New Mac Motors and Infineon controllers?

[Spacey]

Cheers Fetcher for the info, it certainly feels like a timing issue, a quick email to Cell_man though and he's sending me over a programmable controller built for the motor. Great service as always.

 

[Spacey]

Just for shits and giggles I will get one of these:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=26068&p=397780#p397780

Just to see how much of a difference that will make, but in future I will order the right controller for the motor lol

 

[neptronix]

Spacey, please let me know how that timing adjuster goes for ya. Curious

 

[gensem]

Spacey, please let me know how that timing adjuster goes for ya. Curious

I still do not understand completely how it works, but im also curios about the improvement in WOT and the saving at a slower pace.

 

[Spacey]

Basically if I understand it right, the timing of the pulses (PWM Pulse Width Modulation) have to be at the right point of a wheel turn etc.... but the timing is usually out especially the faster you go. This device either advances or retards the timing so that the signal pulse is always in line with the correct triggering needed for whatever wheel position on the hall sensors.....if that makes sense.

When a motor grumbles a lot and uses more power than it should it usually means the timing is out.

 

[full-throttle]

Are you absolutely sure you got the right phase/hall combo? That controller should run BMC/MAC very well.

 

[Spacey]

Yep tried all combinations, after much investigation it's just down to the Hall timings, the controller has to be compatible with the BMC/MAC and it would seem that the standard ones that I would normally use for 9C motors don't work so great.

It's no big deal as I will just get the controller from the same place I get my motor from.

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, on that topic..

I've tried a ton of settings on my MAC motor with the cell_man controller to get it to do the shuddering people keep talking about to no avail.

Every setting is smooth as butter.

I don't know what to say other than, cell_man's controllers must be coated in secret sauce.

Biohazardman has the shuddering problem with his BMC, and i think he is even using a BMC controller too.

 

[full-throttle]

Spacey, does that controller still work with 9C (after you tried it with MAC) I suspect you might have a blown fet.

nepronix - no problem running MAC with a 12fet e-crazyman I got from voicecoils
must be the secret sauce

 

[Spacey]

I hope it hasn't blown a fet, it was brand new from ebikes.ca the other day, Kelly controller didn't work either, neither did my 12 fet Infineon from ebikes.ca and did not have great results from Lyen sensorless controller.

From what I have been reading the Mac/BMC motors hall positions are advanced in their timing ( I don't mean advance in technology lol) so they require a controller that is set up for these timings.

On the Mac 500W motor I have using the controller from cell_man it works so nice and is smooth and totally quiet. Plug in the ebike.ca and the other infineon and it's grind whirrr low power huge amps and very noisy.

 

[rdhoore108]

I got a Mac 350W with Infineon controller from cell_man, which I use on a 48V LiFePO4 pack (16S5P, from cell_man as well), and it rides fine in general (well, it sounds fine, it's my first bike so I can't compare with anything else yet), but always around 30-33 km/h it doesn't sound or feel good. Slower or faster (goes up to 40 km/h) is fine, only that 30 to 33 km/h speed range sounds wrong. It sounds like it's not sure if the motor should be on or off.

I don't have an amp meter, so I don't know what's happening to my power consumption in that speed range. I was thinking of writing to cell_man about it, but as he didn't reply to my two previous mails yet over the last 10 days (I also have some doubts about my BMS cutoff voltage which I think is way too high), I thought I could mention it here, as it sounds related to Spacey's troubles, and all of you seem to not have any trouble with cell_man's kits. Maybe cell_man loaded the parameters for another motor into the controller, I can only speculate...

Would anyone have a parameter file that is known to work well with cell_man's 350W MAC motor and controller? I haven't tried yet to hook up the controller to my computer, as I anyway don't know the required values, but I would certainly be interested to try. Thanks.

- Ronny

 

[neptronix]

Hey..
Is that with partial throttle or full throttle that you are feeling that?

If partial throttle, i experience the same issue.
That would be the clutch and keyway kinda knocking around in a halfway/non-engaged/fully engaged state.
This happened with my last geared motor. And it happens on the other no-name brand 250w motor that my girlfriend's eBike has.
Can't hear it on the smaller motors. Can certainly hear it in the MAC. The covers don't mask the sound well as with the other motors.

 

[Spacey]

Just wanted to say that I received the controller from Cell_man and it is infinitely better than the one I was trying to use (no fault of ebikes.ca as it's not meant to work with these motors).

It kind of proves that you need to order the controller designed for the motor, the standard infineon controller I had whirred growled and used a lot of amps to not do very much, this controller sounds sweet and goes like stink.

 

[rdhoore108]

Hey..
Is that with partial throttle or full throttle that you are feeling that?

Yes, partial indeed, like 3/4 of full. Full gives me 40 km/h, while the trouble is around 30 km/h.

You could be quite right it is the clutch, but I wonder why exactly at that specific speed range only...?

Sometimes I also hear a sudden loud sound while biking at a constant speed. As I have no experience yet with these things, I have no clue if it is the clutch, or a "misfire" due to noise in the hall wires (just read about that in another thread)...

It kind of proves that you need to order the controller designed for the motor

I'm glad your problem is solved. As both controllers are Infineon, I guess it would also have worked to reprogram the ebikes.ca controller, but indeed we need to know the required values for the different Mac motors first...

 

[neptronix]

rd; then that's about right. My experience is similar. It's the controller basically not modulating the amps at partial throttle well ( basically all or nothing )... and the freewheel/clutching gets funky as a result.

Remember that the throttle on these infineons control volts but not amps. They are fairly low cost controllers.
I've learned to live with mine at 100% throttle, 36v is a lot easier to remain within the law for sure..

Sudden loud sound? maybe you need to record that.

Spacey, i'm glad the cellman controller is working for you. I knew it had some kind of secret sauce.

 

[rdhoore108]

I've learned to live with mine at 100% throttle, 36v is a lot easier to remain within the law for sure..

I specifically chose for 48V to get the higher speed... I know it's not within the law, but it makes a big difference in how long it takes to reach the office, if I ride max 25 km/h or max 35 km/h... And I don't feel like I'm jeopardizing anyone.

But 40 km/h is too fast, it doesn't feel safe, and also I can't pedal that fast (it looks ridiculous when I try it ), as my bike has only 7 gears... Plus it exhausts my battery pack before I reach work, so it's no use anyway. But 35 km/h works fine, I can still pedal along, and that makes all the difference to reach my destination before my battery is too low. So I'm planning to reprogram my controller to have 3 selectable speed ranges instead of just one, and add a switch to it, so that I can just have WOT and still ride "only" 35 km/h.

Sudden loud sound? maybe you need to record that.

Hmm, easier said than done I've only noticed it a few times, so I would have to record an hour of biking to/from work each time, waiting for that sound, and then try to find it back in the recording... But I guess it's the only way to get it resolved...