One Cat Just Leads to Another.

[Zoot Katz]

Homework for today is a review of last weeks work, or not work, as the case may be.
Sometimes bikes are just too much fun. arrrrrgh!

Last night I swapped the tires off le Béte for the new Big Apples. At 2" they still look too puny.
Scrubbed the Marathon Plus tires and mounted them on EBII.
whoop whoop! Progress.

This morning I got the rear brake almost working to my satisfaction. Still too much cable friction.
Then the front brake, that worked fine with the 1.4" Tom Slicks, revealed its nasty surprise.

The brake pads are at the bottom of their slots in the brake arms and just barely contact the rim.
Problem is they hit the side wall of the 1.75" tire when released.
After futzing with spacers I'm off to MEC for some thinner profile brake pads and hope they solve it.
Then I'll try mounting them on a different fork. The third and least desirable possible solution is trying different Vee-brakes.
Don't ask me why the rear brake doesn't have the same problem.

 

[will_newton]

i can't tell from your pic, but I'd say you have the wide ball and socket washers for the brake pad pivot inside the arm and the narrow on the outside. you should give'em the switcharoo. the v-brake vertical arms should be close to well....vertical.

I was reading earlier how you called and visited so many local bikes shops. we should all be so lucky to have as many around. i was with envy.

 

[Zoot Katz]

i can't tell from your pic, but I'd say you have the wide ball and socket washers for the brake pad pivot inside the arm and the narrow on the outside. you should give'em the switcharoo. the v-brake vertical arms should be close to well....vertical.

The washers have been tried both ways. The brake is closer to being okay with the narrow washers inside the arms.
Rough mounting the new thinner pads looks like it might work. There's one other brake pad pattern that's still thinner if I can't get these to work.

Measuring the spare fork shows that it's probably the best solution. The canti posts are ~11 mm closer to the front axle.
I think the problem is that the frame came with Vee-brakes. The fork was twisted so I threw in one that was made for center-pull cantis.
The replacement fork just needs its steerer tube shortend and re-threaded.

I was reading earlier how you called and visited so many local bikes shops. we should all be so lucky to have as many around. i was with envy.

There are at least six more shops I didn't call or visit because I know they wouldn't have had the tires. (road racing, triathlon and fixed gear speciality shops). Today I went to Mountain Equipment Co-Op to get different brake pads. It's the least expensive place to buy cycling parts and accessories.
The weather in Vancouver permits year-round riding so lots of people ride.
The city transportation plan prioritised pedestrian and bicycle traffic.
Public transit and the movement of goods also takes precedence over private automobile traffic.
Even Critical Mass is mostly tolerated. Three out of the past four mayors, plus a few council members, have participated.
Yeah, we've got it good here.

 

[amberwolf]

What about drilling out the slot in the arm for the brake pad bolt to let it mount a little lower?

 

[Zoot Katz]

What about drilling out the slot in the arm for the brake pad bolt to let it mount a little lower?

There wouldn't be enough meat left below the slot for me to trust it.
Swapping forks is the best solution.

 

[dnmun]

i have another long necked 26" fork here if that one doesn't work. looks like it will but i can measure the distance from the dropout to the brake pivot on this one, if that one doesn't work for you.

 

[Zoot Katz]

i have another long necked 26" fork here if that one doesn't work. looks like it will but i can measure the distance from the dropout to the brake pivot on this one, if that one doesn't work for you.

Thank you dnmun but I'm betting this can be resolved locally.
The 1 1/8" steerer tube is only 121 mm in length.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Sorry to disappoint anyone who's getting impatient for the sparks and smoke part of this project.

OCB! is a treasure trove for bike junkies.
I took the two forks down there this morning so I could compare them directly to candidate forks.
Three on the rack looked promising. Two would have fit. One of those didn't have fender eyelets.
The goldilocks fork was the same DB cro-mo tubing and colour as one of the forks I'd taken along.
I only brought one fork home. The ones left behind might be somebody else's goldilocks.

EBII has brakes. I just can't use the front one yet.


Got a nice black GT (made in USA) front hub for $7.50 and ordered a new black Ryno Lite rim.

My neighbour lady is wise.
The only parts remaining from the donor bike will be the frame, headset, seat-post and the rear rim.
The rack and fenders got moved over too but we'll see how long the ass-hatchet saddle lasts. I predict, not long.

 

[dnmun]

i have another long necked 26" fork here if that one doesn't work. looks like it will but i can measure the distance from the dropout to the brake pivot on this one, if that one doesn't work for you.

Thank you dnmun but I'm betting this can be resolved locally.
The 1 1/8" steerer tube is only 121 mm in length.

this one is labeled 140XL but it is not threaded, has the star inside, is 220mm fromt he shoulder to the end of the tube, and 249 from top of the dropout to centerline of the brake post.

 

[amberwolf]

Are you just going to trim the fender around the brake arms, to prevent that?

 

[Zoot Katz]

Are you just going to trim the fender around the brake arms, to prevent that?

First I'll attempt notching the front fender so it fits deeper between the fork legs and try running the brake cable underneath it.
If that works I'll do the same for the rear.
As it is now, there is barely fender clearance for this tire so larger ones are out of the question.

 

[philf]

Gotta say...

This MACtac stuff you have happening is pretty cool.

Once you get things sorted, are you planning on peeling it all away and laying down the yellow and checkerboard you alluded to being attracted to?

 

[Zoot Katz]

Today is hopefully the low point of this project. It feels like I need a few days of driving nails and digging fence posts into granite.

A month ago I had a perfectly functional bike.
Now I have a rat hole for money that's lately been producing nothing but irritation and frustration.

Ten days fuken around with brakes?
Hang up your apron. Go collect stamps.
I'm disgusted.

Planning an ebike conversion around a stylistic handlebar and shifter decision is stupid if one is serious about riding.

Salvaging the rear rim was a false economy.
The old pair of wheels could have been sold for more than what it would have cost for a different front hub, more spokes and two new rims.

Carefully cutting off the torque arm and tabbed washer was a waste of time.
The flanged nut on the left side needs a different size wrench than the unflanged nut on the right.
I'll try taking apart the plugs before cutting them off and replacing the ruins.
I want matching nuts plus lock washers on both sides of the axle.

The 35A controller can't fit where I want it and it's too long for the second choice location.
A pumped up 20A might be a better option.

The taxi motif is pie in the sky right now.

To end on a positive note, I do like the Big Apple tires on le Béte. They smooth out minor road irregularities.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Sometimes it takes a lot of grinding your teeth to get forward progress. I have projects which have been on the table for years at this point, just too many little details or too much life to finish them yet. My first controller design took 18 months from start to production. That was a long wait for me.


You will get it cleaned up soon enough.

 

[Zoot Katz]

That was Tuesday.
Late Wednesday I went for the low-hanging fruit.
A drill and sanding drum made room for the fork legs and brake cable
(front brakes and fenders? wow!)
View attachment 1
That was enough to see if Thursday I couldn't also improve the situation with the rear brake/fender.
It required more sanding drum butchery to get cable clearance under the fender that was now mounted tight to he bridge tube.

Put on the front derailleur, chain and wheel.
Made sure the handlebar, brakes and headset were tightened and finally rode the sucker.

Properly tightened the freewheel by climbing out of the underground. Rode it up and down the back lane.
Came home, tightened the front shifter, adjusted the front mech and rode it up hill a few blocks and back down.
On the 42T ring there's four usable gears in the rear, six on the 62T.

So 4 weeks later (28 days?) I've finally got a bike that's ready to electrify.
I'll get it buzzing tomorrow, just to kinda try it out, you know.

My batteries have been recharged.

 

[nicobie]

I really like the look of that BIG chain ring.

I'd also love to see the looks you get from the road guys as you pass them pumping that giant gear.

Well done!

 

[Zoot Katz]

Well, not quite done. . . but book it doth!


The brake pads squeal too much to ride. Its a different compound Kool Stop than I ever used before. I'll switch 'em out.
The left rear brake arm doesn't yet release to my satisfaction.
I think it may have something to do with cranking the right triangle 6 mm right to line up the rim.

Gotta take off the motor connectors and get some lock washers.
New front wheel, lights, foot retention and saddle are planned upgrades before it's ready.

I'm going to limit the amps to twenty for the first dozen charges while I experiment trying to fit everything.

 

[docnjoj]

Hey zoot! Can you toe-in the noses of the pads a bit. It used to help quiet them for me. Still looks like a pretty bike!
otherDoc

 

[Anonymous]

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[Zoot Katz]

Hey zoot! Can you toe-in the noses of the pads a bit. It used to help quiet them for me. Still looks like a pretty bike!
otherDoc

Yep, the pads were toed in. I swapped in the other set toed in the same and took it out for a test.
They squealed for about two revolutions and then shut up.
On group rides, I can't be the guy with the noisy bike.

 

[Zoot Katz]

So what about the old bike? Do you have two electrics now? Are they for different needs?
And the 62T chainring, how is that working out? What's the diameter of that one?
With the big hills there I guess you don't need the tallest gear much?

I was sort of hoping they might breed.
le Béte is very much the station wagon. EBII is very much the sporty model.

I've not yet spun out the top gear and was still pulling chain downhill WOT.
CA says 61.7 kmh.*
The ride was solid and confidence inspiring but the weight distribution temporarily sucks.
The acceleration, even cut back to twenty amps, is awesome with the 48V LiFePO.

A 44T inner ring would probably be useful for how I usually ride. Then the chain will clear the front cage on more rear cogs.
I'll have to play with Sheldon Brown's gear calculator and try to minimise the redundant gears.

The chain ring measures ~9.5" across at the root of the teeth.

*CORRECTION: 61.7 kph top speed was the unloaded speed Justin checked.
Calculating from my ~85 rpm, the bike was probaly doing about 55 kmh.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Zoot Katz]

I've not yet spun out the top gear and was still pulling chain downhill WOT. CA says 61.7 kmh.

What's the rear cog size on top gear? 11T?

*CORRECTION: 61.7 kph was the unloaded top speed registered by the CA.
Calculating from my ~85 rpm, the bike was probaly doing about 55 kmh.

Yep, with the same 26" size wheel, tire and crank length:
62T X 11T is 140.2 gear inches.
73T X 14T is 134.3 gear inches.

I'll have to play with Sheldon Brown's gear calculator and try to minimise the redundant gears.

I haven't had any shiftable gears for a long time now, but then don't have those vancouver hills.
I meant to ask about that too, does the x5 pull you up the steepest hills there without trouble
(how many peak watts?) and also how does the 9C compare to the x5 for hill climbing there?

It's still too early to know. I've only got 11.37 km on it! I went to Justin's and back.
Amax on the CA say 48.7 amps. Spikes in the low seventies aren't unusual on le Béte.
They're both pretty painless as long as the batts are up to it I guess. Putting the LiFePO batt in le Béte gave it a boost.

I've not yet tried EBII on the grind up Oak St from 6th Ave or over the top of Queen Elizabeth Park.
The current limit is cut back to 20 amps just to see if that's enough to keep me happy and cushion the batteries on their break-in period.
Justin said that's not necessary. He was deep into fine tuning the simulator when I was there. (the 9C curves are off. something about increased inductance from the greater number of poles. the Xlyte formula doesn't accurately scale up or something. said he felt like he was back in school crunching algebra. we agreed the simulator accuracy is vital to credibility. basically the real life curves on the scope aren't as steep as they appear)

The chain ring measures ~9.5" across at the root of the teeth.

So 62T is 9.5" and 73T is 11.75" with these two examples.

FWIR, your frame can handle the big ring easily due to its cruiser style frame.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Zoot Katz]

62T X 11T is 140.2 gear inches.
73T X 14T is 134.3 gear inches.

So I tried sheldon's gear calculator, using custom cassette size 18 which is my single speed
73T X 18T is 105.4 gear inches, that's what I'll have as soon as I install the 73T.
But I used to run 16T and didn't want the 18T but took what was available when old freewheel seized.
If I go back down to to the smallest single speed freewhel 16T that's 118.6 gear inches.
If I go all the way down to 11T then it would be 172.5 gear inches

yeah the multi-speed cogs new ability to get small sure makes it easy to over gear without adding all that extra weight of a monster ring.
Even le Béte's puny 48T X 11T gives me 112.4 gear inches with a too often luffed high gear.
The new 54T (126.4") will better.

So 62T is 9.5" and 73T is 11.75" with these two examples.

FWIR, your frame can handle the big ring easily due to its cruiser style frame.

Yeah, I think the only limit I have would be bottoming out! It would hit the ground before chainstay.
It's crude, but I bought the right size titanium drill bit and will try bolting this onto the original ring.
I probably won't leave it like that forever but I can't see why it shouldn't work.
It won't be as strong but I doubt I can break this 73T ring.
If the smaller ring breaks I'll replace the whole crank.

There's enough lateral slop in the chain on an Xtracycle that you probably won't have a problem with chainline.
You could steal a smaller chain ring off a kids bike to use as the "spider" but your existing ring might better support the big ring.
I'm guessing the present ring is steel.

What use are the bolt holes in the outermost radius? Chain guard?