Need Help Identifying Battery and Finding Charger

dwini

10 µW
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
6
I am relatively new to the world of Ebikes and have purchased a used lithium battery for an ebike. The owner wasn't sure of it's condition, but thought it had come with a golden motor kit (golden motor is handwritten on the side of the aluminum case). A picture of the case is below (a square prism about 95 x 95 x 400 mm). The seller originally said he did not have the charger. I took a chance, and on arrival the battery read 36v so I think that was good. However I am not sure how to charge it. It does not appear to have a charging port. Instead it has a computer-type male output port on one side and a 15 pin male circular port on the other (see second picture).

He did send a charger with the package that had a computer-type AC port. After verifying voltages on the male and female AC ports on battery and charger and verifying charger was roughly 42v out, I plugged it in thinking it was the "found" original charger and you must charge through the outlet port. Immediately heard (and smelled) a fzzt taking me back to my high school electronics class.

I took the battery apart. It appears to be composed of 12 cylindrical cells in blue plastic shrink wrap. Cells appear to be about 36mm in diameter and maybe 110mm long. I can trace the positive and negative output port wires through fuse and key/lock to where they enter the wrapped battery at the top. There appear to be about 12 smaller gauge black wires going to the 15 pin circular port.

I did not see a computer board for a BMS inside the metal casing. Could be in the battery wrap, but can't tell and don't really thinks so.

Does anyone know if ebike batteries were made that rely on some external sensing device for the BMS that would plug into the 15 pin port and might alert or otherwise feed a charging algorithm? Does anyone know where to find a charger to work with a battery like this? Or, it is possible that it was designed to be charged through the outlet port somehow with the 15 pin port for diagnostics??? (and the charger shipped might just be the wrong one). Any help or suggestions for charging would be appreciated.


dwini

Pictures belowView attachment IMG_1590_resized.jpg
 
Possibly this one?

http://www.evcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=H3610A

Juiced
 
Juiced

I don't know. The dimensions of the evcomponents case don't seem to be the same (EVC case dimensions are more a rectangular prism (74 mm x 105 mm) and a bit taller. I guess they could be cells from Headway inside mine, but as far as I know they could be from another manufacturer as well. I don't know how many OEMs might use the same cell dimensions.

The 15 pin port and the apparent lack of BMS board inside the case is the real oddity for me. I can't really think of a reason you shouldn't be able to charge through the power outlet port, but after (why is it always after) the smoke/fzzt from the charger figured I'd better check with others who might know better or who may have seen this type of battery setup or charging setup before.


dwini
 
take the cover off, thats the only way I'll be able to tell.

If there's no BMS inside, its not one of ours.
 
Thanks Travis. I took the bottom and top covers off. No BMS board that I could see.

dwini
 
Travis will know.

I was just going by the general shape.

Good luck!!!


Ed
 
Thanks guys. I think I figured this out.

Turns out based on a little more investigating and googling that Golden Motor does sell this pack with something called a cell-balancing charger. The charger has a connector that ties to the 15 pin port.

See link here
http://www.arizonaebikes.com/shop/article_GMLP-1036-2C/36V_10Ahr.-LiFePO4-battery-pack-_-2A-charger.html?shop_param=cid%3D4%26aid%3DGMLP-1036-2C%26
and
http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/DIY-ebikekit%2020090424.php

I hadn't see this golden motor link when I looked at their site earlier.. Only the more rectangular looking batteries.

Guess I found out why they do this. By not having a BMS inside the pack to control charging between cells, they claim to be able to do regen with the bike controller through the power outlet port. Hadn't thought of that. I have a geared hub so I haven't thought much about regeneration.

Travis... since you asked (and are in the business) I took a photo of the batteries again. They appear to be 42mm in diameter and 110mm long.

Still interested if anyone has experience with this type of charger system and how well it works. Need to decide whether to not use BMS, buy the fancy golden motor charger, or buy a separate BMS to mount with cells and use a more standard charger.

dwini
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1595_resized.jpg
    101.4 KB · Views: 927
those chargers use a switch mode power supply for each cell. the ones i have seen have multiple channnels with a 3.65V charger on each channel, each complete with output cap and schottky diode for the output.

but you need LVC to protect the pack so why not talk to ping and buy a v1 signalab BMS and a charger to charge the pack through the signalab BMS.

think you could figure it out? not too hard actually.
 
Yes. Thanks. I sent an email to ping battery to get a price. May be a bit slow. Looks like they are going on holiday for a bit.
I looked at a schematic of wiring it in from allbattery.com who appears to sell this as well. It doesn't look too difficult to wire in the board, but I am guessing that the V1 board wouldn't fit in the case and would need to be mounted outside. Sounds that a v2.5 board is somewhat smaller, but not available.
 
I agree; install a BMS. We used to sell those same batteries (though we got them through BMC), and the balancing charger works great -- when it works. But the 15-pin connection is annoying and often difficult to line up properly, so it's easy to short a cell and/or vaporize the end of a pin. And although having the external balancing system reduces the size/weight of the battery, you run the risk of ruining your battery with just a few long discharges.

IMG_1132.JPG

After several customers had problems with shorted connectors and damaged cells from over-discharge, we replaced the balancing chargers with the Ecity capacitor BMS. It's pretty small, though would probably still have to be mounted outside your battery's case.

http://www.ecitypower.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=80

We've installed the Ecity BMS on these long blue batteries, and on some custom batteries with PSI LiFePO4 cells. They're working well so far!

View attachment IMG_1110_small.jpg
 
Thanks C9Tech. That is good information about the balancing charger.

Any reason you went with the ecitypower BMS (I note that BMSbattery doesn't seem to have them in stock anymore.)?

dwini
 
We ordered a small batch of the Ecity BMS just to check them out -- they were much smaller and simpler to install than the TPPacks BMS boards we had been toying with, and use a different balancing method that we were curious about. Since the ones we've installed are working, we didn't keep shopping around -- finding better motors and batteries occupies a lot more of my time :)
 
Back
Top