NEW Crystalyte/Infineon controller LIMITED TO MED SPEED ????

[Doctorbass]

Guys.. I discovered something very strange avout the controller I ordered from Crystalyte!

They are 48V 35A digital controller (with the IRFB4310)

I was just played with the throttle on one of the 7 ebike I have to assemble for the familly and discovered that without the (Low Medium High) optional switch, the controller is factory limited to MEDIUM !!! :x

When I connected that little switch and set it to "H" position, The max speed of the controller increase!!!!.. Just like if the factory preset full throttle of the controller would be medium speed and not max speed !!!!!


Do you know what that mean???!!! .. that mean that my SPEED WORLD RECORD acheived on past 17 june was done with MEDIUM preset!! and not max speed limit!!!

When I assembled that 18 mosfet INfineon controller, I needed to repair it using the crystalyte chip that came from the 18 fets clyte controller instead of the infineon cause I had no replacement uC chip for the infineon.. that worked fine.. except that today I discover that without installing that red switch, the controller is limited to medium throttle!!!!

WTF !!!

I'll Email Kenny and ask him

Any of you experienced that?


ALSO I CONFIRM THAT THIS SWITCH IS ONLY LIMITING the (THROTTLE) SPEED AND NOT THE CURRENT. I tested with no load on the wheel so the current limit can't affect that speed...


EX:
Without switch connected I pusj throttle to the max position.. that ebike setup get around 45km/h no load
With the switch installed , When I set it to "M", The max speed increase to 58km/h.

conclusion.. You ned that switch to get the max speed of that controller.. or you need to short or disconnect some jumper re resistor on the controlelr I guess to activate the default max speed availlability!

Doc

 

[maxwell65]

hi doc

thats really weird cause the M switch is suppossed to be medium,,,the H switch is supposed to be high,,,and normally the H switch is neutral,,,in other words the H is not doing nothing except letting the full current through,,,so the controller with or without the switch it should be H. so maybe thats why kenny did not sell me the controllers with those switches as he knew there was something not working with them and he told me this before sending out my last order.he explained to me that the switches were not operating properley and that he could not send them until he had the problem worked out.all this happened after your speed record and im sure he was unaware at the time you received that particular controller.my controller is the 12 fet 48v35amp model (without the yellow connector for the speed switch) and i reach a maximum speed of 53kmph on smooth flat road,,,and when going up steep hills like an under pass i easily reach speeds of up to 47kph.this is while using 48v20ah lifepo4,,,,do you think that at those speeds the controller is limited to medium speed?

 

[oatnet]

Hmm. Nice find Doc! I wonder what your results would have been at full throttle.

I liked The idea of this feature a lot when I thought it was modulating current, but if it is just modulating throttle, well I figure my thumb does that just fine.

-JD

 

[Doctorbass]

hi doc

thats really weird cause the M switch is suppossed to be medium,,,the H switch is supposed to be high,,,and normally the H switch is neutral,,,in other words the H is not doing nothing except letting the full current through,,,so the controller with or without the switch it should be H. so maybe thats why kenny did not sell me the controllers with those switches as he knew there was something not working with them and he told me this before sending out my last order.he explained to me that the switches were not operating properley and that he could not send them until he had the problem worked out.all this happened after your speed record and im sure he was unaware at the time you received that particular controller.my controller is the 12 fet 48v35amp model (without the yellow connector for the speed switch) and i reach a maximum speed of 53kmph on smooth flat road,,,and when going up steep hills like an under pass i easily reach speeds of up to 47kph.this is while using 48v20ah lifepo4,,,,do you think that at those speeds the controller is limited to medium speed?

Hi Max,

I think that it's a resistor network inside the controller. Depending on the switch position, the selected resistance affect the throttle limit. Probably that without the switch the basic preset resistor value in the controller set the controlelr throttle maximum to Medium.. and that by adding the switch, that affect the resistance value and make the throttle limit goes higher.

Ex: let suppose that the preset internal resistance in the controller is 10kohm and that when the microcontroller inside the controlelr see that value it set the limit to medium.

By adding a switch probably that it is connected in parallel with the 10kohm resistor and that decrease the total resistor value, making the controller to set full throttle.

i'll search and see on the 18 fets infineon thread for details..

Doc

 

[stator]

I think it is described in this post:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7361#p110931

Since "Speed 2" is the default, you can use Parameter Designer to set it to the highest speed if you do not use the switch.

--Bill

 

[patrickza]

Hi Doc,

Wouldn't it be possible to just short out the relevant pins on the switch connector, rather than inside the controller?

 

[Doctorbass]

Hi Doc,

Wouldn't it be possible to just short out the relevant pins on the switch connector, rather than inside the controller?

Yes Probably.


Here is a video that i did this afternoon showing what happen about that controller - Switch combo:

[youtube]NPhmwKLXi2k[/youtube]

Doc

 

[steveo]

Hi Doc,

Wouldn't it be possible to just short out the relevant pins on the switch connector, rather than inside the controller?

Yes Probably.


Here is a video that i did this afternoon showing what happen about that controller - Switch combo:

[youtube]NPhmwKLXi2k[/youtube]

Doc

WTF !!!

Doc i think crystalite has installed a factory governer!!!, up untill not they never had this!! ..

let us know the results of your drag bike .. if the controller did limit your speed or not!!

-steveo

 

[karma]

nice find doc ill look into it. :wink:

 

[Doctorbass]

.. EXACT SAME PROBLEM OCCUR WITH THE STOCK 18 fets Crystalyte Controller!!!


It Really seems that people that you need this switch to activate the full speed on the new digital controller!!

 

[karma]

can anyone get pics of the inside of this switch? :wink:

is it a simple rocker switch or is there more to it?

 

[Doctorbass]

By shorting pin 2 and 3 on the yellow shrink connector that activate the FULL SPEED without the switch.

Doc

 

[patrickza]

.. EXACT SAME PROBLEM OCCUR WITH THE STOCK 18 fets Crystalyte Controller!!!


It Really seems that people that you need this switch to activate the full speed on the new digital controller!!

What were the speed differences you saw on the 18 fet controller doc? Also any ideas as to which pins need to be connected to get full speed. Has Kenny responded to you yet?

Edit: You beat me to it on the pin question I'm going to go try it out right now.

 

[patrickza]

By shorting pin 2 and 3 on the yellow shrink connector that activate the FULL SPEED without the switch.

Doc

Um, yeah ok well that was interesting. No pins shorted, speed was 55.7km/h. Shorted out what I thought pins 2 and 3 were, 42 or so km/h, shorted out the other two, 71.9km/h! Get dressed really warmly, carry bike downstairs and whoa, it's like a completely different animal. Before when I was at 40km/h and opened up it slowly started climbing, now at 40 it's still pulling 3kw! Tucked in on a flat road and I hit 50, 55, 60 then slowly got to 65km/h! Looks like I'm a new 40mph club member! Imagine what your drag bike would have done if only you knew...

I also saw more power off the line, I'm not sure if I wasn't paying proper attention before, but I can't remember seeing 4kw+ on my cycle analyst before, is this possible?

Thanks Doc, if you're ever in my side of the world drinks are on me!

 

[circuit]

I have two spare cables going out of "48V 35A digital" controller: one male and one female, both have 3 contacts. Shorting any of two contacts just kills the motor. I suspect one of them should be for e-brake kill switch. No idea what the other one is for, but it also kills the motor.. Controller was bought on April 2009.

 

[Doctorbass]

I have two spare cables going out of "48V 35A digital" controller: one male and one female, both have 3 contacts. Shorting any of two contacts just kills the motor. I suspect one of them should be for e-brake kill switch. No idea what the other one is for, but it also kills the motor.. Controller was bought on April 2009.

Is your controller having the yellow shrink plug with 3 pins? cause it's this connector that is usually made for the speed governor switch ( just like shown in the video i made)

Doc

 

[circuit]

No, there is no connectors with yellow shrink, both are black. Is this controller different revision or something? Maybe that cable is just not soldered to the board, but contacts are still available? Here is an old photo of the board:
http://short.circuit.lt/files/foto/e-bike/IMG_1568.jpg
It was made with no intentions to see contacts... Will make another, if this one is not clear.

 

[Doctorbass]

No, there is no connectors with yellow shrink, both are black. Is this controller different revision or something? Maybe that cable is just not soldered to the board, but contacts are still available? Here is an old photo of the board:
http://short.circuit.lt/files/foto/e-bike/IMG_1568.jpg
It was made with no intentions to see contacts... Will make another, if this one is not clear.

I thoink the board is similar to the 12 48V 35A fets I have.. it also use the 4310 fets. I'll look for the location of the 3 wires on the board that are for the speed limit switch tonight...

or you can search for V2 crystalyte controller info on the forum.. you might find the info before me!

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

OK So I investigated about the 18 fets amd the 12 fets controller and found that if you want to activate the full speed ( 100%), then you need to short the X2 pin to the ground.. that do the same thing as having the speed governor switch at the 3rd position ( "M") position.. NOTE : that the red switch have L H M ( 1= L 2=H and 3=M) .. instead of L M H.. like supposed to be.

so if you have the new digital crystalyte controller and dont have the optional switch,.. and want to have the 100% speed possibility, YOU NEED TO SHORT THE X2 pin to the GND

Voilà!

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

OK since i'm doing now some experiments with the speed governor switch, I now wonder if the 120% max throttle setting in the software is really 120%.. cause normally I would suppose that at 100% throttle, the PWM of the controller is maximum so 120% would be more the 100% and the 100% would be like 82% ??

or if the 120% is related to Advanced timing?

I tried it and programed it and noted that the speed really increased for around 20% from the 100% setting and also that the motor sound changed from 100% to 120%.. so it could be also the real timing advance??


Does any played with that??

Since I did my speed record at 75% throttle cause my controlelr had default max speed set to 75% I now wonder what would be 120% !!!

Doc

 

[steveo]

OK since i'm doing now some experiments with the speed governor switch, I now wonder if the 120% max throttle setting in the software is really 120%.. cause normally I would suppose that at 100% throttle, the PWM of the controller is maximum so 120% would be more the 100% and the 100% would be like 82% ??

or if the 120% is related to Advanced timing?

I tried it and programed it and noted that the speed really increased for around 20% from the 100% setting and also that the motor sound changed from 100% to 120%.. so it could be also the real timing advance??


Does any played with that??

Since I did my speed record at 75% throttle cause my controlelr had default max speed set to 75% I now wonder what would be 120% !!!

Doc

Here comes 60mph

-steveo

 

[BLUESTREAK]

HI ALL: I think that MAXWELL65 on the forum has some of those (three speed switches) I bought one from him. Haven't hooked it up yet.(15.00 or $20.00)

 

[circuit]

No, there is no connectors with yellow shrink, both are black. Is this controller different revision or something? Maybe that cable is just not soldered to the board, but contacts are still available? Here is an old photo of the board:
http://short.circuit.lt/files/foto/e-bike/IMG_1568.jpg
It was made with no intentions to see contacts... Will make another, if this one is not clear.

I thoink the board is similar to the 12 48V 35A fets I have.. it also use the 4310 fets. I'll look for the location of the 3 wires on the board that are for the speed limit switch tonight...

or you can search for V2 crystalyte controller info on the forum.. you might find the info before me!

Doc

I have searched for it for a few hours, but did not find any

Does anyone have a digital controller with 12 mosfets and "LHM" switch cable? A photo of the board (where I could see where the wires are soldered) would be very nice to have
Anyway I will go to basement and hook up a scope to phase wires to check the actual PWM ratio.

 

[patrickza]

OK since i'm doing now some experiments with the speed governor switch, I now wonder if the 120% max throttle setting in the software is really 120%.. cause normally I would suppose that at 100% throttle, the PWM of the controller is maximum so 120% would be more the 100% and the 100% would be like 82% ??

or if the 120% is related to Advanced timing?

I tried it and programed it and noted that the speed really increased for around 20% from the 100% setting and also that the motor sound changed from 100% to 120%.. so it could be also the real timing advance??


Does any played with that??

Since I did my speed record at 75% throttle cause my controlelr had default max speed set to 75% I now wonder what would be 120% !!!

Doc

That is a great question Doc, we need to know if the full power setting (I won't say high since high is medium ) is 100% PWM or if it is actually advancing the timing. If it's advancing the timing then we are trading effeciency for power.This is great if the power is needed, but not something I would want to run all the time, and definitely not something you want when stretching your range. If this is the case then I would much rather build a "turbo" switch I could flip on when looking for power.

Edit: Another thought, in brushed motors, advancing the timing gives more speed, at the cost of torque. Are we perhaps losing out on some torque here too?

 

[liveforphysics]

That's why you should use the switch. Have a neutral or minor retarded timing for low, and use it when you are looking for optimal energy use. Then have a high speed switch when you want to go fast. No reason to need to limit yourself when you can easily have the best of both worlds.