Placing orders, could an experienced user please verify

[Bogus]

Hello, I am finally buying the parts to build my first ebike

Bike: http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadmaster-Granite-Peak-Men-s-Bike-Black-Green/48520136?reviews_limit=10&
Kit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/371289491857
Battery: http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/48v/48v-panasonic-11-5ah-or-13-5ah-dolphin/

Is a torque arm set necessary for this motor?

If there is a cheaper battery that will charge at 5amp? I will gladly take suggestions!

 

[wesnewell]

Cheap steel bike should work fine. I've never used torque arms on steel dropouts and never had a problem. Just get the axle nuts good and tight. Check after every ride for a while to see if the nuts come loose. Decent kit. That battery may be ok. Personally, I use nothing but rc lipo. My last purchase for 20ah of 12s was $180. I would never buy any 18650 battery pack, but A lot of people do.

 

[dogman dan]

Cheap steel bike, fine. But not the single worst bike ever made in the world. Not the roadbastard. I had a brand new one fall apart in literally 200 miles. And I'm not any kind of noob for bike maintenance. The crank gears actually bent from normal pedaling, and the brakes never could be made to work well. ( Looks like they did improve the brakes since then though)

Spend a few bucks more, get into the $150 price range at Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Schwinn-Sidewinder-Men-s-Mountain-Bike-Matte-Black-Green/26999374

In many ways, the best steel bike you could choose would be a 7 speed beach cruiser.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Men-s-Kent-Bayside-Cruiser-Bike/47443494

Other than the roadbastard, I see no problems, provided all the parts of the cheap kit work. Usually they do, but even the expensive kits still get a dud part from time to time.

One torque arm on the left side still a good idea, but the steel frame does make it possible to do without, provided you keep those nuts tight. You can easily home make a torque plate for the bike from a scrap of steel, using a drill and file.

 

[dogman dan]

I'm not a big fan of fat bikes. But I do like a larger tire, 2.5" or so.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Huffy-Men-s-Fortress-Mountain-Bike-Blue/49058108

I'd been thinking for a few years, 3" tire is all you really need unless actually at a beach. Why not a mid fat bike? Somebody else must agree.

and again, a slightly better bike than the roadbastard.

 

[wesnewell]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that mid fat too. The price is certainly right. I may give it a try, if for nothing else, the bigger frame with my 2.5" wheels. They should be in the local Walmart in about a week.

 

[Bogus]

Thank you friends

If you could kindly point me to where I can spend $180 on 20ah I would forever be in your debt!

 

[wesnewell]

Catch rc lipo on sale here.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__86__85__Batteries_Accessories-Li_Poly_All_brands_.html
I've actually bought 2 sets for $180 each in the last few months. With shipping each came to $217.

 

[Bogus]

OK so should I buy just 4S or 4S1P? Is 20C OK or should I go higher?

Will I need 24S1P or 12S1P total for 40mph?

Edit: this looks like what I need but it's on backorder: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_Hardcase_Pack.html

I can get 12 of these for like $250 and make (I'm guessing) a 9ah 24s config or 18ah 12s config is that a good idea?: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=8918

What is a good alternative though that's in stock? ? I'd really like that 5C charge rate not 2C


Also, I am returning the Granite Peak bike, the chain is already falling off the gears with each shift

 

[wesnewell]

You can buy whatever you want. I started out with 4s packs and stayed with them, but 6s packs makes things a little easier.
If you want a 40 mph cruise speed (meaning continuous), You'll need a whole different motor kit. A 1000W motor isn't capable of continued speeds that high without burning up. And the controller that comes with the kit won't support the voltage you need to reach 40 mph, so you'd need a new controller too. If you aren't reall heavy, you can reach 40 mph on 20s. I run 24s.
Those are the same battery I use. I bought 12 of them for $15 each on sale.
Charge rate for rc lipo is recommended at 1C. So if you have a 5ah pack, that's 5A, 10ah - 10A, etc. the max charge rate on those packs is 5C, 25A, but I wouldn't go more than 1C for longevity.
Take a look at that Huffy Fortress 3.0. I think I'm going to buy one today to replace my Mongoose ledge for more tire room with my wheels.

 

[Bogus]

So is 24s overkill for the motor I bought? I saw in your signature that you have the same kit I bought and run at 24s.

As for wiring of the batteries do I need like anything special to keep em together or will just plugging two together, red to black make a 12s1P configuration? Sorry I seriously have 0 knowledge of battery technology! I'm kinda learning as I go.

And what exactly does 's' stand for? Is that an indication of voltage?

Thank you for your patience

 

[Jon NCal]

s means number of cells in series.

Also take a look at the 6S 8000mah Multistars, I think they were on sale for $50 each. Need 2 for 12S.

 

[renstyle]

And the controller that comes with the kit won't support the voltage you need to reach 40 mph, so you'd need a new controller too. If you aren't reall heavy, you can reach 40 mph on 20s. I run 24s.
Those are the same battery I use. I bought 12 of them for $15 each on sale.

If somebody plans on sticking with the stock controller that comes with this kit, at least initially, what is the voltage range it can handle "out of the box" with no modifications?

I was looking at this kit for bike 2.0, with an eye for upgrading the controller down the line. The voltage range the stock controller supports would let me plan the next battery purchase. A 12S pack at the low end, could stock handle 18S or 20S on the top end?

 

[Bogus]

s means number of cells in series.

Also take a look at the 6S 8000mah Multistars, I think they were on sale for $50 each. Need 2 for 12S.

OK so what is the difference here? 12S can do half the power output of 24s? Would 24s be unnecessary on a 1000W Chinese motor kit?

 

[leo99]

Hi Bogus,

Is this your first build ? or the first time with lipo ? if so I would avoid going with lipo as it is more complicated and there is risk if not used properly possibly start of fire. With care lipo packs offer great value but for a first build I would avoid it. 18650 cells packs are more put it and forget about it.

that's my 2cents

leo

 

[renstyle]

s means number of cells in series.

Also take a look at the 6S 8000mah Multistars, I think they were on sale for $50 each. Need 2 for 12S.

OK so what is the difference here? 12S can do half the power output of 24s? Would 24s be unnecessary on a 1000W Chinese motor kit?

A 12S Lipo pack will give you 50.4V when fully charged (each cell @ 4.2V). The included controller would definitely support that pack, but I'm unsure what top end/range may be.

A 24S pack would top out at 100.8V, which is likely more voltage than the controller can handle. FWIR the stock controllers on most of these kits only supply 25-30A maximum current to the motor (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here).

Others have upgraded/replaced their controller with a different part that can handle 24S allowing more current (40A+) to get to the motor, but as others have mentioned this type of motor isn't robust enough to handle that much current & power on a regular basis.

Looking around here, I've read others able to run 18S (72V nominal, 75.6V fully charged) packs with this type of controller with little modification.

 

[Bogus]

Yeah this is my first build! I'm thinking about money right now mostly but safety is definitely a concern.

I'm about to buy 8 of these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__57572__ZIPPY_Flightmax_3000mAh_6S1P_20C_AR_Warehouse_.html

If I make 4 pairs in series then parallel those into one large 12s1P 12Ah battery will that work for my bike?

 

[wesnewell]

The kit you have listed is limited by the display to 60V max. That would be a 14s pack. A typical 48V controller is limited to 63V max, 15s pack. The voltage of the capacitors in it. 24s means 24 cells in series. For lipo, that's 100.8V fully charged. 88.8V nominal.
Those batteries are expensive compared to what you can buy on sale. You can get the same amount of wh for about 1/3 that price. those are 78 cents per wh. I paid ~20 cents per wh. My 888wh pack cost $180, or 20.27 cents per wh.

BTW. I picked up one of those Huffy bikes today. Looks great.

 

[Bogus]

Ok so 12S is my target, got it!

I think for simplicity sake I'm going to buy two of these (they can handle 30C out and 5C in!):
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58824__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C_AR_Warehouse_.html

And to get them wired up I'll use:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__64372__XT60_Harness_for_2_Packs_in_Series_1pc_AR_Warehouse_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__64363__Nylon_XT60_Connectors_Male_Female_5_pairs_GENUINE_AR_Warehouse_.html

Now is there a good charger on Hobbyking or should I look else where? And are the batteries supposed to be charged independently or can they be plugged in while in parallel?

Thanks for all the help Wes and everyone!!

 

[wesnewell]

There's so many ways to safely charge them I don't know where to start.
1 Use a 12s balance charger for all at once.May be hard to find. but this one gets good reviews.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw
2 Use a bms for all at once.
3 parallel charge them all at once.
4 Bulk charge all at once. Use battery medics to balance. Most times I don't.

Wiring a bms to the pack makes for the easiest charging. And probaly the cheapest overall. But at least buy one cheap rc charger to test individual packs. You can parallel charge with it until you decide what you want to do. There's some good videos on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=charging+lipo

 

[Bogus]

Ok I ended up going with this guy since I'll only have two batteries to charge:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=72281
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=70998


I think I've got everything!
-Bike and accessories
-Motor Kit
-Batteries, connectors, charger

This is gonna be fun! Now I wait...

 

[Eteck]

I think for simplicity sake I'm going to buy two of these (they can handle 30C out and 5C in!):
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58824__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C_AR_Warehouse_.html

Two batteries For a total of 8AH 12S ?

Expect about a 3 mi range with this 48V kit:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371289491857

That kit needs at least 17-20 AH for any real range.

EDIT
These are RC LiPoly type batteries so I guess they will do better than 3mi.
With a 60% discharge level maybe 4 to 7 mi range at 25mph ? What would the LiPo experts estimate ?
END EDIT

EDIT
The highest bid so far is around 7 to 9 miles for 44.4V x 8AH = .3552 KWH LiPoly discharge rate on the 1000W hub doing 25mph (battery charge and discharge depth unspecified).
END EDIT

 

[motomech]

Ok I ended up going with this guy since I'll only have two batteries to charge:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=72281
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=70998


I think I've got everything!
-Bike and accessories
-Motor Kit
-Batteries, connectors, charger

This is gonna be fun! Now I wait...

Man, this went by fast!I I missed it.
You made a big mistake by not getting a charging system that allows 12S bulk charging without breaking(serial dis-connecting)the pack.
Dis-connecting and re-connecting the pack to discharge(run the motor) and then to charge gets old, invites mistakes and is hard on connectors. It also makes it harder to keep the cells balanced.
One of the great things about 12S Lipo is, there are many options to use a power supply(Mean Wells are the best)that charge up to 50.4V and then to balance w/the new Turnigy cell checkers/balancers elimitnating the need to remove the battery pack from the bike, let alone beaking it dow3n.
search my posts if you are interested in how it's done.

 

[Bogus]

Lol OK I just canceled the order

Could you estimate what 16ah would get me? 32ah?

What charger should I get? I like to one Wes suggested but are there others to consider?

 

[motomech]

Good, did you order any batteries yet?
I have been using Lipo for years, but there has been some recent products that have come avail. that make LIpo better than ever.
I just bought 12S(50.4 V fully charged)/20 Ah(enough for 40 miles) for $237 shipped from Hobby King!
But right now HK is putting different stuff on sale and then quickly changing it.

I bought the new Multistar batteries and love them;
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63045&start=125
Also on this page are pics of my Meanwell industrial power supply, designed for powering LED light displays. It's adjustable and can charge a 12S pack without "breaking"the pack down. It's not a balance charger, so one needs to clip-on Battery Medics(one for each brick)to balance/ck the cell. This has been a problem because the quality of the BM's has gone down. But now, there is a new discharger/checker from our fav.Lipo Co. Turnigy and it looks good.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26136__Turnigy_DLUX_LIPO_Battery_Cell_Display_and_Balancer_2S_6S_.html
The idea is to keep things simple and buy as big a brick that will fit on the bike and to use as few of them as possible to get the Voltage you want. All around, 12S works out the best.
Let me see what Batt.s are on sale now and I will get back.
You can also go back thru my posts(Control Board-search user's posts)to see other discussions on Lipo and bulk charging.

Where are you at??
It matters because HK has different warehouses.
Profile please.

 

[motomech]

Well, you have the Good Eye, as the ones you linked look like the best deal right now, 16 Ah for $160 plus shipping from the US West warehouse.
These are BIG, so you would have to be sure they will fit where you have in mind.
On the other hand, like you said, only two bricks for max simplistity.
They are "stiff" too. 30C is a high discharge rate, more than you will need really.
16Ah should be good upto 30 miles, depending on speed and how much the rider puts in.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58824__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C_AR_Warehouse_.html