Ping pack. Worry free, fool proof?
- Thread starter SamTexas
- Start date
cell_man
100 kW
SamTexas said:
The controller will hit the current limit quite easily I can assure you. You are staying within the operating limits of the battery but by overvolting the motor and controller you are not staying within those of the motor and controller. Will it be ok, probably, but if you don't want the additional speed or power stick to the standard 36V that it was intended for.
dnmun
1 PW
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SamTexas
1 MW
cell_man said:
Thanks Paul. Once again, I am fully aware that your 350W geared kit is designed for 36V. If I use it at 48V and something breaks, I have no one to blame but myself.
That said, I'm still very confused. Please keep in mind that I'm new to hub motors and controllers, so perhaps the confusion is caused by the lack of certain very basic understanding. But I'm not afraid to learn.
- Why would the controller hit the current limit EASIER/QUICKER on 48V than 36V? Current is current. 17A is 17A, whether at 48V or 36V. It sounds to me that this not a current limit issue, but rather a power limit issue: At 36V and 17A, the max power is 612W. But at 48V, that max power happens much earlier at 12.75A. Am I completely off track here?
- What happens when the "current limit" is hit? Is power cut off or is power still allowed to be consumed but not at a higher rate?
dogman dan
1 PW
You have it about right, the controller will feed 17 amps. So increase the voltage, and you increase the wattage. Every time you start, the pingbattery will supply 52-58v ( 48v ping charges to 60v). that 56 volts or so will flow at at least 17 amps till you get rolling. So you'll pull almost 1000 watts for 30 seconds or so. Then for another 30 seconds you will pull at least 2/3 of that, Say 650 watts. So if you stop throttling then completely, you'll be ok. In the real world, though, people don't, and use about 600 watts to cruise at 25 mph. Cruising on 36v, at 20 mph wattage may only be 350. So you see the 36v setup is better for the long haul.
The problem is when you come to a big hill, or ride too far. You should be easily able to kill a small gearmotor with the capacity and wattage of a 15 ah 48v ping avaliable, and the ride has some good hills.
If you do go 48v, then you really should be monitoring temperature of the axle stub, and stop if it ever gets above about 140 F on the stub.
The problem is when you come to a big hill, or ride too far. You should be easily able to kill a small gearmotor with the capacity and wattage of a 15 ah 48v ping avaliable, and the ride has some good hills.
If you do go 48v, then you really should be monitoring temperature of the axle stub, and stop if it ever gets above about 140 F on the stub.
wineboyrider
1 MW
Dogman's got it right. But, to add to it a 36v 20ah ping is the same size, but can go longer (more ah's than a 48v 15ah. I have the geared mini motor and a 36v ping and it can go many more miles than any of my motors, because it uses so little energy. I can go 45 miles on one 36v 20ah charge of my ping and average around 18mph. So if I go on long trips I love the mini motor. I have run the minmotor at higher voltage 12s lipo for short trips and it didn't seem to warm up too much though. I've been having too much fun riding my new BMC high speed motor lately though
johnrobholmes
10 MW
Motors have both a current limit and a power limit, go past either and the overheating begins.
On a higher voltage, the coils of a motor will pass higher currents. Basic Ohm's law, Current = Voltage/ resistance. Resistance of the motor does not change. Thus, when you volt up a motor it will make the controller work harder to keep currents below the set level.
On a higher voltage, the coils of a motor will pass higher currents. Basic Ohm's law, Current = Voltage/ resistance. Resistance of the motor does not change. Thus, when you volt up a motor it will make the controller work harder to keep currents below the set level.
SamTexas
1 MW
Thanks dogman, wineboyrider and johnrobholmes.
Unless I missed something from your explanations above, there is no such thing as a "power limit" in the controller. So basically the controller will keep feeding power to the motor until the controller's current limit is reached, regardless of voltage. Correct?
Unless I missed something from your explanations above, there is no such thing as a "power limit" in the controller. So basically the controller will keep feeding power to the motor until the controller's current limit is reached, regardless of voltage. Correct?
dogman dan
1 PW
The controller will limit amps. But current is in watts, amps x volts. So current gets bigger if volts gets bigger.
Mabye the 36v 15 ah ping would be just right for you? even cheaper and less weight. But on a small gearmotor, riding 20 mph, you'd still have lots of range even if you used 600 watts in full throttle cruising mode. Pedal more, pulse and glide, and hypermiling could get you 30 miles of range.
Mabye the 36v 15 ah ping would be just right for you? even cheaper and less weight. But on a small gearmotor, riding 20 mph, you'd still have lots of range even if you used 600 watts in full throttle cruising mode. Pedal more, pulse and glide, and hypermiling could get you 30 miles of range.
arnie1
10 mW
These forums are full of Lipo discussion. Five years ago it was Optima SLA. Then NiCad and NIMH. A few years ago LiFePO4 came on the scene with questions about "Duct Tape E-Bay batteries." Batteries once thought of as cheap are now the well regarded Ping battery.
Lipo is powerful but not yet ready for commuter use. Ping's have the advantage of plug and forget charging. No worrying about fires. Abusing LiFePO4 leads to exclaiming aw sh!t, not an insurance claim.
I'm planning my next build around a low kV motor driving through a Nuvinci hub. Hopefully in a couple years Lipo's, RC motors, and controllers will be sufficiently matured technology for use in a commuter bike. Until then I'll stick with vanilla plain but reliable LiFePO4 and Crystalyte that provide 20+mph on the flats and 30 mile range.
Lipo is powerful but not yet ready for commuter use. Ping's have the advantage of plug and forget charging. No worrying about fires. Abusing LiFePO4 leads to exclaiming aw sh!t, not an insurance claim.
I'm planning my next build around a low kV motor driving through a Nuvinci hub. Hopefully in a couple years Lipo's, RC motors, and controllers will be sufficiently matured technology for use in a commuter bike. Until then I'll stick with vanilla plain but reliable LiFePO4 and Crystalyte that provide 20+mph on the flats and 30 mile range.
dogman dan
1 PW
If you think lipo isn't ready, you aren't paying attention. But the user may not be ready, ever. But right now the cells are good, the only thing lacking is less expensive 12s chargers.
Still, you can't beat a pouch cell lifepo4 like pings for a commuter bike battery when the bike is using 20 amp controllers. Mine are looking willing and able to last years and years. My old v1 ping is almost 3 years old now.
Still, you can't beat a pouch cell lifepo4 like pings for a commuter bike battery when the bike is using 20 amp controllers. Mine are looking willing and able to last years and years. My old v1 ping is almost 3 years old now.
999zip999
100 TW
Hay Dogman, I have push my Ping well beone it's limits 40 amp. controller the C.A. has problems with my crstallyte controller since the rains so running bare and had blown bms for 4 weeks and my battery was just find with all that load hook up the new bms and it all was blinkie I brought A Lyen con. But have not got the andersons and bullets yet. But well set the controller to 30amps. soon Yes the 5 amp chargher works grest and PING is a GREAT MAN yes if you had a uncle it would be MISTER PING if you had that Luck... Buy Buy Buy watch the amps. Thanks...
dogman dan
1 PW
Yeah, some have gotten away with amazing amps from a ping. Personally, I've see mine get pretty out of balance and sag like mad with enough amp spikes in the 30 amp ballpark. Didn't seem to damage it, but voltage dropped a lot, and only 4 ah was used from a 15. That was in last springs death race. It took a few cycles for it to perk back up, but it seemed like I permanently lost about 2v.
999zip999
100 TW
Yes my 4840 crstalyte is on the ping the wry It was sold to me as rock solid, but I think it only pulls 33amps. and I have been very hard on battery.I live in so cal. and the spandex love boys that ride the 5000usd.bikes and passe on P.C.H. .but I'm still very found of my Ping. Ping and all suportfor the man Mister Ping Yes....
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
No problems on my Ping 52 volt 20 amp after 800 miles.
I regularly pull 40 amps on acceleration and hill climbing and it never fails to balance all cells nearly at the same time, good batteries those Pings. I have not lost a single amp as yet either! I don't allow full discharges too often but now and again if I need to use all the capacity, I use it. No point having a battery if you can't use all of it. It's not like lipo where you should leave maybe 20%.
Now if Ping could offer higher C cells at the same price that would be cool, and a faster than 5 amp charge would be the icing on the cake!
It would also be cool if Ping got into lipo.
I long for the day I can get a 72 volt 50 amp abttery for the same size and price as a 36 volt 10 amp ping! :lol:
batteries seem to be getting much better at discharge rates, but so far not in capacity?
I regularly pull 40 amps on acceleration and hill climbing and it never fails to balance all cells nearly at the same time, good batteries those Pings. I have not lost a single amp as yet either! I don't allow full discharges too often but now and again if I need to use all the capacity, I use it. No point having a battery if you can't use all of it. It's not like lipo where you should leave maybe 20%.
Now if Ping could offer higher C cells at the same price that would be cool, and a faster than 5 amp charge would be the icing on the cake!
It would also be cool if Ping got into lipo.
I long for the day I can get a 72 volt 50 amp abttery for the same size and price as a 36 volt 10 amp ping! :lol:
batteries seem to be getting much better at discharge rates, but so far not in capacity?
StevenR
100 W
Ping is all good. I have a 48V20aH v3 (unadvertised but available if you ask). 5000 miles in 18 months and still over spec. I have abused it badly with the 60 amp BMS tripping frequently when I drive a 5303 with one of methods monster controllers. I usually run a 48V40A controller with no BMS cutouts. It balances flawlessly if you just leave it charging all the time if you use it daily. Order a 5A charger from him as well as the little one. Put them in parallel for a fast charge. Oh yeah. I abuse the battery with 10A (0.5C) charges. If you ventilate the BMS, it seems happy.
Overall, Ping is the most reliable supplier out there. Go to the Ping Battery website directly, not on ebay.
http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/StoreFront
Overall, Ping is the most reliable supplier out there. Go to the Ping Battery website directly, not on ebay.
http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/StoreFront
arnie1
10 mW
Order a 5A charger from him as well as the little one. Put them in parallel for a fast charge. Oh yeah. I abuse the battery with 10A (0.5C) charges. If you ventilate the BMS, it seems happy.
SteveR-
What is the Ping V3 battery? What is different compared to the V2.5? I have two 5 amp chargers. One for work and one for home. I wondered if they could be used together for fast charging on the road. Sounds like you are doing this with the 5A and small charger.
Riding season is getting close and I need to get a battery. Lipo's are tempting but I cannot babysit Lipo's while charging at work. I'd need 1600 watt-hours of Lipo to get by with charging only at home. It's 44 miles round trip.
SteveR-
What is the Ping V3 battery? What is different compared to the V2.5? I have two 5 amp chargers. One for work and one for home. I wondered if they could be used together for fast charging on the road. Sounds like you are doing this with the 5A and small charger.
Riding season is getting close and I need to get a battery. Lipo's are tempting but I cannot babysit Lipo's while charging at work. I'd need 1600 watt-hours of Lipo to get by with charging only at home. It's 44 miles round trip.
dnmun
1 PW
we have seen several of the ping v2.5 signalab burn up the charging mosfet so you should try to keep it cool if you push 10A through it with 2 chargers in parallel.
