New build Q100 motor cycling off and on?

[ammodave]

I introduced a similar topic over on the general forum but everyone seems to be stumped. I've got a new build front Q100 (328rpm, 700c wheel) with a KU65 controller and a 36v 10.4 ah battery. Under no load the motor runs smoothly up to 30+mph. When ridden the bike accelerates smoothly to 12mph and then starts to cycle on and off while maintaining a steady 12mph. The controller is labelled for 36v, 250w power, overcurrent 15a, and LCV 27.5v. The motor is labelled 350w. Speed limit, cruise control and PAS are not connected. I've tried switching the colors of the motor wires and sensor wires without any improvement. Is my controller simply not providing enough current to run the motor smoothly? I'm not looking for 30mph but a smooth 20 with a 10mi range would make the bike useable. Anyone have a recommendation for a different controller? How about the infamous shunt solder mod? I don't mind spending a few $ to solve the problem but I'm stumped on what to try next.

 

[ian.mich]

I introduced a similar topic over on the general forum but everyone seems to be stumped. I've got a new build front Q100 (328rpm, 700c wheel) with a KU65 controller and a 36v 10.4 ah battery. Under no load the motor runs smoothly up to 30+mph. When ridden the bike accelerates smoothly to 12mph and then starts to cycle on and off while maintaining a steady 12mph. The controller is labelled for 36v, 250w power, overcurrent 15a, and LCV 27.5v. The motor is labelled 350w. Speed limit, cruise control and PAS are not connected. I've tried switching the colors of the motor wires and sensor wires without any improvement. Is my controller simply not providing enough current to run the motor smoothly? I'm not looking for 30mph but a smooth 20 with a 10mi range would make the bike useable. Anyone have a recommendation for a different controller? How about the infamous shunt solder mod? I don't mind spending a few $ to solve the problem but I'm stumped on what to try next.

Need a new controller to test it. Is it a sensorless motor+controller? Chances are there's a loose wire or resistor in the controller, likely not to be found. Can recommend a good supplier of good 6FET 20 or 30A controllers that are both sensor+less capable.

 

[el_walto]

If you are using a cycle analyst unplug it. It's probably set to limit the amps.

 

[ammodave]

I'm not using a cycle analyst. It is a sensored motor but I've tried it with and without the sensor wires connected--same results. I'm ready to try another controller if you'd care to recommend a supplier.

 

[amigafan2003]

I'm not using a cycle analyst. It is a sensored motor but I've tried it with and without the sensor wires connected--same results. I'm ready to try another controller if you'd care to recommend a supplier.

BMS battery or greenbike kit - ku63/con61 controller.

 

[ammodave]

Greenbikekits doesn't list those controllers. I'd prefer not to use BMSBattery again. It took 3 wks from the time I ordered until they actually shipped my items. If I did order from BMS again, they'd want about $16 for the controller and $45 to ship it.

 

[d8veh]

The Greenbikekit controllers are the same as the KU63 and KU65 (Con1 with or without panel), although sometimes you have to swap the connector pins over to match the throttle, pas or halls, so check the colours when you get it. Whatever controller you get, it has to be a high-speed one for the Q100 motor.

 

[ammodave]

How do I determine if it's a "high speed controller"? That info isn't usually included in the seller's nomenclature.

 

[amigafan2003]

Greenbikekits doesn't list those controllers.

Yes they do

http://www.greenbikekit.com/index.php/motor-controller/36v-250watts-6mosfets-bldc-controller.html

 

[dnmun]

how do you turn off the PAS? it sounds like the euro speed limit is chopping into the pwm when it gets above a certain speed they made illegal. i doubt if the controller itself is defective if it works and you have the proper phase and hall sensor connections.

 

[friendly1uk]

I doubt you can turn off pas. I don't think the controller see's it quite as we do. It just has a 'go' wire. How much 'go' is dependent on the voltage present. This can come from one of two sources, the pedal switch which is just saying 0v or 5v, Or the throttle with it's variable 0-5v. So you wouldn't turn off the pas as such, you just find another way to make the motor run. You turn the throttle, or twist the red&green together as if you have.

This is all drawn from the fact you get them led displays. They take an input from both pas and throttle, but give out only one (scaled) signal for the 'go' wire. Where both a throttle and pas plug are present, I think I read there just joined inside the box. I took that as confirmation, but still I might be wrong. I'm a proper newbie, I don't even have a bike yet.

 

[d8veh]

I doubt you can turn off pas. I don't think the controller see's it quite as we do. It just has a 'go' wire. How much 'go' is dependent on the voltage present. This can come from one of two sources, the pedal switch which is just saying 0v or 5v, Or the throttle with it's variable 0-5v. So you wouldn't turn off the pas as such, you just find another way to make the motor run. You turn the throttle, or twist the red&green together as if you have.

This is all drawn from the fact you get them led displays. They take an input from both pas and throttle, but give out only one (scaled) signal for the 'go' wire. Where both a throttle and pas plug are present, I think I read there just joined inside the box. I took that as confirmation, but still I might be wrong. I'm a proper newbie, I don't even have a bike yet.

With the KU 63,65,93,123, Con1,Con2,Con3 controllers, the throttle and PAS are two entirely separate systems. The PAS uses a hall sensor as a switch that switches on and off as the magnets pass to make a pulsed square wave (digital). The controller counts the pulses so that it knows your pedal speed. The throttle uses a hall sensor that gives out a signal that varies continuously (analogue) between about 1v and 4v depending on the position of the magnets. Therefore you can't use PAS in the throttle input or vice versa.

These controllers also have an order of precedence for the two signals. The throttle always over-rides the PAS signal - even if set to less power than the PAS. The PAS doesn't have any sort of limiting effect, neither can it interfere with the throttle.

My thoughts are that you have a timing issue. It sounds like your controller's running in sensorless mode. There should be a noticeable difference between how it runs with and without the hall connector connected. There must be something forcing the controller into sensorless mode, e.g. Faulty sensor; wrong hall sequence; bad hall connection; short in controller.

 

[friendly1uk]

I doubt you can turn off pas. I don't think the controller see's it quite as we do. It just has a 'go' wire. How much 'go' is dependent on the voltage present. This can come from one of two sources, the pedal switch which is just saying 0v or 5v, Or the throttle with it's variable 0-5v. So you wouldn't turn off the pas as such, you just find another way to make the motor run. You turn the throttle, or twist the red&green together as if you have.

This is all drawn from the fact you get them led displays. They take an input from both pas and throttle, but give out only one (scaled) signal for the 'go' wire. Where both a throttle and pas plug are present, I think I read there just joined inside the box. I took that as confirmation, but still I might be wrong. I'm a proper newbie, I don't even have a bike yet.

With the KU 63,65,93,123, Con1,Con2,Con3 controllers, the throttle and PAS are two entirely separate systems. The PAS uses a hall sensor as a switch that switches on and off as the magnets pass to make a pulsed square wave (digital). The controller counts the pulses so that it knows your pedal speed. The throttle uses a hall sensor that gives out a signal that varies continuously (analogue) between about 1v and 4v depending on the position of the magnets. Therefore you can't use PAS in the throttle input or vice versa.

These controllers also have an order of precedence for the two signals. The throttle always over-rides the PAS signal - even if set to less power than the PAS. The PAS doesn't have any sort of limiting effect, neither can it interfere with the throttle.

My thoughts are that you have a timing issue. It sounds like your controller's running in sensorless mode. There should be a noticeable difference between how it runs with and without the hall connector connected. There must be something forcing the controller into sensorless mode, e.g. Faulty sensor; wrong hall sequence; bad hall connection; short in controller.

I see. The led display contains a simple d-a then, and that single wire from the led to controller connects to the more important throttle input I guess. I had pondered the pulsing of the reed switch and come up with a different system, based simply on delay when dropping from full throttle. I can't wait to actually lay my hands on this stuff Counting the pedal pulse's is going over my head right now, having read it's only an on/off affair. It's going to be an enjoyable learning curve.
Thank you.

 

[d8veh]

The panel is only a communication interface with the controller. No throttle or PAS signals go through it. AFAIK the green wire from the panel sends data (digital codes) to the controller. The software in the controller interprets the codes and adjusts the power/speed/control accordingly. The throttle is an independent analogue control except that some of the panels can tell the controller to switch it off or fix the speed to 6kph.

 

[friendly1uk]

The panel is only a communication interface with the controller. No throttle or PAS signals go through it. AFAIK the green wire from the panel sends data (digital codes) to the controller. The software in the controller interprets the codes and adjusts the power/speed/control accordingly. The throttle is an independent analogue control except that some of the panels can tell the controller to switch it off or fix the speed to 6kph.

I must of been looking at some incorrect drawings then. Oddly, the typical 80s looking one is now listed on bmsbattery as a new item, no longer accompanied by a wiring diagram. The nicer looking one with just 3 power levels and battery meter still shows it wires in as I described though. The green throttle and blue pas going to the display.
Perhaps they do actually read the forums, and pulled it quick lol

Thanks again
My order was shipped today. Fingers crossed (I realise I said it shipped last week, but I had somebody messing with my stuff, so made that up lol)

 

[d8veh]

They have this control panel too, but it works independently of the controller. It intercepts the PAS and throttle signal. processes them, and then gives out a derived throttle signall. It works completely differentlly to the panel with the KU65/Con1
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/460-e-bike-led-meter-display.html