "ride" the bike to make the Bionx system work well and in that respect, it is not a speed demon as in the case of a lower power kit, it relies heavily on the rider's pedal output plus the motor output to give you the final output and you and the Bionx system work together in synergy. Let's say that on the hills, you are only will to put 50w and by gearing and the multiplier effect, the motor puts out 200w, the total power output needed to push you and the bike up that hill is 250watts. If you decide to put 100w on the flats by spinning the pedals, the system only need to put out 150w still achieving the same power output. If you are willing to put the majority of the pedal power like 200watts (that's a typical fit cyclist), then the system can opt to not supply any additional power and conserve the remaining battery. The effect of this is that, if a cyclist on the Bionx is strapped to a heart rate monitor, his or her heart rate will be relatively the same up the hill, on the flats and on the downhill, probably around aerobic zone (low to medium). Whereas with an non-Bionx system, your heart rate will be jumping up and down. I am not sure how one would be able to continually match electric power to your own human power up an 8% hill when your mind will suddenly click, hey look I've got a 400w eZee and then a simple twist on the throttle and you're up there. This is the difference. You do need to put some effort in the Bionx system to ride it and I would not highly recommend to people who simply want pure assist with no continuous cycling effort.

One last point that most people do not realize since most of you hadn't ridden a Bionx bike for long is that, it makes a relatively heavy bike feel light and nimble because of its proportional power assist. When I ride my Dahon Mu SL, it feels like I'm riding my carbon bike, even though I'm carrying panniers with my heavy gear, laptop and what not and that's where the addictive factor comes in. When you ride something like an eZee bike fitted kit, you know you're riding a heavy bike until you add the assist. You may not know it when you're riding on the flat, but as soon as you hit a slight incline, you know you've got more than 15lbs of stuff strapped on your bike unless you twist that throttle. The Bionx system is oblivious to the rider -- the rider never know it's there or the bike is as heavy as a boat anchor.
I can only recommend the Bionx kit to someone who like riding a bike, had ridden lots and wanting to make a heavy bike lighter than it is, then this is the kit for you. You must ride it to appreciate its unique ability. If you simply want pure speed and assist, then I agree with everyone that an eZee kit, Bafang, BMC or even a Cylite would do just fine. Geared hub is nice, but the truth is, the dealer here that sells both Bionx and eZee told me that he outsold Bionx kit more than eZee. And the latest P-250 Light (12lbs total) is very sweet!

Ok.. Now we shall discuss the battery situation. It's true that the lithium option is a bit expensive compared to a Ping battery or any other lithium sources. But their NiMH boxes aren't expensive and which is what I'm running with. Compared that with car maintenance and insurance which can run up to thousands of dollars every year, if you happen to own a POS Chrysler minivan or a GM equiv, then the battery situation isn't that expensive. Some people are willing to pay the price like some people stay in five or 6 star hotels and some people don't mind staying in Motel 8. There are options for everyone and there are no right options. And if you are a battery box owner, you can switch batteries, albeit you need to program the panel to reflect a different battery. That's what I've been told by my dealer. On my P-250, I can buy the expensive PL-350 battery and use it. I get an instant speed boost and mileage too if I ever wanted to. Or I can opt for the 24v lithium battery if I want to save 4 lbs of weight.

The point of the original discussion is this, which system is better for a pedal cyclist? And the answer to that I believe is the Bionx system if you are willing to exercise and you can tailor that exercise regimen to more effort (high cardio workout), medium effort, low effort and minimal effort all taken care of automatically by the computer. Can a cycle analyst do that? Can any system on the market do this?

I mean, the closest system you can probably do is buy a Cyclops Power Tap hub, lace it to your wheel size and then feed the Power Tap wires to the Cycle Analyst and program it to provide proportional power assist to any brainless system. Perhaps this would be a good aftermarket idea to compete against Bionx. Infact, I would LOVE to have this system because of its openess. But yikes, a Power Tap hub is like more than $1000 US to begin with. Ohhh.. I can see people shying away from this already.
 
The best advice I would give to a first time e-biker is to decide what you want the ebike to do for you. If you want your ebike to provide some assistance but you want to maintain the rideability of the bike as a bike then first start with a quality bicycle that fits you, preferably one you already own and which you enjoy riding, then add a lightweight geared hub motor and the smallest battery you can get by with. Bigger and faster isn’t the ideal situation, instead matching the power and speed to your ability is more important. My Bafang geared motor running on a small 6Ah LiMn 36V battery provides plenty of assistance for me to ride at an average speed of 16-17 mph for up to 32 miles or roughly 1 mph faster than I could ride the bike without the motor while at the same time leveling the load caused by hills and headwinds. The small battery keeps the incentive to pedal however monitoring the state of charge with a Watts-Up meter or Cycle Analyst becomes something of a necessity especially when pushing the battery limits. Of course if you’ve gone with the lightweight motor/battery/quality bike combination pedaling without power isn’t a huge chore. If you face monster hills on a regular basis then go for a higher torque motor but don’t go for higher speed. Riding an ebike that is capable of far higher speeds than you want to ride is something of a pain since so little throttle movement is required to maintain normal recreational cycling speeds. I have a direct drive motor that can do nearly 24 mph on a full charge (41V) on one bike and while I can ride it at an average speed of 17 mph it’s always begging to go faster.

For purely fitness/recreational riding I find riding faster only gets me home quicker, which isn’t really the point now is it? For me riding my ebike fast is fun but it also can be quite tiring. When I ride fast the adrenalin is pumping because at 20-25 mph things are happening quicker and I’m pumping hard to maintain the higher speeds. I’ve come home after an hour “thrill ride” absolutely spent and soaking wet. When I ride at normal cycling speeds, which for me is 16-17 mph on average, I’m more relaxed, I’m spinning along enjoying the ride and the scenery and two hour rides produce a “calm” sort of tired. For me there’s a place for each kind of ride which is why I have the two flavors of ebikes…along with a regular bike less than half the weight of the ebikes which I have yet to ride this season. :wink: If you want to ride quite a bit faster than you’re otherwise capable of for the sheer thrill of it or if the ebike is being used for transportation purposes rather than fitness/recreation then by all means go for a big motor and a big battery. I would still recommend starting with a quality bike but many folks have used low-end bikes with good results.


-R
 
How do the Bionx and the Giant differ? My wife has a Giant which is purely pedal assist, and as the Bionx is described they seem pretty much the same.
 
nutsandvolts said:
And if you spend a few hours trying to find that right spot where you are assisting the motor, by manual throttle movement, the motor will sing along at very low amps, but its hard to keep the throttle in that place, actually it's impossible. You have to constantly change the throttle to maintain that small window. :D

This is why I contend getting a motor that's close to your ability is a better way to go if assistance is what you want. With the 250W Bafang motor on 36V it's quite easy to use the throttle to provide the right amount of assist and just as you don't think much about what your right foot is doing when you're driving your car I don't think too much about what my left hand is doing with the throttle when I'm running with the little Bafang at 36V. Also since I usually ride into the wind while the battery is fresh and ride back with the wind when the battery is partially depleted the actual throttle position stays relatively constant with my brain doing the small corrections almost automatically. With the higher wound Nine Continent motor at 36V or with the Bafang at 48V maintaining the small throttle input for normal cycling speeds is more difficult. I run a modified potentiometer trigger throttle which allows me to make fine constant adjustments, something I'm not so sure I could do that with a twist or thumb throttle.

The BionX system was probably the first aftermarket motor kit I considered buying but I was put off by the price and the proprietary nature of the components. One day I might buy one, and one day I might buy a custom Rivendell bike too, but E-biking just like cycling in general for me isn't about only the riding but also about the bikes and components. I like trying different combinations and experimenting which makes the "a la carte" motors, controllers and batteries more desirable right now.

-R
 
Um...... I'm about to spend some really big bucks on a new trike and they show a Bionx attached to it as their example of electric assist. It looks well integrated and cool, but I have read a good bit and hear that their (Bionx's) works are proprietary and their customer service sucks! I bought another Bafang from John Rob Holmes and will use my Ping pack, thank you very much! Just an old ignorant guy speaking out! Ping and John Rob both have excellent support, and I can twiddle a throttle to engage the appropriate amount of assist to still get an aerobic workout!
otherDoc
 
I think the real great thing about the bionx is that you don't need to controll a throttle. Even with all my years on motorcycles, I never had to learn to match power with pedal power. It's harder than I expected it to be. On the first ebike, my commuter, I just solved the problem with a huge sprocket so I can pedal along with force at any speed the motor can do, even downhill.

On my EV global, before I sold it, the top speed was so low the gear range matched the motor fine. Most of the riding I did on it was on mountian trails running my dogs, so I would pedal in the lowest gear and give a squirt of throttle when I bogged down on a steep spot. So throttle controll was easy, using it like an on off switch.

My most recent motor, a small gearmotor similar to a bafang or eezee, is mounted on a comfort bike right now. At max speed the motor goes 23 mph, but the highest gear on the bike is good at about 16-18 mph. So now I need to work a lot harder on throttle controll. The type of throttle can make a difference with this. I was having a lot of trouble getting the hang of it this time with the full handle throttle the kit came with. ( all kits come with something you will hate) Yesterday I cut the handle in half and made it into a half twist throttle. Now I can hold the thing in place with a lot more precision to match the motor pull with my pedal pull at half throttle. Still takes a lot of concentration so it's harder to kick back, pedal along and enjoy the ride.

One real nice thing, that I hear is coming sooner or later to other brands, is this Fusin kit from World Wide Electric Bikes has a three speed switch. I find it much easier to match the speed of the bike I have it on when using the medium speed. But If I tire, get hurt, or whatever, I can flick a switch and motor home at 23 mph. If my battery is going to be too low to make it, I have the option of the low speed, which keeps me from blowing my watthours.
 
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