Need build guidance....full disclosure inside.p

[Desert RC]

Hello my name is Paul and I am an full blown electric bike addict already.

I just noticed that my first post was roughly 4 years ago...I honestly forgot. Long story short I lost interest before I got started. I felt the timing wasn't right for me where the industry was at the time.

Background - avid Custom RC Crawler/ basher Builder 10 years. So I have some electrical knowledge, sadly not nearly as much as I need for this realm I'm finding....I'm overwhelmed. Lol

About a month ago I walked into a local shop here in SLC Utah that sells turn key electric rigs. After a few test drives and a serious youthful flashback....I started selling my collection of RC Cars. Three days later bought a new Easy Motion Jumper FS mountain bike. I bought this fully knowing that I would ultimately build myself the ultimate or as close as money and experience would get. But patience is not my strongest trait...so the Jumper was a tide me over till the custom build completion bike. I love my bike...simple, no issues, great customer service. But now I want more.

I've been spending more time riding and loving the whole scene more than studying the future build path. Last week after a nice ride I took a spill....slippery road, too much tire pressure for the situation: broken hand and plenty of time to research now don't worry not even close to giving up. My wife even gave me the ultimatum...the bike or me, I said calmly that I love her and to remember this is her choice and if she were to stick to it I will wish her the best. We are still together HA!

Okay sorry for the dialog but I am excited to finally get going...and really introduce myself to you fine folks.

Big build ideas=

Terrian: utah is hilly but not crazy, no fat tire build for me either, want it to still look like a FS Bike. 60 street/ 40% trail...aspire for some rougher downhill stuff to bug mainly just a fantastic free ride all around bike.

Speed - 35mph ish goal with decent hill climbing ability...I don't mind pedaling to get there either...mainly will cruise the streets at our legal 20mph limits are fine.

Range-at least 20 miles with PAS trying to keep weight to a minimum . Hopefully more than 20 miles round trip at average cruise of 20mph

Rear Hub or mid-drive...I am more confused now more than ever with the options. Would like to keep it as much plug and play as possible. This is my first so let's go relatively easy and reliable. I was leaning towards a geared rear hub....but I dunno with all the slick mid drives I see now.

Suspension: definitely full suspension, looking hard at FS downhill bikes. But I really dont want to Frankenstein/hack-away a frame just yet. Once again want to go with a bike look rather than a Bomber style frame. I would like to get the right frame complete with the components that I need/want with upgrading the heck out of it. Or go cheaper bike and do a triple crown fork for suspension...I dunno. $2k-3k

My size: 5'11 with short legs. 235lbs

Electrics:
Now what I have...one night got a hair and bought this. I dunno if it's decent or crap....just thought it would get the build juices going. But honestly I would rather move it down the road then make it right with a ton of money. Definitely interested in thoughts on what to do with it. He'll it was cheap enough I recon.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291370694608?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Then there is the battery...I want to fabricate a hard case so the bag will go....but I pray this is a good purchase...not so cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331452719432?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


I know that there are more directions than I know what to do with. But I would love some experienced guidance on what you would feel comfortable spending your money on. I am not rich....but I want a nice capable FS ES bike

Spending power $5kish...if I have to sell the electrics I have and take a hit it's all good....don't want to back peddle later.

A few bikes I'm eyeing for the build possibilities. Looking for open triangle for battery placement in custom enclosure. Don't know how my current battery will fit...purdy big.

Norco FS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271773941268?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Giant FS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271750086626?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Another Giant best suitable triangle for current battery
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261272870615?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm ready to see what you guys think....we can go clean slate from scratch if need be no worries. In it to win it. I'm not too proud to buy the right bike compete either used or new. I'm open.

 

[Desert RC]

Oh I would like to definitely have a throttle and cruise would be cool too

 

[dogman dan]

Forget PAS, unless you invest in high tech pas from Grin.

The bike you are planning will actually be almost a motorcycle anyway, so go with a half twist throttle. Look at the high power builds on the forum, see pas on em?.... hell no.

The kit you bought is not a bad starting point for experiments, and will ride quite nice at voltage just above 48v. One thing worth investing in next, is a better controller. One able to handle a voltage range of 48-72v nominal. Then you can experiment with different voltages, like 16s vs 12s. or full 20s, 72v. For now, using 4s packs limits you to 12s, which is fine, but sub 30 mph. 63v will be your absolute max fully charged voltage. 14s works good, charged to 58v.

A very good investment for the future would be to just bite the bullet and go first class. Get the big controller from Grin, and a CA to go with it. http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c7240-nc.html

With the Cyclanalyst connected to the controller, you will be able to tune your power to the sweet spot for your motor (1500-2000w), 16s, and about 40 amps. or 20s and 30 amps. Any more, and the motor will run like a bat outta hell, but suffer possibility of meltdown. Later, you will still have a great controller for running a more powerful motor at 3000w.

Don't be afraid to go whole hog on a great bike. Forks are scary expensive, but cheap forks are just pogo sticks. Good suspension is worth the money. Look to the used market to save on the frame, then put money into new shocks if needed.

 

[Desert RC]

Cool thanks Dogman. Are they currently just out of stock on this controller or is it an elusive hard to get unit?

Also just so that I am clear I should get the controller and play with different packs till I blow out this hub motor that came with the cheapy chinese kit? And it am gathering in an effort of keeping this simpler to stick to the rear hub builds.

So order a cycle analyst v3 from Grin
Get the controller that you linked.

Wow so I really need to go study the battery knowledge thread next....I'm clueless on what I bought and am super confused and I shouldn't be with my previous experience. Soldering is no big deal and I look forward to making my own next time....I'm feeling like I could have saved some money going through Hobbyking and custom building my packs? I would dive in and take mine apart but with a soft cast on one hand nearly impossible.

Anyway I will keep pushing.

What would be your ideal one shot complete bike to buy as the donor rig?

 

[motomech]

Hello my name is Paul and I am an full blown electric bike addict already.

I just noticed that my first post was roughly 4 years ago...I honestly forgot. Long story short I lost interest before I got started. I felt the timing wasn't right for me where the industry was at the time.

Background - avid Custom RC Crawler/ basher Builder 10 years. So I have some electrical knowledge, sadly not nearly as much as I need for this realm I'm finding....I'm overwhelmed. Lol

About a month ago I walked into a local shop here in SLC Utah that sells turn key electric rigs. After a few test drives and a serious youthful flashback....I started selling my collection of RC Cars. Three days later bought a new Easy Motion Jumper FS mountain bike. I bought this fully knowing that I would ultimately build myself the ultimate or as close as money and experience would get. But patience is not my strongest trait...so the Jumper was a tide me over till the custom build completion bike. I love my bike...simple, no issues, great customer service. But now I want more.

I've been spending more time riding and loving the whole scene more than studying the future build path. Last week after a nice ride I took a spill....slippery road, too much tire pressure for the situation: broken hand and plenty of time to research now don't worry not even close to giving up. My wife even gave me the ultimatum...the bike or me, I said calmly that I love her and to remember this is her choice and if she were to stick to it I will wish her the best. We are still together HA!

Okay sorry for the dialog but I am excited to finally get going...and really introduce myself to you fine folks.

Big build ideas=

Terrian: utah is hilly but not crazy, no fat tire build for me either, want it to still look like a FS Bike. 60 street/ 40% trail...aspire for some rougher downhill stuff to bug mainly just a fantastic free ride all around bike.

Speed - 35mph ish goal with decent hill climbing ability...I don't mind pedaling to get there either...mainly will cruise the streets at our legal 20mph limits are fine.

Range-at least 20 miles with PAS trying to keep weight to a minimum . Hopefully more than 20 miles round trip at average cruise of 20mph

Rear Hub or mid-drive...I am more confused now more than ever with the options. Would like to keep it as much plug and play as possible. This is my first so let's go relatively easy and reliable. I was leaning towards a geared rear hub....but I dunno with all the slick mid drives I see now.

Suspension: definitely full suspension, looking hard at FS downhill bikes. But I really dont want to Frankenstein/hack-away a frame just yet. Once again want to go with a bike look rather than a Bomber style frame. I would like to get the right frame complete with the components that I need/want with upgrading the heck out of it. Or go cheaper bike and do a triple crown fork for suspension...I dunno. $2k-3k

My size: 5'11 with short legs. 235lbs

Electrics:
Now what I have...one night got a hair and bought this. I dunno if it's decent or crap....just thought it would get the build juices going. But honestly I would rather move it down the road then make it right with a ton of money. Definitely interested in thoughts on what to do with it. He'll it was cheap enough I recon.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291370694608?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Then there is the battery...I want to fabricate a hard case so the bag will go....but I pray this is a good purchase...not so cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331452719432?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


I know that there are more directions than I know what to do with. But I would love some experienced guidance on what you would feel comfortable spending your money on. I am not rich....but I want a nice capable FS ES bike

Spending power $5kish...if I have to sell the electrics I have and take a hit it's all good....don't want to back peddle later.

A few bikes I'm eyeing for the build possibilities. Looking for open triangle for battery placement in custom enclosure. Don't know how my current battery will fit...purdy big.

Norco FS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271773941268?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Giant FS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271750086626?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Another Giant best suitable triangle for current battery
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261272870615?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm ready to see what you guys think....we can go clean slate from scratch if need be no worries. In it to win it. I'm not too proud to buy the right bike compete either used or new. I'm open.

I don't get it. You describe yourself as an "avid RC guy", yet you skip over Lipo like it doesn't even exist.
These days, i don't recommend Lipo to Noobs, but I would presume that you already have chargers, cables, connectors and, most importantly, experience. Aside from it's still unbeatable power vs size ratio, it lends itself to versitility, the ability to build modular packs of different Voltages.
That is important for you because your bike requirements are unrealisitic, at least for "off the shelf" componates.
35 MPH and a serious downhill Ebike.???
There are guys here who have built that kind of Super Ebike, but they are not afraid of getting their hands dirty and in the end, they probably exceeded your projected budget. And at that high level of performance, tires that will swing both ways become problematic.
For $5K, you should be thinking about two builds, and using a common core of Lipo batteries.
To that end, you certainly don't need a $3k mountain bike, or even a used $1.5 K one. Once you add a motor, the things that those big $$$ buy, aren't really important. Those extra grams of weight shaved off, the best gear change systems, that fresh paint, etc. All that is really needed is strong frames, good brakes and decent suspension. I bought both of my bikes used when they were over 5 years old for less than half of MSRP, and they were both mint(never used off road). The Idrive, for example, still has killer suspension, but since it is considered too heavy for serious MBX'ers, I got a great deal. It's wintertime, start checking Craigslist.
The kit you bought would be fine for the street and it will get to 35MPH (too fast for a bicycle I.M.O.), if you put enough Volts on it, but it's not what I would be looking at for a trail bike. For that, I think you should be looking a big geared, like the Mac or a BPM, or a mid-drive. A low-speed motor for hills because that is the challaNge for a trail bike. Geared also means smaller, lighter and better free wheeling.
Almost everyone here who considers themselves an Ebike addict, has built at least two bikes. Instead of building one bike that is not going to meet either of your diverse requirements very well, why not start with two builds targeted specificly to meet your desired results?

 

[Drunkskunk]

I agree with dogman. If you're serious about this, grab a controller from Grin, and get the matching Cycle Analyst. it will be the single best thing you can do for any ebike.

Also, forget PAS. the concept sounds good, but the reality isn't all that great. you do a better job applying throttle manualy to match what your legs need.

That motor looks like one of the various flavors of 9C/MXUS clones. It should be good. They are generaly more motor than mosrt people need, even when building a performance bike, so should be great for your first motor.

The battery, though... They claim it has a 2C BMS. 2C means 2 times the Capacity of the battery. 2 times the capacity on a 20AH battery would be 40 amps. They only rate it for 20. That thing is a 1C BMS, and that makes it total crap. Hopefully the rest of the battery is better, but You're the first I've seen that admits buying from them. Congratulations, you get to be a Pioneer.

The good news on the battery is that a 48v20AH should have around 27 miles range at 20mph no pedaling, Minimum, with a reserve left over. Normal riding should go further.

As for a bike, don't waste your money on a new bike only to replace 1/3 of it with Ebike parts. Start looking on Pinkbike.com for used DH bikes, or hit up craigslist.

 

[dogman dan]

The cali battery should be ok for 30 amps. Very likely your kit controller is 30 amps or less.

But yeah, it won't be going 35 till you put the higher voltage to it later. I must have confused your story with anothers, who was planning to build a battery from 4s hardcases from RC.

That grin controller and CA will make experiments with lipo easy later. But for now, you should be able to have some fun with the stock controller that comes with the kit.

Once you get the bug, you will likely do as many of us have. Multiple ebikes. You can start out with a pretty cheap one, but figure that one will be mostly street.

The off road one budget can go exponential, since it may be a 50 mph bike. It will need a serious frame, and shocks that cost more than whole bikes.

Rode a 10,000 watt one last month, while the slowpoke cycles guys had their RV parked in my driveway. WHEEE!

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

I was in your shoes about 2 years ago and this forum is a great place to learn and, as you can see, you get a lot of helpful responses.

With the higher powered 18650s, contrary to popular belief, it is not necessary to use Lico. I went back and forth on the decision because I wanted the juice, but I didn't want the potential disaster since I had just bought and renovated my house.

I found my way to this post on electricbike.com and that sealed the deal for me - 18650:

https://www.electricbike.com/high-current-batteries-not-lipo/

After experimenting a bit, I found that my sweet spot was right around 30mph max but yours may be different. The Giant Anthem bike that you linked to will easily fit 200 18650 cells if you build 2 identical packs and run them side by side. the pack would be less than 6" wide so you would still have pedal clearance and with 200 cells, you can pull a lot of amps. One con = the pack will be heavier; a pro = you will get more cycles out of it and would get a lot of distance. Another pro is that the pack would be more dense; less wasted space in the triangle than LiCo.

The Electricbike.com blog is a good source for information for your research because sifting through this forum can be a daunting and tedious task to get the best of the best information. The Blog posts highlight the best builds from here on this forum with links to pertinent build threads and posts here on the forum.

For someone in your shoes, I believe it would be a great place to do some reading.

Your $5,000 budget is huge! I recently kinda-sorta finished my dream build that is based on a DH bike and goes 28 at 10S (close to 40 on 14S) and I am into it for well under $3,000.00.

If you want to buy a used bike, I would suggest Pinkbike.com. Their Buy/Sell section will have everything that you can possibly want bike-wise. I spent almost an entire day browsing the DH bike and DH bike frame sections looking to which bike had a lot of triangle space and which I should avoid. Then go over onto BikeBluebook.com and make sure that the asking price is fair.

It is a good way to let someone else eat the depreciation on a new bike.

Good Luck and I hope that you start a build thread because it seems like you are going to build one hell of a bike.