New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[Hyena]

Sorry if this has already been raised in this thread, I haven't read all 50 pages. But has anyone else had trouble getting the screws off the side cover to remove it? Mine almost seem glued in

Yeah, those stupid assholes DID glue them in :x
Don't use an industry standard like loctite, fill the screw holes with the cheapest epoxy you can find. It's ok, these motors have been manufactured so well no one will ever need to open them

Mine seemingly had a severed hall wire from the second I bolted it on, now after running it sensorless for ~400m of test ride it's chewed right through the phase wires and shorted those and to add insult to injury they've filled ever screw hole full of glue so even if I want to repair it I can't. Nor can I even swap over another stator.

As shown I managed to get 4 screws out, 3 are now stripped and the rest I haven't gotten to yet.
Have a guess how pissed I am with crystalyte on a scale of 1 to 10. :x

I'm guessing the move to flat phillips head screws was an attempt to get more caliper clearance, which is good, but glueing them in is just plain retarded.

 

[Philistine]

No dramas Hyena, thanks for letting me know. Thought I was going crazy or that my hubusexuality had started to cause me to lose strength. I kept scratching my head, and the rational part of my brain was telling me they were glued in, then the more rational part of my brain was telling me noone glues screws in, thats what rivets are for. "Why not just f*cking rivet the cover on you [degenerates into expletive riddled tirade filled with innapropriate comments laced with stereotypes]".....

I am actually relieved that I am not losing my mind. I am also relieved because I was about to hit the screws with WD40, thinking they had just "got a bit stuck".

It also answers my dillema, I just got back from the garage and a test no load test, and it runs fine, so I gues I will soon find out if there is a weak point in the phase wires soon enough.

Thanks mate, Phil.

EDIT - just for the inevitable event of when I do need to open the motor from hall or phase failure, would a few drops of solvent or superglue remover be the trick? what sort of solvent is best for epoxy? would there be much danger that the solvent could drip through into the motor and mess with the winding sheathing? Were you doing any of these things Hyena, or just hitting it with brute manly strength?

 

[Hyena]

"Why not just f*cking rivet the cover on you [degenerates into expletive riddled tirade filled with innapropriate comments laced with stereotypes]".....

hehe I really held my tongue before to not post the exact content you eluded to in brackets :lol:

It also answers my dillema, I just got back from the garage and a test no load test, and it runs fine, so I gues I will soon find out if there is a weak point in the phase wires soon enough.

Mine ran fine no load too then progressively got worse and worse until it chewed through 3 hall wires and shorted 2 of the phases. Although this only took me a few hundred metres from home for this to happen murphys law dictated that this would happen at the bottom of a hill and I'd need to push it back up with shorted phase wires.

just for the inevitable event of when I do need to open the motor from hall or phase failure, would a few drops of solvent or superglue remover be the trick? what sort of solvent is best for epoxy?

Unlikely, when I finally did crack the screws loose they took a bit of the hub covers paint with them - they're tightened down into the paint and then the well they sit in is filled with glue, so it's pretty much cut off from the outside world. I doubt any amount of solvent will get through.

Were you doing any of these things Hyena, or just hitting it with brute manly strength?

I was pressing down on the screws with all my body weight (which admittedly isn't that beefy at 70kg) as I tried to crack them loose. So hard infact that my elbow joints were hurting by the end from teh torsion I was trying to generate (mainly my right at the time, but my left which I fractured around a year ago when I came off my bike is aching now, bastard)

I also tried whacking them with a hammer incase that cracked the glue and toasted the shit out of them with a hot glue gun, both to no avail.
In the end the only way I could get the stripped heads out was to cut new slots with a dremel. This is easily done because the screws are cheap shit metal.
This is how they ended up. The screw threads were covered in glue but the circled but shows a huge plug of glue that was on one of them. No wonder they wouldn't come out!




Anyway rants over and thankfully I didn't start the for sale thread I wanted to an hour ago and put my remaining motors up for sale for $50 each
I got the cover off in the end so now I just have to rewire it.
The inside machined slot of the axle is sharp enough to shave with and is no wonder it quickly cut through the cables. That little circular springy thing that was posted eariler is totally toasted though, it was mashed up around the axle and cut into about 3 pieces. I'm not sure what purpose it's supposed to serve but it's a gonner and I'm not going to bother trying to find a replacement.
The wires here aren't burnt, just chewed through black plastic.



Also for future reference this is what the stator looks like for the motors I received. 12x5 wind and shown

 

[icekreme1002]

Shame about the screws guys... I was lucky enough to get mine all off with great difficulty. I pulled out every single Phillips driver i could find and eventually found one that was much tighter than the others and managed to get them off.

To anyone else trying, try every head you have, these screws seriously are a bitch!

I still need to true my wheel before I can test ride this thing, but I too was seriously disappointed with the sharpness and overall quality of the axle and where the wires come out. Cost twice as much as my 9c, so I expected the quality to be far better.
I was lucky enough to have my halls all working though.

Hats off to you Doctorbass for getting 10awg through that axel! A miracle indeed. I took the side off with the intention of trying, but struggled enough to get the stock back in with extra installation and protection near the exit.

With any luck I will be getting my wheel trued this weekend but I am still a little nervous to really test it.
Has anyone noticed the axel is significantly thinner than the 9c's too? The 9c nuts slide straight down, and my amped bike torque arms are not even close to tight. WIth serious torque in sure the axle would easily spin in them.
Next mission, build new torque arms.... grrr crystalyte!

 

[theRealFury]

Next mission, build new torque arms.... grrr crystalyte!

The "universal" torque arm (which funnly enough wont fit my bike because the frame sticks out too much beyond the dropouts) that crystalyte europe sell fits the rear axle on the 3540 perfectly... almost had to tap it down with a hammer it was that tight of a fit... unfortunately they charge 35 Euro form them. I have resigned myself to the fact that im going to have to get one custom fabricated, either that or find some metal thick enough to do the job and a hack saw cabable of cutting through it. Think an e-bike ride to the laser cutters might be in order (if i can find one).

 

[wojtek]

Mine seemingly had a severed hall wire from the second I bolted it on, now after running it sensorless for ~400m of test ride it's chewed right through the phase wires and shorted those and to add insult to injury they've filled ever screw hole full of glue so even if I want to repair it I can't. Nor can I even swap over another stator.

As shown I managed to get 4 screws out, 3 are now stripped and the rest I haven't gotten to yet.
Have a guess how pissed I am with crystalyte on a scale of 1 to 10. :x

I'm guessing the move to flat phillips head screws was an attempt to get more caliper clearance, which is good, but glueing them in is just plain retarded.

Funnily enough they managed to come up with a great motor at reasonable price but completely scr*wed the "details"! [from cost perspective it may take 5 USD more just to make some little annoying things done properly]

 

[sn0wchyld]

View attachment 2

geeeeeze thats just plain crap mate. I havent even had mine laced yet and sounds like they might be garbage!! Is it worth taking it apart and trying to fix the bs or should i get it laced and give it a bash 'n' see what happens?

and, glue as threadlock?!?!?!? thats gotta be one of the dumbest moves Ive ever heard. Im speechless.


edit,
can someone tell me a happy story of a working unmodded hx? Im getting seriosly worried that ive spent $600 on motor and controller stuff that might never work...

 

[bigmoose]

For us non metric types, I measured the screws to be M4 x 0.7 thread, 12mm long. I bought socket head stainless replacements from: http://www.fastener-express.com/

I agree, the wire exit leaves a lot to be desired for reliability. I think we have to be careful of clearances in this motor and winding rubs to the covers also.

 

[theRealFury]

can someone tell me a happy story of a working unmodded hx? Im getting seriosly worried that ive spent $600 on motor and controller stuff that might never work...

Well mine is unmodded and no issues so far after ~650 miles of both on and offroad riding... worth noteing though that i only put 800w through mine at this time... ill find out how it really is once i get a lyen controller any my lipo. I have however developed an annoying squeek from the rear axle that seems to come and go... a little worried about it based on all the problems people have had but its not giving me any issues at present.

 

[Bazaki]

I opened up about 6 HS/HT motors and the combination of cheap metal screws and glue is bad thing, tapping the screws with a hammer did the trick, my own HS motor with hall Sensors has now run about 500km,no problems so far, only the phasewires do get hot at 80 amp, and the motor is also reaching 60gr celcius, what is a safe temp for the magnets ?

 

[sn0wchyld]

can someone tell me a happy story of a working unmodded hx? Im getting seriosly worried that ive spent $600 on motor and controller stuff that might never work...

Well mine is unmodded and no issues so far after ~650 miles of both on and offroad riding... worth noteing though that i only put 800w through mine at this time... ill find out how it really is once i get a lyen controller any my lipo. I have however developed an annoying squeek from the rear axle that seems to come and go... a little worried about it based on all the problems people have had but its not giving me any issues at present.

well at least some work huh? mind u is yours sensorless? looks like a nice clean build either way. how rough is your offroad?

 

[Philistine]

Thanks for all the photos Hyena, do appreciate the details. The dremel idea is genius, and I may resort to that when the time comes.

I just got back (keeping in mind it is -1 Degrees C here and nearly 1am right now) from my first test run on the Greyborg, with the HS35 (that I spun the axle and blew the fets of my 24 Fet with - the one I am questioning the health of). I just went about 2 km, before my shiverring body, in a ratty kmart acrylic jumper could take no more. And the grin has still not come off my face. The Greyborg is just patently insane. The suspension and ride is better than some dirt bikes I have owned (admittedly I have owned some sh!t dirt bikes in my time), but the motor was nuts. I actually have to tip my hat to the motor, performed as well as my X5303 easily.

But I am just devastated with all the talk about phase wires being shredded from the get go for people. I have no doubt that the inside of my motor is a phase short waiting to happen (indeed that is obviously what happened on the axle spin event). I have to give big props to ES member BoostJuice for fixing my 24 Fet controller. He pointed out to me that it was probably a shorting of phase wires that blew the fet, and upon me inspecting the phase wires I could see some lesions that had me concerned. I can only imagine what the inside looks like (all this talk of lesions, and fears about the insides has me thinking about my own health).

But peoples talk about the axle is spot on. It is slippery, small, and why they didn't go with the standard X5 (14x10?) axle puzzles me.

I was also a bit worried by Nicobie's post that he smoked his motor. In my opinion this motor performs identically to my 5303, but having said that, I have tried almost intentionally to blow my x5, and haven't got close.

Snowychild I wouldn't be too stressed about running yours unmodded, I think you said you were running 20S or 15S? If it is either of those, as long as you don't go over 40amps I wouldn't be too stressed. I am only worried about my phase wires because I have spun the axle twice, and have stretched the christ out of my phase wires. A time bomb it appears. Just don't want to blow my controller again....

EDIT: Meant to mention Snowychild, you must get your torque arms down first go. These axles are slimy thin buggers. I am now running quad torque arms (ie, two each side) from ebikes ca., everything prior I managed to turn into a yawning babies mouth.

 

[sn0wchyld]

I opened up about 6 HS/HT motors and the combination of cheap metal screws and glue is bad thing, tapping the screws with a hammer did the trick, my own HS motor with hall Sensors has now run about 500km,no problems so far, only the phasewires do get hot at 80 amp, and the motor is also reaching 60gr celcius, what is a safe temp for the magnets ?

sounds like ill be opening this thing up at some point anyway if the wires are cooking at 80amps. Im starting at around 50 but im sure the need for speed'll set in soon after...

ps
was that 'tapping with a hammer' via a philips head? sorta using the screwdriver like you would a chisel, to get the shock from the hammer on the right spot? (as aposed to bashing the side cover with a hammer untill it breaks apart and CANDY falls out? )

 

[sn0wchyld]

EDIT: Meant to mention Snowychild, you must get your torque arms down first go. These axles are slimy thin buggers. I am now running quad torque arms (ie, two each side) from ebikes ca., everything prior I managed to turn into a yawning babies mouth.

oh yea, with what im planning I shouldnt have a problem (touchwood) . If the axle can spin after what I wrap around it then I dont think anything'll stop it. My current bike has enclosed 20mm thick aliminium dropouts (its a dh/freeride bike) so im going to build similar just for the ht out of steel.

my main concern is that its going to have a fair bit of hard off-road use, so a soft axle and sharp edges are a concern as is, and on top of that Im not sure that the 40 odd amps ill run to begin with is going to satisfy me for long :wink: if there continues to be ongoing issues with high power use i might put this motor on a commuter and go to the darkside for my offroader, ie ( RC drive Mu HAHAHAhaaaaa )

ps 20s is the plan. I was going to start with 15s 15ah, but HK sent me a dud battery pack, and with only 8 5s5ah blocks im going straight to 20s.

 

[Webbo]

Sorry if this has already been raised in this thread, I haven't read all 50 pages. But has anyone else had trouble getting the screws off the side cover to remove it? Mine almost seem glued in

Yeah, those stupid assholes DID glue them in :x
Don't use an industry standard like loctite, fill the screw holes with the cheapest epoxy you can find. It's ok, these motors have been manufactured so well no one will ever need to open them

Mine seemingly had a severed hall wire from the second I bolted it on, now after running it sensorless for ~400m of test ride it's chewed right through the phase wires and shorted those and to add insult to injury they've filled ever screw hole full of glue so even if I want to repair it I can't. Nor can I even swap over another stator.

As shown I managed to get 4 screws out, 3 are now stripped and the rest I haven't gotten to yet.
Have a guess how pissed I am with crystalyte on a scale of 1 to 10. :x

I'm guessing the move to flat phillips head screws was an attempt to get more caliper clearance, which is good, but glueing them in is just plain retarded.

You need to use a impact drive to get these out. You will find it hard just using a screw driver. Mine came out no problem. Make sure you replace them with stainless m4 hex bolts.

 

[Webbo]

Would anybody recommend putting the hall sensor wires on the other side of the axle? So one side would be for the phase power wires and the other for the hall sensors. It would just mean pressing out the axle and machining a grove into the axle like on the phase power side. That way we would have more space and thus reduce the risk of cutting the wires while riding.

 

[nicobie]

If you have the right tools the screws are not too hard to remove. Having an electric impact driver helps, but what really does the trick is to bash the screws with a manual impact driver hard a few times then use the cordless driver. The one I have I bought from Harbor freight years ago. It was cheap. I don't use very often, but every once in a while it's indispensable.

 

[theRealFury]

can someone tell me a happy story of a working unmodded hx? Im getting seriosly worried that ive spent $600 on motor and controller stuff that might never work...

Well mine is unmodded and no issues so far after ~650 miles of both on and offroad riding... worth noteing though that i only put 800w through mine at this time... ill find out how it really is once i get a lyen controller any my lipo. I have however developed an annoying squeek from the rear axle that seems to come and go... a little worried about it based on all the problems people have had but its not giving me any issues at present.

well at least some work huh? mind u is yours sensorless? looks like a nice clean build either way. how rough is your offroad?

Yea, touch wood mine is doing great so far. Yes its the sensorless version, and i a way im glad as practically all the people with issues are using the sensored version i think. Thanks for the praise on the build, next stage is to ditch the li-ion and get some lipo in the triangle, then she will handle a bit better than a tank . My offroad is pretty hard in places, no jumps but some really rough terrain that makes your teeth chatter unless you slow down to 5mph (which i dont bother doing ). All in all im really happy with my HS when compared to my old bafang geared hub.

 

[sn0wchyld]

Yea, touch wood mine is doing great so far. Yes its the sensorless version, and i a way im glad as practically all the people with issues are using the sensored version i think. Thanks for the praise on the build, next stage is to ditch the li-ion and get some lipo in the triangle, then she will handle a bit better than a tank . My offroad is pretty hard in places, no jumps but some really rough terrain that makes your teeth chatter unless you slow down to 5mph (which i dont bother doing ). All in all im really happy with my HS when compared to my old bafang geared hub.

hehe yea thing that worries me is mine is a sensored... and while im not too 'phased' by replacing the hall/phase wires :wink: , im more worried that if they fail it could kill my controller or something else inside the motor.

What else can get broken by shorted phase wires? I think (though I could be mistaken) that cut/shorted sensors is less of an issue - just makes the motor loud/run like crap/stop, but shorting the phases can kill controllers and other bad stuff cant it?

 

[Andje]

well i just blew up by controller because of shorted phase wires; the sharp axle of the hs30 cut one phase wire, but my 18 fet lyens was set for a high enough block time that it powered the motor and just included the rim and spokes as well in the circuit. This required one phase out of three to pull like 7000w for the 15 seconds it ran. This melted the solder trace on one of the phase sets inside the controller, creating a connection of molten solder between the controller and the box, boom, all fets blown.
So yeah, i'm going to be rewiring my hs again, and i recommend everyone file down the sharpness of the groove along he edges; very poor design imho. Best thing to do is stuff it with wire and epoxy everything in place so the rotation of the motor cant slowly cut into the wires.

 

[Arlo1]

well i just blew up by controller because of shorted phase wires; the sharp axle of the hs30 cut one phase wire, but my 18 fet lyens was set for a high enough block time that it powered the motor and just included the rim and spokes as well in the circuit. This required one phase out of three to pull like 7000w for the 15 seconds it ran. This melted the solder trace on one of the phase sets inside the controller, creating a connection of molten solder between the controller and the box, boom, all fets blown.
So yeah, i'm going to be rewiring my hs again, and i recommend everyone file down the sharpness of the groove along he edges; very poor design imho. Best thing to do is stuff it with wire and epoxy everything in place so the rotation of the motor cant slowly cut into the wires.

Block time would have not saved you.... I have tried up and down and these controlers are to dumb to save them selfs when this stuff happens. But in your next controler you can build up the traces with some coper and solder and it will likely only blow 1 or 2 sets of fets. I replaces 3 fets 3 times on my 18 fet before I killed it good with collossus!

 

[mvly]

I just received a modified winding HS3548 rear motor, we request to have custom wind motor to be like 5302. Sorry there are no picture, it just look like any other HS3540 rear from the outside, but this thing fly. At 36v, fully charged battery at 40v, it hit 48km/h, at 72v, it will hit 96km/h, at 100v, it will hit 120km/h. I only have two, i believe this is the only two and the first HS3548 ever make.

Ken

Where can I get a hold of the HS3548?

Thanks

 

[bigmoose]

Some questions for Luke and Karma. Thanks to Nicobie I have another HT3025 to experiment with rewinding. First I am going to ditch the axle and make a replacement with more room. Looking at a bearing change and moving the wire side up to 3/4 inch or so to get clearance for reliability. I am amazed at how "tight" everything must be to clear the side covers, and the motor I have only have to 30mm stator and 35mm magnets.

Luke, did you and Biff come up with an optimum winding pattern for this motor? Something different than: AaABbBbcCcaAabBbBCcCAaAabBbcCcaAaABbBCcCcaAabBbcCcC ? I was going to wind with #18 200 dec C magnet wire and go 2 strand, 6 turns.

Karma: I am going to order some Nomex 410 calendered motor slot paper. It comes in 36 inch x 36 inch sheets. If you want to split a sheet let me know. I can't find it for less than about $60/sheet. It comes in 0.005 0.010 0.015 0.020 and 0.030 Thickness above 0.010 get pricier. Do you know what thickness is proper? Justin of eBikes . ca says that he has some of the paper from a motor manufacturer. Perhaps we should ask him the thickness? If you have a cheaper source, please share it with me if you can.

I was also thinking of painting the slots and lamination faces with Glyptal 1201B prior to placing the Nomex paper in the slots.

The motor I received that was burned up, was insulated with improper thermoplastic. It all melted together when the motor let out the smoke, and the slots are now filled with rock hard resin, encapsulating the #25 wires. I will test it for a melting point after I disassemble the rotor.

Don't hold your breath on this rewind... I go a lot slower than Luke on these things... I'm old... I'm slow...

 

[nicobie]

Big M,

As I'm sure you noticed, your motor with the #25 wire was marked 9 x 7. How will the cross section of copper compare with 2 x 6 18g wire you are planning to do? The HS3540 is a 12 x 5 wind but I don't know the wire size it is wound with. I wonder if Clyte makes a 10 x 6 wind as that seems to me to be just about perfect for 72v systems.

Handling 2 strands of wire will be hard enough. I couldn't imagine dealing with 12 at a time.

Good luck with the motor. IMHO it couldn't have ended up in better hands.

 

[electricwheels.de]

I found these 2 videos on a H-Series motor on U-tube...

Sensorless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx6dNnVPs_8

with Hall Sensor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQxmr4MdoZM :?

the mind boggles...