Ping 36v 20 ah, 5000 mile review.

[RTLSHIP]

I test rode almost 13 miles on my 48/15 lifepo4 nonping. The voltage was at 51.9 after the ride. I suspect that on my bike the range is going to be over 20 miles. I just got tired of riding and quit. average speed was 20 mph. riding time about 37 minutes. 95% thumb throttle.
Right on about the near absence of voltage sag in lifepo's. Negligible Peukert effect.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, 25 miles would not be at all suprising at 20 mph, and more possible without a lot of hills.

 

[ajtest]

By way of a comparison I recently managed 31.5 miles on a cammycc 36v 20ah with moderate effort (still had about 10% left) - here's the plot, using a service I think others may well find interesting.

https://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/workoutdetail/index.do?id=1025774

 

[dogman dan]

At about 15 mph, my personal best is 39 miles on flattish terrain, some headwind, and brisk pedaling. 36v 20 ah battery also. I could do even better at about 12 mph, but I find it hard to keep the throttle that low for long.

 

[RTLSHIP]

My tests consist of all throttle and only occasional pedaling when starting and going up bridges etc. Unfortunately or fortunately, it has been raining every afternoon for the past week and a half. We have wet and dry seasons here in S Fla.
Consequently, I'm not riding to work much. I suspect that my 48/15 Lifepo4 is still breaking in. Maybe 150 miles in 3 1/2 weeks so far.
Dogman, on that geared motor you can probably get 40 miles+ running on the slow turtle mode.

 

[RTLSHIP]

ajtest, what kind of ebike you ride?

 

[dogman dan]

Lots of tests yet to be done on the fusin gearmotor. I got real busy last weekend helping at a balloon rally. I earned myself a place on the crew of a balloon shaped like darth vader's hemet. We ( my balloon crew) really impressed the pilot with our skills. Very cool, now I get to go to the Albuquerque balloon fiesta with the most popular special shape balloon there the last 2 years. Very exclusive club. My wife thought I'd lost my mind wanting to hook up with a special shape balloon since they are freaking hard work to pack up. Then I reminded her that we both have pilots licences. Now she gets it 8) That balloon is going to be in my logbook someday. Google darth vader balloon to see the thing.

 

[RTLSHIP]

Dogman, you once mentioned that wind is the bane of every cyclists existence. Lack of wind means bugs in your face
down here. lots of gnats in the summer months.
If there is less than a 5 mph wind or wind is blocked off, gnats can be a problem, except at night when they go for the lights. Close to the beach we get less of them because of the breeze.
I'll live with wind.

 

[dogman dan]

One nice thing about the desert, a lot less bugs. One year we got crazy rain, and we remember it as the summer of the chiggers. Never knew we even had chiggers here. With the city growing, we need wind or choke on smog. But like all good things, too much is no fun. 40 mph afternoon breeze is hard to bike in even with a motor.

 

[RTLSHIP]

you guys get alot more hail. I saw this in Albuquerque. But the storm only lasted an hour.
Water-wise, most ebikes may have a basic water resistance. But additional steps need to be taken for duct tape packs. Of course, practically any ebike or battery pack would be damaged by heavy rain, falling into a pool, canal etc.

 

[dogman dan]

One of the best storms I have seen here, we got 3 inches in 45 minuites. Along with winds in excess of 75 mph. Some of that 3 inches was hail of course. 2 inches in one hour happens at least once a year in the summer. I carry a couple big garbage bags in case I get caught in that crap on the bike. One for me, one for the bike.

 

[RTLSHIP]

You should invest in a fisherman's type rain suit. both pants and top. Another bicyclist here at work has one. He shows up with dry clothes and lets the suit hang and dry out. $40 or 50 for the set.
Even if it stops raining, you'll still get a wet back & rear. fenders will only do so much.

 

[dogman dan]

Since I work outside, I generally stay home if it looks that bad, or drive a car if it's that unpredictable. 99% of these storms will hit in the late afternoon long after I am back home. Easy to carry some bags just in case I misjudge. Only 8 inches of rain here a year, and most storms just catch one neighborhood of the town. The urban heat bubble shooes most of em away anyway.

 

[RTLSHIP]

Generally, it does not rain in the morning hours. Nearly every afternoon we have a potential for thunderstorms or scattered showers.
The weather people can't pinpoint it. The Dopler radar helps for a 2 or 3 hour radius. In other words, I roll a dice whether
to bike or drive. to work. With cooler weather it's a different story.

 

[dogman dan]

While I was not paying attention, I passed mile 4000 the other day by 100 miles. I haven't tested total range in a long time, but have not noticed any loss. Hard to belive I have ridden 2000 miles since january.

 

[fifthmass]

My Ping 48v 20ah v1 is up to 2,600 miles in seven months use. Probably 120-140 cycles guesstimate.

Took it out for a max range test Saturday and got 820 watt-hours out of it (65.6 miles) before I noted that the voltage was sagging to 48 and less with my normal riding current (5-6 amps). Might have made 70-72 miles before LVC. I could feel it was getting close but in my case I think I'm easily getting 85-90% of it's nominal rating.

Keep it balanced and they're great batteries

Be safe,
Bill

 

[StevenR]

I am a Ping abuser. I have a 48V20aH v2 that I am trying to kill, or more accurately, I just want to have fun and am running the heck out of it. I run a Crystalyte 5303 and a Crystalyte 48V35A controller on an upright mountain bike. My CA indicates 1500 watts (35-40A, ~2C) continuous. In the city on short (10 mile) trips I use 30-35 Wh/mile with 40MPH max and average speed around 25MPH. I have about 2100 miles and probably 250 cycles.

I had issues with the high current cutout on the BMS so I wired around it. I set a voltage cutoff of 41 volts on the CA and, testing with the BMS in-line, the CA cuts out before the BMS. I may get a cell that goes out and this method may not catch it but the cell is dead and needs replacement anyway - trying to save it is useless. I check individual cell voltages compulsively so I hope to avoid a cell that drifts out of balance.

I use a Soneil 4808SRF SLA charger adjusted to 60.8. It does have balancing issues. I saw a dramatic decrease in capacity charging at 58.9V and had the problems go away when I bumped to 60.8V. I do not run it down very often. I need to take a 30+ mile ride to check total capacity. The most I have seen is about 17aH after 31 miles. I have some single cell chargers coming and will top everything off then give it a range test. Running high current output, balance is the issue. I will try the Ping charger I got with the battery to see if it has a better charge curve to allow balancing but it has such a low output voltage that I doubt it will do better.

My impressions after 2100 miles is that Ping ROCKS. If you need a full 20aH at 30+ amps, you may need to go Headway or tool packs or if you are anal about life expectancy and will scream if you don't have 85% at 1000 cycles, keep the output at 1C, but if you are satisfied with 15-18aH and think the battery is expandable and will need replacing when it needs replacing, disconnect the BMS on discharge and ROLL. That being said, other than when it went out of balance, the battery still seems about as strong as new. I never really tested it well enough to know if it ever put out a full 20aH at the load levels I run but even 15 is enough for my normal rides. If I don't have a catastrophe, I expect this battery to last at least another year - another 2500 miles - and it may not even get the chance. I have a48V10aH Headway on order from EVComponents and am in corresponance with Ping on a v3 48V20aH. The only reason I am looking for another battery is because I think I want to go to 50-60A continuous and this battery would melt down at those rates - I am into abuse but I guess out-and-out murder IS beyond me. It already gets pretty hot in the bag and I think it is bouncing around quite a bit too.

I will update again at about 3000 miles (mid September?)...

 

[dogman dan]

Right on! I'd like to see a 18650 pack from jimmy wu take that abuse. Clearly you have a set of robust cells, but just one weakling in there and you'd be singing a different tune. The cool thing is, Ping doesn't send out too many packs with a runt cell in them, so guys like you get away with murder. The only reason I don't slap my ping on my 5304 bike is that I need it to commute a long ways. So I'm torturing a nicad pack on that bike. I don't mind wearing out stuff early on the toys either, but the commuter bike is a tool, and needs to last. The money I'm saving ebiking to work is paying for the fun stuff.

 

[StevenR]

I killed the runt of the litter. One cell looks DOA - zero volts. I blew up at least two and probably four single cell chargers. The LED would go red then go back to green. I finally put an ammeter in line and saw one go to 3.5A or so then die. Another lasted a little longer. I put a 18V3A variable power supply on the connector (disconnected from the BMS - I was getting all sorts of weird cell voltage readings at the resistors until I disconnected the connector and measured with the BMS disconnected) and rammed 2.5-3 amps at it for a few hours - no joy.

I bought a Ping v3 48V20aH. No response from Ping yet on ship date (I just paypal'ed last night after long discussion - he must think I'm a pest and it felt good to finally give him an order after I badgered him so). I want to buy a couple cells for this battery - I know I have one deader but there may be another in there that is weak. I really want to dig into the guts of this thing but it is my transportation at the moment as well. It seems to be a just fine 42V15aH rig with one dead cell but I will tear into it when I have a new primary battery. As an ebike is my transportation at the moment, I am throwing money at batteries and soon will build ebike v2 so that v1 can be backup. I want have backups for everything so when the batteries get here all I need is a backup motor and I can put the old stuff on v1 and ride v2. Surley Pugsley frame and fork with 5303 rear mounted up front (the Pugsley has 135mm FORK spacing) and/or rear. Ping v3 and/or Headway 48V10aH (oh yeah, I ordered one of them from evcomponents too) and/or Ping v2 48V20aH. I think I will start an eBike v2 thread...

 

[StevenR]

I gave up on the dead cell and put the variable power supply on some of the low cells. They seem to be coming up nicely. This indicates that the BMS may not up to balancing a v2 pack under heavy loads, although I may have not been balancing properly for a long time (if ever) because of the low charging voltage and now because the dead cell won't let it. I will be cautious with the new pack and monitor the voltages, bringing up any low cells manually on a regular basis and doing it carefully before any long rides. The new Ping BMS is no better than the old one from a balancing perspective (per Ping himself - but it does have the lights to monitor it) but again, proper charging voltage is a must. I KILLED the cell by improper care although the supplied charger had inadequate voltage and caused me to set my Soniel to the same low voltage. I will get plenty of balancing practice and can build some hardware - 16 single cell chargers hooked to a Ping BMS plug or at least someting better than wires stuck in the holes - the current method.

I am chalking this first battery up to training. It took a long time of abuse due to ignorance to kill it and if I had known what to look for and how to look for it, it would never have happened or if that cell was bad from the start, I would have found it sooner. I needed the variable supply, a recent acquisition, to fix what was wrong, although a single cell charger would be fine too, if you don't pop them on dead cells. I opened one up and a cap had ballooned - I don't think it is supposed to be like that.

 

[dogman dan]

Mabye the bms didn't quite work right either? Well, at least you have a bunch of spare cells now, or could make a smaller boost pack to go with your new one.

 

[dogman dan]

Finaly I managed to kill the ol ping. Leaving it on a bike, plugged into a controller that was turned on, it got discharged to 6v for the whole pack. Apparently the bms failed to disconnect it when it got to lvc.

Had about 6000 miles on it at the time, in july of 2011. Estimated 600 cycles. It was still working fine, but when the bms was examined, one fet looked fried.

 

[wineboyrider]

Finaly I managed to kill the ol ping. Leaving it on a bike, plugged into a controller that was turned on, it got discharged to 6v for the whole pack. Apparently the bms failed to disconnect it when it got to lvc.

Had about 6000 miles on it at the time, in july of 2011. Estimated 600 cycles. It was still working fine, but when the bms was examined, one fet looked fried.

I have a about 2600 on my v2 36v 20ah ping and she's going strong. The 48v 15ah you got is still going for you right?
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[dogman dan]

Yes. about 225 cycles now. Still has 14 ah of capacity before the bms trips when used WOT the whole ride. About 23 miles at 25-27 mph. I remember getting 14.5 ah out of it before, but that was at 20 mph.

 

[Pure]

Finaly I managed to kill the ol ping. Leaving it on a bike, plugged into a controller that was turned on, it got discharged to 6v for the whole pack. Apparently the bms failed to disconnect it when it got to lvc.

Had about 6000 miles on it at the time, in july of 2011. Estimated 600 cycles. It was still working fine, but when the bms was examined, one fet looked fried.

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