Ping pack. Worry free, fool proof?

[SamTexas]

Hi all,

This is my first attempt in buying a Lithium battery. I have absolutely no desire to worry about taking care of the battery. I just want to use it and recharge it. I do not want to worry about over discharge, over charge or balancing.

Will a Ping pack (or equivalent Ebay daoji888) meet the above requirements? I'm looking at these 48V 15Ah packs to be used with my 350W front geared hub. I'm assuming that they are equivalent in performance and in longevity. Am I wrong?

http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-12/48V-15AH-V2.5-LiFePO4/Detail
http://cgi.ebay.com/48V-15AH-LiFePO4-Li-ion-Battery-Electric-Scooter-/290444223122?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439fd32292#ht_3949wt_982

Thanks,
Sam

 

[jimw1960]

A 48V15Ah Ping pack should be fine for a 35W motor. It also comes with a BMS circuit and charger that will eliminate any risk of overcharging or overdischarging. I've been very happy with my Ping battery, although the charger that came with it crapped out and had to be replaced. I don't think the one you linked to on ebay is equivalent to the Ping pack. I would stick with the Ping.

 

[dnmun]

ping has no equivalents. nobody knows squat about that ebay guy, whatever his ebay handle is now.

many people just repair the charger when it goes bad. usually just a drop of oil on the fan is all it takes. the little 100W charger he sells is actually a well designed SMPS charger. just small so it gets hot so you have to keep the charger out in the open air while charging.

ping is the one all the other ebay guys pretend to be. you will get total support after the sale. too much imo, but i'm not marketing anything either.

 

[SamTexas]

A 48V15Ah Ping pack should be fine for a 35W motor. It also comes with a BMS circuit and charger that will eliminate any risk of overcharging or overdischarging.

Thanks. How about balancing?

 

[dnmun]

that is what balancing entails. charging without overcharging. i recommend reducing the charger voltage initially down to 59V until the pack ages and needs more voltage to get to final balancing as the cells age and the Ri starts to spread out the cell voltages during charging.

 

[SamTexas]

that is what balancing entails. charging without overcharging. i recommend reducing the charger voltage initially down to 59V until the pack ages and needs more voltage to get to final balancing as the cells age and the Ri starts to spread out the cell voltages during charging.

Thanks.

I thought balancing involves keeping individual cells at the same voltage. Is it possible that some cells are too low and some are too high, but the combined voltage is within specs (not overcharging)? If so, isn't it bad?

Can you elaborate on the technical aspect of reducing the charger initial voltage to 59V? Is there some sort of "user dial" on the charger for doing that?

 

[dnmun]

no dial, you need to open the charger and adjust the little cermet inside to adjust the output voltage. it works fine at the 60V ping uses, but he does that because he wants the charger to be able to balance the pack later in its life. long after he has sold it when the cells begin to age and show dispersion in their internal resistance that causes the cell voltages during charging to spread out as it ages.

edit, i assume this is why ping sets the charger voltage to 60V. so imho.

 

[jimw1960]

If I understand correctly Sam, you are looking for hassle free and don't want to worry about adjusting voltages and having to do your own balancing. The ping battery is a good choice for that. The BMS circuit card that comes with the battery does the cell balancing for you. All this stuff about adjusting the voltage may help eek out a tiny bit more efficiency or battery life, but it certainly is not something you need to worry about doing. My ping charger doesn't even have any way to adjust the voltage without replacing components and that is just fine with me. By the way, what part of Texas are you in?

 

[SamTexas]

If I understand correctly Sam, you are looking for hassle free and don't want to worry about adjusting voltages and having to do your own balancing. The ping battery is a good choice for that.

Thanks jimw1960. Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for, hassle free.
I live in The Woodlands, a small city about 30 miles north of Houston. How about you?

 

[jimw1960]

San Antonio here.

 

[kriskros]

suggestion... get a second charger when you order the battery... its only about $40.00 that way if one craps out youre not without power... i did.. my first charger quit after about three vweeks.. ping replaced it immediately... over 1800 miles and no futher problems A DAMN GOOD MAN

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, just get the ping, and upgrade to his better 5 amp charger. Don't sweat the voltage of the charger too much, before long the chargers output voltage will drop a bit. If you use the ping at low discharge rates like the 350 watts you mention, it should last a looooooong time. I have about 6000 miles on one ping and another 1500 or so on another with no problems other than broken wires on charger plugs. If you don't ride far, charge when you are 50% discharged or so. If you do ride far, then try to keep it from going to 100% discharged if you can. I ride 30 miles a day, and charge all day at work, ride home, and leave it on the charger all night.

If you want to try the ebay guy, don't do it because you can't afford the ping. Do it because you can afford to buy the ping and the ebay battery, and you feel like it's worth the chance. It might be fine, but if it's not, best if it's not your last dollar down the tubes.

 

[SamTexas]

suggestion... get a second charger when you order the battery...

Thanks.

If you do ride far, then try to keep it from going to 100% discharged if you can.

I don't plan to discharge 100%, mainly to extend the battery life. But when the need arises, I will drain it completely. There is NO RISK of overdischarge, right? The BMS is supposed to protect the battery from overdischarging, correct?

If you want to try the ebay guy, don't do it because you can't afford the ping. Do it because you can afford to buy the ping and the ebay battery, and you feel like it's worth the chance. It might be fine, but if it's not, best if it's not your last dollar down the tubes.

Thanks for the voice of reason. Makes perfect sense to me. Yes I can afford to buy both, but I still am very tempted with daoji888 product. His product looks almost identical to Ping's, down to the weight and external dimensions. In my mind, the extra $100 is basically insurance for the Ping pack. 25% of the merchandise price for a 2 year warranty seems a little steep for me.

 

[thewmatusmoloki]

There is a faily hefty difference in the performance, lifespan and probably construction of the 2 batteries you listed.

This part of the specs for each battery is key:

For the daoji888 battery - Max Continuous Discharging: 15A

For the Ping battery - Max Continuous Discharging Amperage: 30 Amps

If you just want to plug in and leave the bike overnight, with years of maintainance free life then the ping is without doubt the right choice.

Having said that, I've dealt with daoji888 a few times and he seems ok. But I only got charger's off him.

 

[SamTexas]

For the daoji888 battery - Max Continuous Discharging: 15A

For the Ping battery - Max Continuous Discharging Amperage: 30 Amps

Thanks. I forgot to mention that difference. I will be using the battery to drive a 350W front geared hub, so 15A is more than sufficient for me.

Having said that, I've dealt with daoji888 a few times and he seems ok. But I only got charger's off him.

That's good to know.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Better to run a pack below the rated current, instead of at the rated current. I would suggest the ping just based on this, plus he has a reputation for good service.

 

[wineboyrider]

Better to run a pack below the rated current, instead of at the rated current. I would suggest the ping just based on this, plus he has a reputation for good service.

+1 Exactly good advice!

 

[auraslip]

Minus the low c-rate and high cost, Ping is everything an ebike battery should be; I've had mine in a box on my bike for 6 months now. The only time I touch it is when I plug the charger in, or switch the bike on. Completely worry free.

That being said, I'm upgrading to something that can put out more power.

As dnum said, "their is no equivalent for ping."

And really, they have some great customer support.

Oh and do what dogman say's and get the 5 amp charger cause there will be a time where you'll REALLY need your bike charged up quick!

 

[dogman dan]

The 5 amp charger is also simply better built. My last ping came with a free 2 amp, and it toasted in days. Ping realized that run of cheap chargers had a defect, and replaced it with the upgrade charger for free. Try to get that out of an ebayer.

For a second charger you can use almost anything. I've kept super cheap sla chargers at work for three years now, so every other charge is with an sla charger. I get my higher volt balance charge at home with the ping chargers.

As for Daoj--- on ebay, he seems to be a seller you can trust. He's been in buisness under that name for quite awhile. The V power HK batteries he sells are reported to be of decent quality construction. They just haven't quite gotten the reputation for good quality that pings batteries have developed. Pings cells are definitely capable of 2c, and 3c bursts. But it's still agreed among us, that using them at 1c is best. I use mine at about 1-1.5c. With a 15 amp controller, you'd be at 1c for sure with a 15 amp hour vpower, so I see no problem with that at all.

Daoj--- is NOT that character that changed his Ebay name monthly and sent out obviously defective batteries to suckers only to reappear under another name in a month. Two years ago, that other guy burned a lot of people.

 

[SamTexas]

Better to run a pack below the rated current, instead of at the rated current. I would suggest the ping just based on this, plus he has a reputation for good service.

Yes, I'm aware of the good reputation. As for running below the rated current, that's my intention. 15A at 48V is 720W, my geared front hub is a 350W.

Oh and do what dogman say's and get the 5 amp charger cause there will be a time where you'll REALLY need your bike charged up quick!

Yes, sounds like a good idea. Do you have the dimensions and weight of the 5 amp charger?

 

[SamTexas]

For a second charger you can use almost anything. I've kept super cheap sla chargers at work for three years now, so every other charge is with an sla charger. I get my higher volt balance charge at home with the ping chargers.

I did not know that. Thanks. How many cells in series are required to get 48V? 48/3.3 = 14.55. So is it 14 or 15 cells?

Using the 48V SLA charger, how full can you charge the 48V Ping pack? 60%, 70% or what? I assume (again) that there is absolutely no danger in overcharging, right.

As for Daoj--- on ebay, he seems to be a seller you can trust. He's been in buisness under that name for quite awhile. The V power HK batteries he sells are reported to be of decent quality construction. They just haven't quite gotten the reputation for good quality that pings batteries have developed. Pings cells are definitely capable of 2c, and 3c bursts. But it's still agreed among us, that using them at 1c is best. I use mine at about 1-1.5c. With a 15 amp controller, you'd be at 1c for sure with a 15 amp hour vpower, so I see no problem with that at all.

Daoj--- is NOT that character that changed his Ebay name monthly and sent out obviously defective batteries to suckers only to reappear under another name in a month. Two years ago, that other guy burned a lot of people.

I'm confused. Are we talking about two separate individuals? Is daoji888 the same as Daoj--- ???

 

[cell_man]

Hi Sam,

sorry to but in, but the 350W kit is intended to be used at 36V, not 48V. It has a 17A controller, so over 800W max if you run it at 48V. I don't recommend you over volt these motors and controllers. If you want a kit to run at higher power levels like that you should be thinking about a more powerful motor and controller combination like a Mac or Bafang BPM with an Infineon IMO.

What range do you require? The 350W kit if ran at the intended voltage of 36V should give you about 10Whrs/km. A 48V 15Ah battery has enough energy to give you close to 50 mile range using the motor as is intended. Just for info, my A123 12S 4P (39.6V nom 9.2Ah) pack with 30A continuous BMS, sells for 350USD w/o charger. I've used a pack like that to run a 50A plus controller with output power of about 2500W (at 36V), 30C rated A123 cells.

48V is typically 16 series LiFePO4 cells, but some use a 15S LiFePO as 48V.

Cheers
Paul

 

[dogman dan]

Very true, the small wattage gearmotors don't like overwatting, unless the rides are very short allowing excess heat to go away before the next run.

I've heard of bafangs runing ok on 48v, with 15 amp 48v controllers. But the riders were real pedalers, who would pedal for miles and use the motor only on the the hill.

 

[SamTexas]

Hi Sam,

sorry to but in, but the 350W kit is intended to be used at 36V, not 48V. It has a 17A controller, so over 800W max if you run it at 48V. I don't recommend you over volt these motors and controllers.

Not a problem at all, Paul. In fact I'm glad you joined the discussion. Here's how I plan to use my bike with your 350W front hub: I will always be pedaling. The motor will be assisting me on uphills and in headwinds. I envision the average power consumed by the motor to be around 250W, hopefully much lower than 200. Obviously, there will be short burst of powers, but I doubt I will ever reach the max 816W imposed by your controller. The battery pack 15A rating is the "CONTINUOUS Max Discharge" while the "Maximum Discharging Current" is 30A (1440W at 48V). So I should be within the operating parameters, right? Since the motor and controller will mostly be underutilized, I don't anticipate overheating problems. Or am I missing something?

I'm fully aware that your kit is intended to be used at 36V. I want to use 48V because the same battery pack might be used for some other future toys as well.

dogman, I welcome your thoughts on this too.

 

[mwarner]

How do I contact Ping to get detailed installation instructions, and operating procedures? There doesn't appear to be any contact links on their website.

Michael