Need help identifying e-bike someone imported and sells

[Carmageddon]

Background: In Israel, an e-bike is legal only up to 25kph or 250watt, this guy somehow imported these two bikes which he claims go up to 40 km/hr.
I am supposed to come see them tomorrow, the second bike he wants about 1000 $, and says the one in the first pic is a bit more expensive.

The pictures are attached - what do you think of them? The way I look at it, a Hub Motor costs about 600$, controller+ Batteries even more... so maybe a good deal for start as first e-bike, rather than waiting for an opportunity to import parts and build one myself?



Can you please help identify the models, what is their real cost, future upgradeability and customizations?

 

[miuan]

Unless you've actually ridden a small wheel bike at 40kph and are alright with that, stay away. You can get a conversion kit for 250 usd plus 300 to 500 for battery. Put it on a 300 usd 26" bike and you're done for the same price.

 

[Carmageddon]

Unless you've actually ridden a small wheel bike at 40kph and are alright with that, stay away. You can get a conversion kit for 250 usd plus 300 to 500 for battery. Put it on a 300 usd 26" bike and you're done for the same price.

Well, I do already have a normal bike I wanna convert, but I don't quite understand the pricing.. how do you say a conversion kit would cost around 250? from what I've looked a good hub motor is around 500$, am I wrong?
Why do you say to stay away from it? because of the price he asks for? or some other reasons? not quite clear.

 

[miuan]

Sorry, I meant most people wouldn't feel comfortable or safe enough on a small bike like that at high speed. It's just not stable and forgiving enough.

It's true a 'good quality' hub motor will easily get you rid of $500. But do y
However to obtain parts in standard chinese quality as most bikes (incl. the pictured ones) employ, there is no need to pay that much.

I'd strongly recommend you start with Paul from http://www.emissions-free.com/
Drop him an email and explain what you need (for both bikes). He may be slowly responding at times, be patient.
He's been running a small ebike business in China and is sourcing Motors from MXUS and MAC, along with A123 high quality batteries that he can tailor to your needs in terms of shape and voltage/capacity. He's also good at choosing the right stuff for your ride.
The battery may seem a bit pricy, but it's a very high quality product and pretty much plug and play for years to come, which will make your every penny worth it.

There are other options out there too. Just look around in the For sale threads. But you'll find that shipping to Israel will be deal killer for most. So you are best served by importing directly from China. Also get ready to pay import duties if any apply.

 

[dogman dan]

Question is, can you get a cellman kit into Israel? Apparently they acutally check things at customs there, unlike the USA where anything goes through provided it's labeled "toys".

Pricing doubles if it's not in China anymore. Add QC and after the sale service, and $500 is not out of line for a fairly powerful kit located in the country where you live.

As for those bikes, The battery better be brand new for it to sell for $1000 in the USA, but since it is in country, that might be a fair price where you are.

As for 40 kph, I kind of think that might be a bit exaggerated. No doubt it's happened, but perhaps with a light rider and a "flat road" that actually was very slightly downhill, and or tailwind.

18-20 mph, or 30-35 kph would be more normal for that type of setup. So at the speed they would actually ride at, not so unstable. Just don't drop the small wheels into the larger potholes though.

 

[Ypedal]

sketchy brakes and " optimistic " speedometer... yeeehaww..

pass.

 

[dogman dan]

I would too, in north america. Apparently it's a hot rod in Israel.

Yeah, I hadn't thought about it, that speedo was calibrated in china. It could be topping out at sub 30 kph in reality. That would be "normal" for a 250w setup with some motor windings, in a small wheel.

 

[Carmageddon]

Well, the site http://www.emissions-free.com/ which miuan suggested looks actually not bad - what do you think dogman?

What is a cellman kit?
I am having the idea to ask them for shipping only the hubmotor first, labeling it as "lawn mower replacement engine" - this way it would look innocent package in customs, and afterwards, they cant really stop the rest
Why do you say "here"? do you live in Israel as well?

sketchy brakes and " optimistic " speedometer... yeeehaww..

pass.

Well, before purchase I would insist on testing it and clocking the speed with a friend driving in a car next to me

 

[john7700]

Emisions free is cell man

One of these for $175.00 US + shipping
Direct Drive 500W at 36V Ebike Kit Item #DD500KIT

and one of these for 533.00 +shipping
48v/15AH

Tops $200 shipping so around $900.00 plus $100 for miscellaneous bits and you will have a good strong kit that can do ~27 MPH for ~20 miles for a ~$1000.00.

I would label them wheel chair parts

 

[Carmageddon]

Emisions free is cell man

One of these for $175.00 US + shipping
Direct Drive 500W at 36V Ebike Kit Item #DD500KIT

and one of these for 533.00 +shipping
48v/15AH

Tops $200 shipping so around $900.00 plus $100 for miscellaneous bits and you will have a good strong kit that can do ~27 MPH for ~20 miles for a ~$1000.00.

I would label them wheel chair parts

How fast can that motor go? I want engine which can get to at least 80km/hr as cruise speed.
The battery looks expensive, I only need 30-40km range at the extreme, so can I settle for something cheaper and lighter?

The idea to label them as wheel chair parts is.. well ingenious!!! I like it! thanks.. I was not able to find any regulations about importing wheel chairs, perhaps because usually people buy locally and get 75% refund from the state...
I can only imagine there are regulations and standards.. I don't know, perhaps it is better to send only an innocent looking engine, rather than a whole rim, which seems riskier?

 

[john7700]

Batteries ARE expensive. Probably more important than the kit. In oversimplified terms, the battery will determine the speed. If you want to go much faster than the speed posted above then you are going to be talking a lot more money and/or a lot more complicated. Look up the ton of information here on RC Lipo and see if it is something that would work for you. For me, as a daily commuter, I wanted a plug and go battery that I didn't have to mess around with. Ping, listed above, is generally the most respected batt. seller on this site for these LiFePo4 batteries.

Some electric wheel chairs use hub motors for their drive train so......? I am a practicing atheist living in New England so I have no idea what would be would be riskier to sneak by Israel customs. But, now I'm feeling kind of internationally sneaky just for helping.

 

[miuan]

How fast can that motor go? I want engine which can get to at least 80km/hr as cruise speed.
The battery looks expensive, I only need 30-40km range at the extreme, so can I settle for something cheaper and lighter?

I suggest you sit down and read some older threads.
There is no way you can go 80 km/h using a cheap ebike motor.
In fact, even if you get such motor (e.g. a Cromotor), most bicycle chassis are not designed for such speeds, and will eventually fail, causing you death, or ever worse, serious injury.
For 80 km/h you really want a gas motorcycle, especially for the range you need, unless you can afford (and intend to carry around) 20-25kg of lithium battery, massive torque arms, a 250 USD controller and an 800 USD motor.

 

[Carmageddon]

How fast can that motor go? I want engine which can get to at least 80km/hr as cruise speed.
The battery looks expensive, I only need 30-40km range at the extreme, so can I settle for something cheaper and lighter?

I suggest you sit down and read some older threads.
There is no way you can go 80 km/h using a cheap ebike motor.
In fact, even if you get such motor (e.g. a Cromotor), most bicycle chassis are not designed for such speeds, and will eventually fail, causing you death, or ever worse, serious injury.
For 80 km/h you really want a gas motorcycle, especially for the range you need, unless you can afford (and intend to carry around) 20-25kg of lithium battery, massive torque arms, a 250 USD controller and an 800 USD motor.

Why do you say this? I saw videos of people who did 80, and even 100km/hr.
Are you saying a 50 kph e-bike is a reasonable compromise in price and safety? because instead of the 7 mins it takes me in a car, this would mean (with avg speed of 40kph) it would take me almost 10 mins to get to work or home - reasonable enough.

 

[Ypedal]

80 kph on a bicycle is doable, but not reasonable on a cheap bicycle.

my entry level Norco Chaos ( 1200$ in it's day ) is rock solid at 60 kph.... a 199$ schwinn has no business going that fast ifyou value your credibility and liability insurance .

 

[john7700]

Why do you say this? I saw videos of people who did 80, and even 100km/hr.
Are you saying a 50 kph e-bike is a reasonable compromise in price and safety? because instead of the 7 mins it takes me in a car, this would mean (with avg speed of 40kph) it would take me almost 10 mins to get to work or home - reasonable enough.

You can find video of a car doing 200mph even 250mph but it's going to cost you. You can make a 80kmh bike but not on any kind of budget and then you have to try to ride a bike that fast on streets. Not an easy task. It is still a bicycle.

Even 50 Kmh is going to cost a bit. I believe I have read that people with cellmans kit get about 45Kph on 48V as I posted above. To jump much higher gets expensive and/or complicated.

 

[dogman dan]

The motor above from emissions free is quite capable of doing 60 kph for about 15 k per trip. ( with different controller that is) Longer rides tend to lead to melty motors when you push em that hard.

The basic recipe is this, 1 cheap direct drive hubmotor, 1 72v 40 amp controller, 8 5s, 5000 mha RC lipo batteries.

Many have done this, and some even had their cheap bikes sort of hold together for awhile.

80kph should be easy then right? Wrong. It takes a much stronger frame, better brakes, etc to be safe. Then to have the motor not melt in 10k, you add $$$$$$$ for monster motors, hot 120v controllers, custom lace jobs to run motorcycle tires, $$$$$,

But you can definitely do a fairly cheap 60kph club bike, provided you have a strong frame, some balls, and about $1500 us.

 

[Carmageddon]

Well guys, I've read and considered everything, perhaps indeed I should compromise on something cheaper, and see how it goes

I have a guy who has (disassembled) e-bike, albeit somewhat slow - it only reaches about 35kph (so he claims..).
He is willing to sell it for about 130$, and says I will need about 100$ more to have some shop assemble and fix all the cables.
I know the guy so he cant just lie to rip off and disappear - so if he says the hubmotor, controller and batteries are good, they are probably good.
He also says it is about 1 year old, and was disassembled 4 months ago due to kids breaking it, and cant bother to fix it..

I am attaching pictures of it, I am thinking it is a cheap, GOOd option, the frame looks durable and strong, and could be a good basis for later upgrades?
I know it looks dusty and dirty there in his garage

So, what do you think? Is it good purchase? Can you figure out what kind of motor is that? watts, gears? he says it is quite while riding so I suspect not geared motor.

14 Pictures of the bike from all possible angles (due to size restriction only 1 pic as uploaded):
http://imageshack.us/g/1/9861248/

Or here: