The spring you hooked is likely part of the seal on the motor shaft. It usually compresses the neoprene lip that bears against the shaft. I have discarded many of them on the hub motors I have used. I usually run enough power through my motors to keep them hot enough that water will evaporate!
New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)
- Thread starter vodka
- Start date
I've had that spring wear thru the bearing seal on a 9C motor, made the strangest sound and took me days to figure out... motor kept on running but the noise would drive you insane.
Have solderd motor to controller before but regretted it when playing off-road and fried the controller resulting in a magnetically locked up motor, that was a joy to push out of the woods.. ugh.. being able to cut the wire connection between motor and controller is a good thing, not only for accidents but for tire changes etc.
But my Norco is currently soldered solid... :lol:
Have solderd motor to controller before but regretted it when playing off-road and fried the controller resulting in a magnetically locked up motor, that was a joy to push out of the woods.. ugh.. being able to cut the wire connection between motor and controller is a good thing, not only for accidents but for tire changes etc.
But my Norco is currently soldered solid... :lol:
groundproximity
1 W
The fried controller. Didn´t thought about that. Good point Ypedal thanks.
When i shorted two of the motor cables (no andersons on the wire) without noticing it i had a good impression what you mean.
But i´m quite impressed how you guys get your cables through that hole...
Had trouble fitting one single reinforced cable through it.
When i shorted two of the motor cables (no andersons on the wire) without noticing it i had a good impression what you mean.
But i´m quite impressed how you guys get your cables through that hole...
Had trouble fitting one single reinforced cable through it.
deVries
100 kW
What is your opinion of the X5 vs new 54X vs HS35? Anyone else with an informed or educated/experienced opinion etc. will hopefully comment too. Please do!Arlo1 said:...there is plenty of others with some insane power to the x5 motors as well... I have to force air through mine or it melts
There is a video of the HS35 beating the X5, but I believe Doctorbass has questioned whether it is 'for real' or not? A fair race & test or not? Maybe the voltages/amps & controllers were off to be a fair comparison between the two motors HS35 vs X5 in 'that' video???
:? 
Edit: The voltage used for that video was only 36volts & 35amp controller, and I've read on ES to "awaken" the 53xx motor requires much higher voltage. At least one other post did suggest these HS motors are faster at higher volts too, so maybe there is a trend that will prove out to be true...
GroundP,
I notice that your motor is a 12 x 5 wind. Was it labeled HS3535 (35mm/35km@36V)?
My HT3525 is marked 9 x 7
I notice that your motor is a 12 x 5 wind. Was it labeled HS3535 (35mm/35km@36V)?
My HT3525 is marked 9 x 7
underpopero
1 µW
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
- Messages
- 3
I'm interested in installing a HT35 with 48v to offroad hard hill climbing.
Anyone can confirm if is it posible to install directly a 9 speed freewheel to the hub without modifications?
Thank you.
Anyone can confirm if is it posible to install directly a 9 speed freewheel to the hub without modifications?
Thank you.
electricwheels.de
100 W
underpopero said:
Up to 7-speed no prob, with 8 and 9-speed freewheels you need additional washers on the axle and a wider fit in your framework.
deVries
100 kW
Which brand/model #fet of controllers have given no resonance or howling at any speed? What voltages or amps?Bazaki said:Great motor !
Nothing but good stuff about the new HS, I almost finished the above EBIKE, with 18s Lipo set at 80 amp at the controller and it is amazing fast !
But today we did another drag race with the new Ebike with the HS motor and the HS is much faster, also from a dead stop and everything above, even though my friend runs at 100v 80 amp.
It is also is much more quiet, no resonance at any speed, and no howling at acceleration, it's much lighter and smaller and even faster. So only positive things until now.
Are sensored or sensorless both the same or equal in silence or least quiet? No differences? Volts/amps tested?
Was any controller or voltage or amps more loud or noisier than another?
Thanks!
Hyena
10 GW
I did some testing of my HS35 on 18S lipo on the weekend as wasn't thrilled with the results.
I tried it with a 40a crystalyte controller and found some slight "missing" during acceleration. It was still OK but but certainly didn't have the torque of my 9C 9x7 with a 60a controller. Top speed was a little higher but it didn't feel as rapid - which is fair enough given the wattage differences.
Then I tried a sensorless infineon which actually performed reasonably well and only stuttered slightly at full throttle at close to top speed. 0-50km/hr was pretty smooth at full throttle. Again it have to pull of my 9x7 but the controller was again only 40a. I had no idea what the shunt value was to calibrate the CA but figured soldering it up would yield some more power. I soldered a piece of thin wire across the shunt as I usually do to up the current by around 20 amps and found it not to be much different. Wanting to see what it could really do I heavily bridged the 2 shunts, soldering them 3/4 of way across. This should be good for 100 amps + but still only a marginal increase in torque. :? The stuttering that kicked in at full throttle at high speed was now savage casusing alot of noise and vibration that I reckon would quickly loosen the motor in the dropouts.
Down low it wasn't a slug but it didn't have that same sting my 9C does. It was very quiet and smooth as it accelerated but without that initial jolt and low end torque I've come to know and love. With my 9C if you're leaning back and grab a handful of throttle it'll lift the front wheel, with the crystalyte it just takes off. I guess this is to be expected with the higher speed winding of the HS motor but I thought that could be largely overcome by feeding it more current.
I'll reserve final judgement until I can try the exact same controller on both bikes (just waiting on some jst plugs for the halls so I don't have to chop and change connectors on my other bikes and controllers)
I tried it with a 40a crystalyte controller and found some slight "missing" during acceleration. It was still OK but but certainly didn't have the torque of my 9C 9x7 with a 60a controller. Top speed was a little higher but it didn't feel as rapid - which is fair enough given the wattage differences.
Then I tried a sensorless infineon which actually performed reasonably well and only stuttered slightly at full throttle at close to top speed. 0-50km/hr was pretty smooth at full throttle. Again it have to pull of my 9x7 but the controller was again only 40a. I had no idea what the shunt value was to calibrate the CA but figured soldering it up would yield some more power. I soldered a piece of thin wire across the shunt as I usually do to up the current by around 20 amps and found it not to be much different. Wanting to see what it could really do I heavily bridged the 2 shunts, soldering them 3/4 of way across. This should be good for 100 amps + but still only a marginal increase in torque. :? The stuttering that kicked in at full throttle at high speed was now savage casusing alot of noise and vibration that I reckon would quickly loosen the motor in the dropouts.
Down low it wasn't a slug but it didn't have that same sting my 9C does. It was very quiet and smooth as it accelerated but without that initial jolt and low end torque I've come to know and love. With my 9C if you're leaning back and grab a handful of throttle it'll lift the front wheel, with the crystalyte it just takes off. I guess this is to be expected with the higher speed winding of the HS motor but I thought that could be largely overcome by feeding it more current.
I'll reserve final judgement until I can try the exact same controller on both bikes (just waiting on some jst plugs for the halls so I don't have to chop and change connectors on my other bikes and controllers)
groundproximity
1 W
nicobie said:
Do you mean the white paint inside the motor? that only said 12x5
Where else is the motor labeled?
andreym
100 W
Hyena said:
[youtube]6iy4mNqnduQ[/youtube]
and this
[youtube]ZVUNPORpcGk[/youtube]
this is HS 12x5 motor manually fitted with hall-sensors and temp sensor :wink:
powered with 80volts(20S lipo) at 70 amps battery current.
you know - 40 amps and 70amps is really big difference however I have not tested sensorless controller yet, so could not tell you for sure about that...
methods
1 GW
If you go way back in the thread you will find that the HS3540 and HT3525 come in different KV's according to whether they have a 30mm or 35mm stator. Justin did the math on that and made sense of it.
For quick visual reference - the 30mm motors have a cast stator and the 35mm motors look like a 9C
-methods
For quick visual reference - the 30mm motors have a cast stator and the 35mm motors look like a 9C
-methods
groundproximity said:
methods
1 GW
Hyena said:
Did you really just do a comparison of two motors where one is on a 40A current limit and the other has a 50% greater current limit and then say that you were not impressed with the motor that was on 40A
You are a naughty boy for making a comparison like that.....
-methods
Hyena
10 GW
haha no I know better than that!methods said:Did you really just do a comparison of two motors where one is on a 40A current limit and the other has a 50% greater current limit and then say that you were not impressed with the motor that was on 40A
You are a naughty boy for making a comparison like that.....
That was my initial test but when I soldered the crap out of the shunt (which should have made it good for 100A or greater) it didn't really improve the performance much. I won't make any official comments until I've compared both motors using an identical controller or atleast some proper monitoring of the actual current.
Curiously the motor felt more like a lower kv motor than a high kv one. It didn't seem to perform much better when I more than doubled the current capability of the controller. I suspect it's may have something to do with the sensorless controller...
mylittlepony
1 W
shawn_1976 said:
Thanks, good advice indeed. I ended up removing the side cover and found the outer sheath of the cable all torn up. The spring on the back of the lip seal was damaged too. Not great considering it has never turned a wheel yet. I trimmed off the damaged sheath and bound it up with vinyl tape so it sits well into the groove. I removed the lip seal altogether as it doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than to rub on the cable.
Hyena
10 GW
Well, I got to the bottom of my HS35 issues - largely.
My initial comments that the intermittent roughness it developed felt almost hall related turned out to be correct. I was looking for a more complicated cause but as my old professor used to say "common problems are common". In other words don't discount the obvious, even if something is brand new or otherwise shouldn't have that issue.
When I connected up my known good working sensored controller last night I got the same intermittent grunting and roughness from the motor.
I feathered the throttle a little and it went away then came back, then got worse until it was grunting and grinding even freewheeling. Popped the sensorless controller back on and it was fine. So yeah, either a hall has fallen out or died or the wires have been cut through. Total distance travelled - 200m
So yeah, thanks crystalyte for your awesome construction efforts and quality control. I'm so glad I went through all the hassle of importing these to Australia and insisting they have halls fitted only to find the first one I take out of the box is a dud
I'd email Kenny and have a whinge given this is not an isolated incident but I'm sure my chances of getting any satisfaction are slim when previously it took him 2 weeks to reply after 2 repeat emails, and that was when I was trying to give him money!
I'll open it over the next few days when I get a chance. I don't doubt I can fix it but it's a time consuming pain and not something I expect to have to do with a new motor, especially from one of the supposedly more esteemed motor manufacturers.
My initial comments that the intermittent roughness it developed felt almost hall related turned out to be correct. I was looking for a more complicated cause but as my old professor used to say "common problems are common". In other words don't discount the obvious, even if something is brand new or otherwise shouldn't have that issue.
When I connected up my known good working sensored controller last night I got the same intermittent grunting and roughness from the motor.
I feathered the throttle a little and it went away then came back, then got worse until it was grunting and grinding even freewheeling. Popped the sensorless controller back on and it was fine. So yeah, either a hall has fallen out or died or the wires have been cut through. Total distance travelled - 200m
So yeah, thanks crystalyte for your awesome construction efforts and quality control. I'm so glad I went through all the hassle of importing these to Australia and insisting they have halls fitted only to find the first one I take out of the box is a dud
I'd email Kenny and have a whinge given this is not an isolated incident but I'm sure my chances of getting any satisfaction are slim when previously it took him 2 weeks to reply after 2 repeat emails, and that was when I was trying to give him money!
I'll open it over the next few days when I get a chance. I don't doubt I can fix it but it's a time consuming pain and not something I expect to have to do with a new motor, especially from one of the supposedly more esteemed motor manufacturers.
electricwheels.de
100 W
Hyena said:So yeah, thanks crystalyte for your awesome construction efforts and quality control. I'm so glad I went through all the hassle of importing these to Australia and insisting they have halls fitted only to find the first one I take out of the box is a dud
I'd email Kenny and have a whinge given this is not an isolated incident but I'm sure my chances of getting any satisfaction are slim when previously it took him 2 weeks to reply after 2 repeat emails, and that was when I was trying to give him money!
I'll open it over the next few days when I get a chance. I don't doubt I can fix it but it's a time consuming pain and not something I expect to have to do with a new motor, especially from one of the supposedly more esteemed motor manufacturers.
When you want to make some money, as Crystalyte surely does, you need to keep manufacturing processes rather simple. Fitting Hall Sensors to the stator, even in a situation where the stator is ready to be worked on and lying in front of you, takes quite some time and 'Fingerspitzengefühl' (oh no, one of these German words you can't readily translate - meaning something like a feel in your fingertips when handling sensitive, easily damageable parts).
No wonder Kenny is trying to avoid this, the effort it takes is huge compared to the extra money he can charge for this.
And when you, as a European, American or an Aussie do the Job yourself and want to get your time (about 3 hrs) paid at a rate that you can live from it and pay your overheads as well, you'll will find that at the price you need to sell it you find only a few takers
.And, because you open the motor and modify it, any warranty claims from your customer will have to be carried by you
!And, as we have found out by now, Kenny provides enough opportunities for things to go pop
...Happy retailing
Doctorbass
100 GW
To answer to all questions about if i got one of those new HX motor, the answer is NO
Just looking on these motor, i'm not so impressed...
I dont say they are poor motor!.. but for our great community that OFTEN "overclock" their ebike kit, i doubt that these motor will do the same good job as the old great X5 serie.
Here is my personal reasons:
The new axel look and IS cheaper.. just look at the machining quality of the flat side... it's not precise machining !
The room for phase wires and hall wires is NOT ENOUGH.. you need to make miracle to get 10 AWG wires phase and hall sensor.
Thanks God, i succeded with that miracle on my friend's motor
The heat path between the axel and the stator is not as good as for the X5.. Yes.. the X5 evacuate a bit of stator heat thru the axel !
The metal mass ( 9 pounds of metal removed) add two negative sides: that make the motor sound louder ( szzzzz.. just lik ethe 9C) Dont forget that matal mass contribute alot to damp these sound.. as well as the thick side cover of the X5 do
The 9 pounds removed increase the speed that the stator temp rise... ( big metal mass is slower to heat up)
The old gen X5 never had any stator that make contact to the side cover.. the room between the stator and the inner side of the side cover is enough on the X5.. but too close on the HS serie...
Guess what.. When i pulled the side cover to install the hall sensor.. the side cover bended instead of pull from the axel!! You will never see that on the X5 old gen !!.. that make me believe that when the wheel is stressed to one side, that these side cover might bend and become a biot off axis and make contact to the stator winding .. ( just under latheral force stress)
BUt... you might all have your own oppinions about that... but after using for 4 years all X5 model, used, new, fast torque, etc, i can say i compare these motor like some of the ICE that love their 457 V8... they are like brute!! and we still love them because they survive over the time!
But.. Once i put my hand on one of those that will be a pleasure to compare it with every of my X5 :wink: .. Dyno.. or on the road !.. and... WITH THE EXACT SAME SETUP AND CONTROLELR SETING AND BATTERY SOC... just for your pleasure :wink:
but i'll not spend a single dollar on these motor...unless i get it for free for review... My next hub motor will be a 5400 serie
.. EXACT SAME DESING BUT MORE POWER CAPABILITY 8)
Doc
Just looking on these motor, i'm not so impressed...
I dont say they are poor motor!.. but for our great community that OFTEN "overclock" their ebike kit, i doubt that these motor will do the same good job as the old great X5 serie.
Here is my personal reasons:
The new axel look and IS cheaper.. just look at the machining quality of the flat side... it's not precise machining !
The room for phase wires and hall wires is NOT ENOUGH.. you need to make miracle to get 10 AWG wires phase and hall sensor.
Thanks God, i succeded with that miracle on my friend's motor
The heat path between the axel and the stator is not as good as for the X5.. Yes.. the X5 evacuate a bit of stator heat thru the axel !
The metal mass ( 9 pounds of metal removed) add two negative sides: that make the motor sound louder ( szzzzz.. just lik ethe 9C) Dont forget that matal mass contribute alot to damp these sound.. as well as the thick side cover of the X5 do
The 9 pounds removed increase the speed that the stator temp rise... ( big metal mass is slower to heat up)
The old gen X5 never had any stator that make contact to the side cover.. the room between the stator and the inner side of the side cover is enough on the X5.. but too close on the HS serie...
Guess what.. When i pulled the side cover to install the hall sensor.. the side cover bended instead of pull from the axel!!
You will never see that on the X5 old gen !!.. that make me believe that when the wheel is stressed to one side, that these side cover might bend and become a biot off axis and make contact to the stator winding .. ( just under latheral force stress) BUt... you might all have your own oppinions about that... but after using for 4 years all X5 model, used, new, fast torque, etc, i can say i compare these motor like some of the ICE that love their 457 V8... they are like brute!! and we still love them because they survive over the time!
But.. Once i put my hand on one of those that will be a pleasure to compare it with every of my X5 :wink: .. Dyno.. or on the road !.. and... WITH THE EXACT SAME SETUP AND CONTROLELR SETING AND BATTERY SOC... just for your pleasure :wink:
but i'll not spend a single dollar on these motor...unless i get it for free for review... My next hub motor will be a 5400 serie
.. EXACT SAME DESING BUT MORE POWER CAPABILITY 8) Doc
Doctorbass
100 GW
Doctorbass
100 GW
grindz145
1 MW
Webbo said:
Hijack Much?
theRealFury
10 kW
Webbo said:
Someone should move this post ^^ to this thread http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22919&p=424971&hilit=speedict#p424971 where it belongs? the search fonction is a wonderfull thing, you should try it some time :wink: :wink:
icecube57
10 MW
Doctorbass said:To answer to all questions about if i got one of those new HX motor, the answer is NO
Just looking on these motor, i'm not so impressed...
I dont say they are poor motor!.. but for our great community that OFTEN "overclock" their ebike kit, i doubt that these motor will do the same good job as the old great X5 serie.
Here is my personal reasons:
The new axel look and IS cheaper.. just look at the machining quality of the flat side... it's not precise machining !
The room for phase wires and hall wires is NOT ENOUGH.. you need to make miracle to get 10 AWG wires phase and hall sensor.
Thanks God, i succeded with that miracle on my friend's motor
The heat path between the axel and the stator is not as good as for the X5.. Yes.. the X5 evacuate a bit of stator heat thru the axel !
The metal mass ( 9 pounds of metal removed) add two negative sides: that make the motor sound louder ( szzzzz.. just lik ethe 9C) Dont forget that matal mass contribute alot to damp these sound.. as well as the thick side cover of the X5 do
The 9 pounds removed increase the speed that the stator temp rise... ( big metal mass is slower to heat up)
The old gen X5 never had any stator that make contact to the side cover.. the room between the stator and the inner side of the side cover is enough on the X5.. but too close on the HS serie...
Guess what.. When i pulled the side cover to install the hall sensor.. the side cover bended instead of pull from the axel!!
BUt... you might all have your own oppinions about that... but after using for 4 years all X5 model, used, new, fast torque, etc, i can say i compare these motor like some of the ICE that love their 457 V8... they are like brute!! and we still love them because they survive over the time!
But.. Once i put my hand on one of those that will be a pleasure to compare it with every of my X5 :wink: .. Dyno.. or on the road !.. and... WITH THE EXACT SAME SETUP AND CONTROLELR SETING AND BATTERY SOC... just for your pleasure :wink:
but i'll not spend a single dollar on these motor...unless i get it for free for review... My next hub motor will be a 5400 serie
Doc
Well Spoken... Doc
Philistine
100 kW
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,736
Sorry if this has already been raised in this thread, I haven't read all 50 pages. But has anyone else had trouble getting the screws off the side cover to remove it? Mine almost seem glued in. I am not a weak guy (I am fat, but not weak), and I nearly stripped the thread/screw trying to get one off, and can't budge any of the others. They almost look glazed, as if they are glued in - is this just me? Iritating that Crystallite chose to use phillips head screws instead of allen bolts as well, allen bolts are much less susceptable to stripping.
Because I have spun my HS35, and blown some fets, I have now have a repaired controller, but am paranoid the wires inside the axle have been stripped. I wanted to upgrade the phase wires anyway, but now I am torn between my desire to get back out there on the Gborg, but risking blowing the controller, or perserverring with getting off the sidecover. I just think I am going to strip more screws if I keep trying, and then I will be screwed. Damn you crystallite with your cheap screws....
Re the talk on its performance though, I can't complain on my intial ride of my HS35 (before spinning the axle). I only got one ride, and it was 4 degrees celcius outside at midnight, so it was a quick run, but it pretty matched the performance of my x5303 (on the same controller - a Lyen 24 Fet, and same voltage - 84V). I hit 68kph by the end of a particular stretch of road, which is almost identical to what my x5 used to hit on that same run. Subjectively they felt almost idential to me, but it was only one ride I got before spinning the axle.
I think the axle on the HS is nasty though. It looks thinner (is it 10x12 as opposed to 10x14?), also, as doc bass points out the finish on the thread is cheap and nasty, it feels almost slippery as well. Mines already torn to pieces from spinning the axle.
Because I have spun my HS35, and blown some fets, I have now have a repaired controller, but am paranoid the wires inside the axle have been stripped. I wanted to upgrade the phase wires anyway, but now I am torn between my desire to get back out there on the Gborg, but risking blowing the controller, or perserverring with getting off the sidecover. I just think I am going to strip more screws if I keep trying, and then I will be screwed. Damn you crystallite with your cheap screws....
Re the talk on its performance though, I can't complain on my intial ride of my HS35 (before spinning the axle). I only got one ride, and it was 4 degrees celcius outside at midnight, so it was a quick run, but it pretty matched the performance of my x5303 (on the same controller - a Lyen 24 Fet, and same voltage - 84V). I hit 68kph by the end of a particular stretch of road, which is almost identical to what my x5 used to hit on that same run. Subjectively they felt almost idential to me, but it was only one ride I got before spinning the axle.
I think the axle on the HS is nasty though. It looks thinner (is it 10x12 as opposed to 10x14?), also, as doc bass points out the finish on the thread is cheap and nasty, it feels almost slippery as well. Mines already torn to pieces from spinning the axle.
