New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[icekreme1002]

If you guys are making that much heat and still not satisfied with the output, you need a bigger motor, not more cooling.. wowzers..

Hahaha very true. Personally im a newb in the experimental stage, still trying a bit of everything to gain my own opinions & experiences. The lessons learned on this motor will hopefully help me when the 5404 arrives.

Also the summer heat over here probably does make extra cooling more practical. Im only on 60a and can ride as hard as i want if i do it early morning. For the locals that know it I flew up mount cootha the other morning at 3000-4000w constant nearly the whole climb. Checked for heat twice and was below 80c.
Same ride at lunchtime on a cool day got me above 110c fast and had to cool off at the top.
If temps hits over 30c like they did a few weeks ago and regularly in summer, then any extra cooling will surely help.... Depends on riding style and if u can afford a bigger motor i guess. Fun to experiment either way

 

[Skippic]

I to was skeptical about dirt and rocks getting in the holes skippic, but after doing some heavy off roading/power sliding and thread reading i'm not worried at all. It is possible, but extremely unlikely.

Maybe drill bigger holes and then put a protective wire mesh on them? Only bigger stones could damage the windings/magnets.

 

[icekreme1002]

yeah Im sure i have seen a few post with people running mesh, but i think the overall consensus is it limits the airflow.

My holes are 18mm. will need a stronger drill if i want to go bigger.

Edit: for others interested, this thread has some great info on cooling using fans, fins, and also on theories of best hole placement. Worth a read for those wondering where to drill.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9791&start=90

 

[Arlo1]

I have had Huge holes in the covers of my X5 for 2 years and there is no dirt in side it!

The oil inside is somewhat messy. It might work with a motor designed for it.

From what you say it seems like drilling it and giving it a protective pain job would be the best way to go. And maybe also buying spare bearings ^^

Havent chaged my bearings in 2 years either actualy my x5 has been on the bike the whole time trouble free!!!

 

[Arlo1]

If you guys are making that much heat and still not satisfied with the output, you need a bigger motor, not more cooling.. wowzers..

Wrong. We need smaller lighter motors with more power and better cooling!!! Performance is all about keeping it light as possible! Just think if the Auto ICE industry was still air cooled and how big the motors would have to be to make the power they do with out cooling!!!!

 

[wojtek]

not quite wrong.

54xx will generate less heat than HT/ HS just because it is bigger and heavier for obvious reasons as they are built with the same "technology and performance level".. Whether they have both cooling system or not.
Ypedal is just advising on the motor choice available at the moment of the market i guess.
Of course you can get more from a smaller motor if there is an efficient cooling system. That is for sure.

And i agree with Arlo1, the lighter and more powerful the better! Good alternative at present are RC motors like Astro 3220 but it is more complicated to install them on the bike than a hub motor.

If you guys are making that much heat and still not satisfied with the output, you need a bigger motor, not more cooling.. wowzers..

Wrong. We need smaller lighter motors with more power and better cooling!!! Performance is all about keeping it light as possible! Just think if the Auto ICE industry was still air cooled and how big the motors would have to be to make the power they do with out cooling!!!!

 

[voicecoils]

And anyone who says that the HT35 doesn't need any form of cooling.... BITE ME!
Mine lasted an hour!
But i will admit, it was a fkn fun filled hour!

What sort of power, current and wheel size were you running?

I'm about to get my HT fired up on 104v in a 26" wheel & trying to decide on a current limit :lol:

180A

Not without out serious active cooling!

Stock controller setting is at 30A, I may pimp block time out a bit and see how it goes. I don't have a big need for sustained high power, just enough to loop me off the line 8)

 

[theRealFury]

Well i can say that HT3540 + Lyen 12fet extreme MK11 controller = Wheelie machine.

Just installed my new controller and CA from Lyen and took it out for a spin. Power is 10x that of the keywin 25a controller for sure.. no contrast. Well surfice to say that all was going really well until i decided to see how much torque the motor would supply if i dumped the throttle (and testing out my torque arm a bit i guess) Well the answer is A LOT!. The front wheel ripped up in the air so fast that i didnt even get time to try and control it (not that i have ever been able to controll a mono)... ouch!. You can ask my ass what it fealt like when it slammed into the ground and then the bike somehow ended up on top of me. First time i have ever been winded by falling on my ass thats for sure.

Checked the CA after the incident and peak amps were 57 on 12S lipo so about 2.5 - 2.8KW ripped the bike from under me and i weigh 230lbs. ohh and it was programmed for 40a battery and 80amps phase.

Managed to ride home ok in between the fits of pain and grinning like a cheshire cat!

 

[Planky]

Well i can say that HT3540 + Lyen 12fet extreme MK11 controller = Wheelie machine.

Just installed my new controller and CA from Lyen and took it out for a spin. Power is 10x that of the keywin 25a controller for sure.. no contrast. Well surfice to say that all was going really well until i decided to see how much torque the motor would supply if i dumped the throttle (and testing out my torque arm a bit i guess) Well the answer is A LOT!. The front wheel ripped up in the air so fast that i didnt even get time to try and control it (not that i have ever been able to controll a mono)... ouch!. You can ask my ass what it fealt like when it slammed into the ground and then the bike somehow ended up on top of me. First time i have ever been winded by falling on my ass thats for sure.

Checked the CA after the incident and peak amps were 57 on 12S lipo so about 2.5 - 2.8KW ripped the bike from under me and i weigh 230lbs. ohh and it was programmed for 40a battery and 80amps phase.

Managed to ride home ok in between the fits of pain and grinning like a cheshire cat!

I agree Lyen's controller makes all the difference. My son's BMX with a HS3540 and 20s is very difficult to ride without pulling wheelies it has so much power.
I prefer my KMX - no chance of wheeling that!

 

[Spacey]

I have a Mk1 sensorless controller on HS3540, are these sensorless the MkII controller you are talking about?

 

[Planky]

I have a Mk1 sensorless controller on HS3540, are these sensorless the MkII controller you are talking about?

Both of ours are.
They are really good. I measured the temperature my son's HS3540 after blasting up and down the road racing his friend on his 125cc bike and after standing the maximum temperature found on the motor was 32 centigrade and that was the outer edge. I know the internal temperature is higher but people talk about the outside getting hot and ours don't.

Also the motor bike cannot keep up with the acceleration until about 30 mph.

 

[theRealFury]

I have a Mk1 sensorless controller on HS3540, are these sensorless the MkII controller you are talking about?

Yes its the sensorless MKII controller. Ill point out though that that was not from a complete standstill.. i was rolling at probably 1MPH when i hit the throttle. This controller is much better than keywins at startup but still suffers from some synch issues so is clunky from a standstill. It will however pull away from a standstill it appears but i have to do more testing on that one such as hill starts and stuff.

 

[John in CR]

54xx will generate less heat than HT/ HS just because it is bigger and heavier for obvious reasons as they are built with the same "technology and performance level".. Whether they have both cooling system or not.

??? The only way to generate less heat is with greater efficiency. The X54xx has a bigger heavier stator, so it can most likely run at higher current before saturation, but continuous power limits are WAY below that. They have about the same exterior surface area, and have about the same efficiency, so the continuous power limit will be about the same. Once opened up for ventilation though, I do believe the X5's whether 3 or 4 series will cool better than the newer models for 2 reasons:
1. A bigger chunk of end copper is exposed to the cooling air flow (the negative side of this is lower efficiency due to the wasted copper).
2. The angled stator slots- If properly considered during ventilation setup the angled slots can stimulate more air flow through the air gap, which is the best place for cooling air flow since our magnets are the real thermal limitation.

 

[sn0wchyld]

hey all, Does anyone know the spacing between the side covers and the centre 'spokes' of the motor? Im planning on putting in some fans, and need to know the max depth they can be... hopefully its at least 15mm. I'll open it up myself eventually but I wont have any time until uni's over in about 6 weeks, and I'd like to order the fans now... cause china post is sloooooooowwwww.... cheers all.

 

[pavlik1]

I was waiting 8 weeks for my HS35, so think twice before ordering from European branch (read as: order directly from China)

The customer service of the person Thijs I can rate as -2 on the 0to10 scale

i just called them, and they say the HS motors are not in stock. but will be coming in next week..

i guess i will have to wait a little while longer..

HS motors come in containers by the 100's. They are at sea for weeks and in customs/transit for days to weeks. The only way they could have stock "next week" is if the container already landed, passed customs, and is basically ready to pick up - OR - they could have an air shipment already in transit (doubtful). Either way - Crystalyte (in China) is months behind on back-orders and "Dont worry, it will be here next week" is the oldest story in the retail game. They want to keep you waiting as long as they can so that they don't lose the sale.

Please dont accept this type of "customer service". Try and find another retailer who will at least BE HONEST with you. Even if they really expect to have stock next week there are so many possible delays when dealing with shipping and customs at the port that there is just NO WAY that they can make a confident statement like that. Nothing can be said about availability until they are sitting on the stocking shelves!

Seeing how you guys are being treated by this Crystalyte retailer is really rubbing me the wrong way. :?

-methods

 

[Spacey]

Cyrstalyte Europe suck, they never reply to your emails, send you out the wrong stuff....and very late as well.

I'm sorry but there is no excuse for waiting weeks to answer a damn email especially when you have spent a lot of money with them.

I would by from Methods in a shot over those guys.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Well i can say that HT3540 + Lyen 12fet extreme MK11 controller = Wheelie machine.

Just installed my new controller and CA from Lyen and took it out for a spin. Power is 10x that of the keywin 25a controller for sure.. no contrast. Well surfice to say that all was going really well until i decided to see how much torque the motor would supply if i dumped the throttle (and testing out my torque arm a bit i guess) Well the answer is A LOT!. The front wheel ripped up in the air so fast that i didnt even get time to try and control it (not that i have ever been able to controll a mono)... ouch!. You can ask my ass what it fealt like when it slammed into the ground and then the bike somehow ended up on top of me. First time i have ever been winded by falling on my ass thats for sure.

Checked the CA after the incident and peak amps were 57 on 12S lipo so about 2.5 - 2.8KW ripped the bike from under me and i weigh 230lbs. ohh and it was programmed for 40a battery and 80amps phase.

Managed to ride home ok in between the fits of pain and grinning like a cheshire cat!

I don't understand. I have a 5305 in a 20" wheel running an 18 Fet Lyen at 65A and 72v of A123, nominal.

My bike accelerates like hell but I can never get it to wheelie.

Do you have to totally drop the hammer,or are these new Crystalytes different?

 

[wojtek]

a lot would depend on the weight shift i would imagine. The seat to handlebars height ratio ect...

last upright bike i converted to electric was full susp kona dawg with bmc v2 motor. i could feel front wheel going up at 2500w but i put limit of 950W to protect the motor.

 

[theRealFury]

Well i can say that HT3540 + Lyen 12fet extreme MK11 controller = Wheelie machine.

Just installed my new controller and CA from Lyen and took it out for a spin. Power is 10x that of the keywin 25a controller for sure.. no contrast. Well surfice to say that all was going really well until i decided to see how much torque the motor would supply if i dumped the throttle (and testing out my torque arm a bit i guess) Well the answer is A LOT!. The front wheel ripped up in the air so fast that i didnt even get time to try and control it (not that i have ever been able to controll a mono)... ouch!. You can ask my ass what it fealt like when it slammed into the ground and then the bike somehow ended up on top of me. First time i have ever been winded by falling on my ass thats for sure.

Checked the CA after the incident and peak amps were 57 on 12S lipo so about 2.5 - 2.8KW ripped the bike from under me and i weigh 230lbs. ohh and it was programmed for 40a battery and 80amps phase.

Managed to ride home ok in between the fits of pain and grinning like a cheshire cat!

I don't understand. I have a 5305 in a 20" wheel running an 18 Fet Lyen at 65A and 72v of A123, nominal.

My bike accelerates like hell but I can never get it to wheelie.

Do you have to totally drop the hammer,or are these new Crystalytes different?

I did totally dropped the hammer, 100% throttle from a ~1mph roll... was not expecting it to manage to get the front wheel off the ground but it sure surprised me. it was about 57amps input at about 46v according to the CA. I was stood up at the time (not sure if that makes any difference) which is probably not the best thing for trying to controll a wheelie. I have never used the old crystalytes so i cant vouch for them im afraid. Im not sure if its something to do with the sensorless controller over a hall sensored controller but when you twist the throttle quickly on the lyen sensorless controller you get a really big "thud" of power to the motor and a jolt, i guess we could be talking well over 100amps for a fraction of a second too thinking about it. That could have transferred some of my weight to the back of the bike making it easier for it to fling the front wheel up.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Cyrstalyte Europe suck, they never reply to your emails, send you out the wrong stuff....and very late as well.

I'm sorry but there is no excuse for waiting weeks to answer a damn email especially when you have spent a lot of money with them.

I would by from Methods in a shot over those guys.

+1

Slow as hell.

I am in Ireland, and I bought from TEXAS before I bought from them.

 

[wojtek]

+1
the guys are nice when you actually talk to them.
but the only way they talk to you is when YOU call them

they never reply to your emails

and give false information about delivery ect.

 

[pavlik1]

The last think I want is to be nice. When I send them the money I expect two things:
1. Send me the stuff ASAP
2. Keep me informed about the order status and the delivery date. Keep the date.

I do not expect to call every single a****le and please him to send me what he need to.

If someone is not able to deliver within the promise period, just turn the money back, make your stock and then sell.

I just want to warn the ones, not yet experienced the "perfect customer service" of Cristalyte Europe - run away from them.

I have great experience with Jenny Gu from Wholesun Group Co.,Ltd . and the motor quality/performance to price ratio is probably better compared to crystallyte.

+1
the guys are nice when you actually talk to them.
but the only way they talk to you is when YOU call them

they never reply to your emails

and give false information about delivery ect.

 

[kev82]

What size are the screws that hold the side cover? I'm guessing 4x12 or 4x10mm machine screws, but I wanted to be sure so I don't strip the threads. I couldn't find the size when scanning this huge thread

 

[pavlik1]

What size are the screws that hold the side cover? I'm guessing 4x12 or 4x10mm machine screws, but I wanted to be sure so I don't strip the threads. I couldn't find the size when scanning this huge thread

mine are 4x12, so far the hole can take 4x15 without any problem

be aware that the hole can be full with epoxy, so the lenght can vary

 

[pavlik1]

another HS3540 detailed pictures from inside

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32751