|Pen E-Board| Smallest E-board ever|Friction Drive|

Nice Pediglide! Thanks for sharing the video :)
Couple of questions
How much did you weigh at the time of the video? (if you dont mind me asking)
How fast are u going in the video? would u know?
Since you've used a friction drive- whats your take on it? Pros and cons from real world experience

Btw- I still need help with the connectors question i've posted above- please- somebody advise.
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Zboard wheels don't have lots of rolling resistance but that's pretty slow compared to what others are getting with that motor. Same diameter as PT. does it get hot an get bad range? How's it on hills ? With 2:1 or about people are getting almost 30 on flats.
Click to expand...
papertriping said:
Nice Pediglide! Thanks for sharing the video :)
Couple of questions
How much did you weigh at the time of the video? (if you dont mind me asking)
How fast are u going in the video? would u know?
Since you've used a friction drive- whats your take on it? Pros and cons from real world experience

Btw- I still need help with the connectors question i've posted above- please- somebody advise.
Click to expand...

I think they do have a lot of rolling resistance, they are rubber after all, compared to the urethanes. And they are wide, lots of contact patch. Tried it a few times but just dropped it, mainly because it's too sketchy riding it.

It did get hot (its friction drive after-all), did not try it on the hill but I assume it will not go up for long distance. I really don't know how fast I was going, but just assume the cars were going 35 mph.

Gee, did I really look that bad...lol, ok I'm north of 150 lbs.

My take is:

I had a three-wheeler, with the friction drive in the rear. It did not turn well because the rear was locked, not like when you have skate trucks. It probably would have been better to put it in front, but I did not so I don't know.

It will grind your wheel and leave it messy. Your motor bearings will not last long.

If you're going to do it on one wheel in a skate truck, it will be ok going straight, but it will limit your turn depending on which wheel the motor is on.
 
The rubber vs urethane wheels really make a difference in speed and distance, so does using a GoPro. :D I also don't know what voltage and ESC they are using.

But do notice that downhill in the background, they could be starting from there.

That said, there's only one way to find out.
 
outrunners tend to get hot on their own... rubbing off onto another tire should be no help... That said a rubber tire should be hotter than a urethane... however (and Im pulling this out of my butt) i would assume that the higher friction tire will heat up faster but provide better motor/wheel traction.. the urethane being more rigid would heat up less.. but in turn offer less motor/wheel traction. Ialso get the feeling that The higher the contact between motor and wheel the less the slipping but also the more the bearings are going to suffer... :shock:

Regarding the why does it work for them...I hope I dont ruin your christmas but santa is not real and commercials are filmed to show what they want to show.. either that or they live in a thermally isolated, "gobs of torqued" universe where friction does not generate heat and regular thermodynamics do not apply..

PT get your board rolling quick man there is so much than can be learned at your expense... :D
 
beto_pty said:
outrunners tend to get hot on their own... rubbing off onto another tire should be no help... That said a rubber tire should be hotter than a urethane... however (and Im pulling this out of my butt) i would assume that the higher friction tire will heat up faster but provide better motor/wheel traction.. the urethane being more rigid would heat up less.. but in turn offer less motor/wheel traction. Ialso get the feeling that The higher the contact between motor and wheel the less the slipping but also the more the bearings are going to suffer... :shock:

Regarding the why does it work for them...I hope I dont ruin your christmas but santa is not real and commercials are filmed to show what they want to show.. either that or they live in a thermally isolated, "gobs of torqued" universe where friction does not generate heat and regular thermodynamics do not apply..

PT get your board rolling quick man there is so much than can be learned at your expense... :D
Click to expand...

Typically i'd expect kisckstarter videos to be honest. if it isn't- that sucks!

Yea I guess we'll just have to wait and see how my board works :). I'm hoping the result is like that of the Kickr setup (in the video).
 
papertriping said:
Typically i'd expect kisckstarter videos to be honest. if it isn't- that sucks!
Click to expand...

Mine is. That's why I think I'm not doing so well. :mrgreen:
 
I see many electric bicycles use similar brushless motors in a friction drive setup- I'm curious about how that works out

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=50107&start=50
(reading through this electric bicycle build right now)

all this mental gymnastics while i wait for the connectors to get here is killing!
 
Seems every electric board business touts bull so no surprise. But dont give up hope. Im betting itll work great as long as the mechanics of the mount hold the motor firmly enough, which judging from pediglide's somewhat success with a similar sized motor it looks good. Im betting on success.. .


















when reterminated wye.
Sorry meant the zboard wheels are known for poor rolling resistance
Beto howd you take the fan off the hobbywing150?
 
papertriping said:
I see many electric bicycles use similar brushless motors in a friction drive setup- I'm curious about how that works out

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=50107&start=50
(reading through this electric bicycle build right now)

all this mental gymnastics while i wait for the connectors to get here is killing!
Click to expand...

imHo (the H is for humble) the dynamics in a bycicle system are diametrically opposed to a friction drive on a skateboard. The huge wheel is a heat sink that will help the motor to keep cooler, the soft rubber allows for a sturdy transfer without having to over tighten the contact patch, that will save the bearings, specially the rear cantilevered one., the rubber is tacky at medium temps as opposed to the rigid urethane, the bike is assisted during the high torque low speed part of the curve and works very efficiently on a high velocity lower torque part of the curve. It allows for a cool cruise, not for tire screeching starts or high response maneuvering... On of my pulverzer mills (with a 80 hp motor) runs on an friction drive, it is ideal for pulverizing flakey moist material, but just like the bicycle setup it does not mean that it necessarily works great on a e-board..

Friction drives in my opinion are awesomely suited to bycicles, pulverizing machines and other uses but that is not necesarily what we are proposing here.

Hummina your recurrent question regarding why we use 2:1 gearing on boards simply has to do with the fact that the driven wheel is 75-90mm in diameter..
My prefered gearing is 16:40 ratio with 83 mm wheels, a 60mm diameter motor (assuming you went with the 6354) direct drive would be the equivalent to about a ratio of 23:40. This gives us the mecanical advantage of each driven wheel for an equal torque....2.5 for mine, 1.73 for his.
however (and im pulling the math out of my butt) if we divide the mechanical advantage by the weights to be pulled (2.5/200) and papertrippings (1.73/130) we'd get .0125 and .0133 where PT's motor would require just a tad more torque to turn...The equation does not give any values (and assumes weight/torque curves are linear) but it gives a (extremely broad) idea that given PT's mecanical disadvantage of 38% (2.5 vs 1.73) might be offset by the fact that his weight is 35% lower than mine (130 vs 200 lbs)... like i said i pulled this out of my butt but it makes sense.. either that or i started drinking way too early today. :D
 
Also Paper, if you haven't yet noticed it, most of the users here have multiple boards. Some are just experimenting/transitioning to bigger wheels. That tells you something about what we have experienced.

I am not telling you to abandon your project cause that is how most of us learned, on top of what is posted here. The sooner you finish one project, the better. Then you can move on to the next one if need be.

That also applies to you Hummina. :D
 
but Beto..and I'm also pulling this from my own thinking.
For starters I think his wheel size doesnt matter since regardless of the wheel he uses it'll have the same distance traveled. Giant wheel or small if he hooks up his mount one turn of the motor will equate to that distance traveled over the ground.

With a 85mm wheel though, which is pretty standard, he'll get roughtly 1.25 revolutions of his motor for each wheel revolution. Everyone who has a gearing will be getting 2 or possibly 3 revolutions of their motor per wheel revolution.
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
but Beto..and I'm also pulling this from my own thinking.
For starters I think his wheel size doesnt matter since regardless of the wheel he uses it'll have the same distance traveled. Giant wheel or small if he hooks up his mount one turn of the motor will equate to that distance traveled over the ground.
Click to expand...

Im equating a geared traditional setup with a 16 tooth motor sprocket and a 40 tooth gear mounted on a 83 mm tire to a 63mm diameter direct drive motor. The size of the wheel is important in the geared calculation, not so the direct drive calculation.

I fully agree with pediglide.. many of us have since trashed or disasembled and salvaged our first boards.. 1000 hours on the forums is not worth one on the board... get your board dialed in.. see what you can do better.. tear it up and make your second better board... Im not saying your first board is going to suck... but you will realize there are many things you'd wish you had done better and at some point you will get on with a second build. :shock:
 
the only thing i think is important related to PT's gearing is this:
one revolution of an 85mm wheel with his friction drive will equate to 1.25 motor revolutions. (what wheel he uses doesnt matter we agree. this wheel size gives a context for comparison)
one revolution of an 85mm wheel with a typical set-up will equate to 2 to 3 motor revolutions.

that's a lot of work for the motor with his mount.

what do all of you think?
am I crazy, because this is the same thing I keep saying and no one is responding directly to this
 
rs4race said:
It's easy to find which wires go to each winding. The problem is finding their polarity, or if it matters. I have a motor opened up, that I have been waiting to find this info out. If the polarity of each winding matters and there is a method of finding it it will be easy to convert and I can provide some pictures.
Click to expand...

what you think now? i dont think polarity will matter. as long as the windings are coming from the same direction, which they are. same winding just different termination. others have hooked up an adjustable wye delta termination so they can change back and forth. you probably know
 
"My prefered gearing is 16:40 ratio with 83 mm wheels, a 60mm diameter motor (assuming you went with the 6354) direct drive would be the equivalent to about a ratio of 23:40. "

Se rolling out the 63mm motor on the 83mm wheel gets a ratio that seems more like 30:40 if not worse


No need for private mesages telling me i dont understand what everyone is telling me. Only one telling me is you. If u can convince me his gearing is 23:40 id let it die but im not seeing that
 
So the connectors (for the ESC and Charger) are taking for ever to get to me!! :(

In the meanwhile, put all the components in the plastic box and taped it to the board (as is) for a mechanical unplugged test- to check for ground clearance and riding ease

here what that looks like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm0GD5N3KTo&feature=youtu.be

The board rides just as it did without all the stuff on it- which is great!

(Btw- how do i embed a youtube video with thumbnail here? instead of just a link)
 
Thanks beto, pediglide- Totally get what your saying about the process of building- and how one leads to another, better and badder. I already find myself jumping around in my head with countless other builds :D

Although, i'm really excited and hoping that this friction drive of mine finally turns out great and works just as i've imagined.

By now- I'm absolutely aware, that a geared setup is more efficient, reliable and over all better than a friction drive- when applied to a Skateboard.

So while i'm waiting- I've been considering the prospect of using this motor mount with gears as well (Dual mount type thing)
and this is what i came up with (Assuming the motor mount is adjusted to have the Motor can Disengaged from the wheel). Using the additional screw on rear shaft that came with the motor.
15yzq01.jpg


This raises a whole lot of questions for me- I was hoping your extensive experience with geared setups could shed some light :)

1. What gear ratio would be appropriate?
2. What size gear and belt

Since the trucks are real small and have this triangular shape- do you think it's possible to get a gear of size.
2dv3jaf.jpg

Also, how will this gear be attached to the wheel? Would drilling holes into the wheels to screw on the gears (like i've seen on Abec wheels) be a good idea? is it even possible with these wheels?

Also- will 3d printed gears work?

What do you guys think?
 
That could be cut or printed pretty easily. I think though with the small wheel size you may run into problems trying to mount it to your wheels.
 
I read somewhere on RC forums- the rule is to use XT60 for 1s-4s lipo and XT90 for 5S and above. also they mentioned XT60 is rated to handle 60A.
Is all this true?

The specs page about the SK3 6354 states that the motor draws a maximum of 70 A- would this mean my motor will fry the XT60?

The thing is, I just got XT60 connectors and 4mm bullet connectors (i have no access to XT90)- I just want to be sure if using XT60 on my setup is a safe idea (going by what I've read on the other RC forum)
 
That's about right. You are able to sometimes use more current from the XT60's. I like to be a bit overboard just in-case and use XT90 or EC5. If you have the same it's not too bad. As we mentioned in the "Open Source ESC" if you use higher voltages your current will drop and then you can use the smaller connectors.
 
torqueboards said:
That's about right. You are able to sometimes use more current from the XT60's. I like to be a bit overboard just in-case and use XT90 or EC5. If you have the same it's not too bad. As we mentioned in the "Open Source ESC" if you use higher voltages your current will drop and then you can use the smaller connectors.
Click to expand...

Umm I'm a bit confused. A 6S has more voltage than a 3S- so would it be safe to use XT60 on a 6S ?
 
Absolute Noob- Quick Question!

I just got all the connectors- and I'm ready to Solder everything up.

I'm a bit confused about polarity- I made this image to depict my understanding of how the Lipo ESC and Lipo charger should be connected.

2ihvuw8.jpg


The connections circled in blue are what i'm not sure of. Polarity of connection to the ESC opposite to that of connection for charging?

Could someone please confirm what i'm doing- I sure don't wanna blow up anything just cuz i made the wrong connections.
 
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