999zip999
100 TW
Do you have lipo experience ? Icecube57 makes an ez harness. Read about lipo first and cycle to look for duds. Nice to have a150watt or more charger. Get a cellog for ez checking.
Placing orders, could an experienced user please verify
- Thread starter Bogus
- Start date
If you bought 4 of these:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58824__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C_AR_Warehouse_.html
at $60 apiece that would be ~48V at 16AH for $240.
EDIT
For lead acid and GP Lithium Ion batteries in a 16AH pack :
END EDIT
I would estimate the range at 25mph would be somewhere between 5 and 10 miles.
If you drive slow like 14-16mph, the range will go way up to between 10 to 20 miles.
There are just too many factors to give an exact estimate.
You can start with just 8AH of batteries but you should be aware the range will be very low - perhaps less than 2mi at full throttle.
EDIT
With the RC LiPolys these figures will be significantly higher, since they can deliver the stored energy in a time frame more consistent with a typical bike ride.
END EDIT
motomech
10 MW
So exactly what are you powering with your Lipo, a Volt or a Prius?Eteck said:
I knew it.
Hard to say what the range is for "16 AH" for those popular 48V 1000W kits. Different batteries have different discharge characteristics. Those particular batteries may
be able to deliver nearly the full AH rating at a short or medium rate, others may not. I know when I got into this my expectations were not always met based on what
I read so if it's too low then good - the user won't be disappointed.
Other factors such as how many city stops you make to bring the bike back to speed and how aggressive you are on the throttle can limit range.
One really good hill can take a lot out of a smaller battery pack, larger traction biased tires can induce more friction loss, etc, etc.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
40 MPH ?
on a SlaveMart bike ?
NO !
What kind of health insurance do you have ? How many months can you miss work and still have your job ?
Bought life insurance yet ?
Get a used Downhill / Enduro / or Freeride Bike !
If you want to go fast, remember that SlaveMart Bikes are made for people who ride at speeds of 4-7 mph and even then for short distances,
You really want a good bike if you want to go fast.
on a SlaveMart bike ?
NO !
What kind of health insurance do you have ? How many months can you miss work and still have your job ?
Bought life insurance yet ?
Get a used Downhill / Enduro / or Freeride Bike !
If you want to go fast, remember that SlaveMart Bikes are made for people who ride at speeds of 4-7 mph and even then for short distances,
You really want a good bike if you want to go fast.
Bogus said:OK so should I buy just 4S or 4S1P? Is 20C OK or should I go higher?
Will I need 24S1P or 12S1P total for 40mph?
Edit: this looks like what I need but it's on backorder: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_Hardcase_Pack.html
I can get 12 of these for like $250 and make (I'm guessing) a 9ah 24s config or 18ah 12s config is that a good idea?: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=8918
What is a good alternative though that's in stock? ? I'd really like that 5C charge rate not 2C
Also, I am returning the Granite Peak bike, the chain is already falling off the gears with each shift
motomech
10 MW
He was advised about sensible speeds and quickly adapted to the idea a dozen or so posts back.ScooterMan101 said:
So please, spare us the histrionics.
wesnewell
100 GW
What a load of crap elitist BS. Assuming you mean Walmart, they don't make bikes, they just sell different brands.The same ones you can buy at most specialty stores where you pay premium prices for the same bike. Now I've never had mine faster than 61.4 mph, and never under 10 mph. I weigh 270 lbs and have been using the same Mongoose Ledge 2.1 bike bought at Walmart for $99 for over 3 years with ~12K miles on it. Sick of this BS.ScooterMan101 said:
Grizzl-E
100 W
Are you commuting every day with this bike or is it just for fun?
Wesnell and motomech, no disrespect but you guys are pushing him pretty hard on lipo. How many packs did you ruin when you started with lipo, or ebikes?
The qustions in this thread indicate a lack of knowledge to a dangerous level for rc lipo. Im not yelling fire like some guys on here. But do you really think this guy is going to get good cycle life out of lipo packs? All it takes is an initial imbalance and a lvc not set right, or leaving them fully charged for a week to damage them. And if he doesn't understand voltage well enough that he has to ask these questions do you really want to encourage charging with power supplies? Does he have or know how to use a dmm to set them up?
Again no disrespect meant but for a first time user who may not have enough time to research all this stuff. It is a disservice to not explain the bad sides of lipo. And yes I love them too for a purpose but I also deal with a ton of end users every day.
OP don't underestimate the value of a plug and play battery for your first ebike. Or any ebike if you are a busy individual who has to charge every day.
Wesnell and motomech, no disrespect but you guys are pushing him pretty hard on lipo. How many packs did you ruin when you started with lipo, or ebikes?
The qustions in this thread indicate a lack of knowledge to a dangerous level for rc lipo. Im not yelling fire like some guys on here. But do you really think this guy is going to get good cycle life out of lipo packs? All it takes is an initial imbalance and a lvc not set right, or leaving them fully charged for a week to damage them. And if he doesn't understand voltage well enough that he has to ask these questions do you really want to encourage charging with power supplies? Does he have or know how to use a dmm to set them up?
Again no disrespect meant but for a first time user who may not have enough time to research all this stuff. It is a disservice to not explain the bad sides of lipo. And yes I love them too for a purpose but I also deal with a ton of end users every day.
OP don't underestimate the value of a plug and play battery for your first ebike. Or any ebike if you are a busy individual who has to charge every day.
leo99
100 W
Both have a good reputation, price is pretty much the same when you take in account the shipping I believe . I went with Paul from em3ev because he ships to Europe and I have only good things to say about him
Leo
Leo
Grizzl-E
100 W
I have a fair bit of stuff from both. Both are super stand up companies. When you include shipping the batteries are pretty similar in price.
Batteries are largely about lifespan. You don't have to go with the better resellers. Lots of people have success with aliexpress or ebay deals. But they usually aren't well tested after assembly, and the bms modules are typically cheaper.
A good battery will provide a long life and many easy miles of use. Its a good place to splurge a little.
Im not saying dont go lipo, just trying to give an opinion from a sub 30 year olds perspective. I only use my lipo packs as range boosters now.
Batteries are largely about lifespan. You don't have to go with the better resellers. Lots of people have success with aliexpress or ebay deals. But they usually aren't well tested after assembly, and the bms modules are typically cheaper.
A good battery will provide a long life and many easy miles of use. Its a good place to splurge a little.
Im not saying dont go lipo, just trying to give an opinion from a sub 30 year olds perspective. I only use my lipo packs as range boosters now.
wesnewell
100 GW
In 5+ years, I've never ruined a single pack. After about 3 + years the one 4s pack I used to start my generator puffed so bad it broke the plastic case. After depuffing all 4 cells and sealing it back up, it was good as new. Not long ago when I left it connected to the generator during a power outage it got overcharged to almost 18V and puffed a little. Once I discharged it back to 16.8V it went back to normal size. 2 or 3 of the 12 packs I use on my bike battery have puffed a little, but not broken the plastic yet. The price performance of rc lipo just can't be beat by any other type battery at this time. Hopefully it soon will, but until then....
Nightstone
100 mW
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2016
- Messages
- 39
From an RC perspective... the first mistake most folks do with lipos is buy a crappy charger. We all do it. To do it right you need a good power supply and a couple of good quality chargers. Tac the price of that with the lipos and your already over what a Bike shop battery would cost.
If you buy a cheap charger you can run into all kinds of issues. Balance and longevity being the main ones. If balance is not correct it could have an impact when you series/parallel the packs.
I have seen many guys buy the cheapos and have em cook months later. Buy Once Cry Once.
Lipos are great if you can care/use them properly.
NS
If you buy a cheap charger you can run into all kinds of issues. Balance and longevity being the main ones. If balance is not correct it could have an impact when you series/parallel the packs.
I have seen many guys buy the cheapos and have em cook months later. Buy Once Cry Once.
Lipos are great if you can care/use them properly.
NS
motomech
10 MW
Well, there certinaly are people I wouldn't recommend Lipo to, but I think you are doing the OP a disservice by intimating he does not possess the ability or the willingness to learn to handle Lipo. The volitility of the chemistry aside, it's really not rocket science.Grizzl-E said:
He is new true, but he is also is receptive, pays attention and seems eager to learn. Frankly, the idiotic comments seem to come from the kibitzers in Lipo threads.
Perhaps I am a little too gung ho on Lipo, it's hard not to be given how badly it beats other chemistries in terms of it's power to cost ratio.
The reason I went to Lipo is, as a novice, I got badly burned(financially)by a "plug and play" battery from a "reputable" vendor.
While I have ruined a brick or two(which I salvaged some cells), turned my fingers black while scaring the you know what out of myself, and have gone thru a couple of chargers(the Hyperion 1430 was a POS and we should have files a class action suit), but I haven't lost the kind of money that first battery cost me. To the contrary, I have saved a bunch of money with Lipo. To be honest, I don't worry about max cycles because I give my used Lipo to my poor Ebike friends every couple of years.
But I can impart what I have learned to others and if you read back thru my posts, you will see I take the time to do that and I am very rigid on the do's and don'ts.
I always recommend keeping the pack simple, stressing 2S/2P is the way to go and never more than 2P.
I always recommend a quality charging system, not only for safety, but to save money over the long run.
(I always recommend the Meanwell HLG series power supplies. While I admit that unit is being cross-purpossed for Ebike use, it has every safety feature as the Satiator except the auto shut off, and for that there is an easy work-a-round.)
I always recommend NOT breaking the pack, which I.M.O., is the worst thing that can be done while maintaining Lipo.
I always recommend checking the cells every charge cycle.
I always recommend a controller with a hard and fast LVC of 42V for 12S Lipo. I even go to the trouble to stress that if a system is using a 36V controller with a LVC of 31V, that 9S should be used instead of 10S.
My only mis-giving is a recent one, the lack of Quality w/ the new Battery Medics. But just the other day I became aware of the new Turnigy Discharger/balancer and the initial report is it is a good unit(Would expect nothing less from Turnigy.).
If all these suggestions are adhered to, the end result is basicly a "plug and play" system, that costs less, wieghs less and will run circles around any other chemistry.
The last thing I do not think you are taking into consideration, is the continual improvement in the Quality of Lipo. While dud cells are not yet a thing of the past, they are becoming increasingly more rare.
EDIT: I guess all of the above is rather moot. You seem to have scared the OP off using Lipo.
motomech
10 MW
The only cost vs power ratio "plug and play" batteries that comes even close to Lipo are the Li-Ion batteries from BMS Battery;Bogus said:
https://bmsbattery.com/71-48v-li-ion
The "risk" in going this route is purely financial, It's hard to do a return if something goes wrong.
Still, they seem to be, for the vast part, reliable. Many folks over at the pedelecsuk forum use them with success and the one I ordered has been ok. The "experts" recommend the Panasonic cells as being worth the money.
The chargers that come with them are notoriously bad, but that is probably true for most of the Plug and play batteries. Many savvy riders order an additional up-graded charger at the same time as the battery order.
docw009
10 MW
Coming in late, but the piece I originally liked from bogus' first post was his choice of lunacycle as the battery supplier. The dolphin pack is a good starting point for a guy that is new to bikes, electricity, and batteries. You screw it to the water bottle mounts and you're done. In my opinion looks pretty good too. No harnesses to connect, and reconnect. It has an on/off switch, a USB port (make sure it works), a led level indicator, and its own charging port.
I bought one last summer from luna. Actually, if you look at other north american suppliers, their pricing is pretty good for what you get, relative to other 18650 based batteries. You're paying for an assembled battery with brand name cells. You also have a domestic vendor with a good reputation here on this forum too.
I see Bogus is already returning the WMT bike. I would too, but realize that chains fall off all bikes if they are not adjusted. I suggest that he will have to pick up some mechanic's skills if he is going to build and run an e-bike.
I bought one last summer from luna. Actually, if you look at other north american suppliers, their pricing is pretty good for what you get, relative to other 18650 based batteries. You're paying for an assembled battery with brand name cells. You also have a domestic vendor with a good reputation here on this forum too.
I see Bogus is already returning the WMT bike. I would too, but realize that chains fall off all bikes if they are not adjusted. I suggest that he will have to pick up some mechanic's skills if he is going to build and run an e-bike.
Out of this batch of batteries I'd consider this one:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/685-48v10ah-bottle-09-e-bike-battery-charger-battery.html
It looks like a halfway decent case and the 18650 cells can probably be replaced when needed. It doesn't have a
BMS controller but at least comes with a charger that a newbie can get started with, and it's not super expensive.
The Panasonic version of this one is better but at a corresponding price increase.
Grizzl-E
100 W
Ya nothing wrong with that battery in particular. Just everything else in Etecks post that should be ignored.
OP you mentioned you want to build a fat tire bike later on. How serious are you about that? Since i assume you mean to use a 3000w dd motor you will need a battery that can put out higher amperage. Ironically like lipo. Thats an application where it really shines. So perhaps you do want to invest in a good lipo charging system and go through the learning curve now.
Or buy a cheap 18650 pack to commute with and go lipo later on.
OP you mentioned you want to build a fat tire bike later on. How serious are you about that? Since i assume you mean to use a 3000w dd motor you will need a battery that can put out higher amperage. Ironically like lipo. Thats an application where it really shines. So perhaps you do want to invest in a good lipo charging system and go through the learning curve now.
Or buy a cheap 18650 pack to commute with and go lipo later on.
molybdenum
1 kW
Grizzl-E said:
I bought the https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/684-48v116ah-bottle-09-panasonic-battery-charger-battery.html for a low power build and it works well for what I need it for. I think the non-panasonic version would sag under load and the genuine panasonic NCR18650PF pack is worth the extra $100.00 as they are a much better cell and will likely last much longer.
It's kind of confusing what your after here. In the lead post you choose a nice 11.5AH battery that's somewhat costly at $400.
Then later you make it seem like you're on a really tight budget.
Which is it ?
If you've got the money and like the LunaCycle Dolphin, it does look nice, go for it.
In the $400 range this one gives a full 20AH but it looks like you need a case or will have to figure out how to mount it:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/673-high-c-rate-48v20ah-li-ion-battery-heat-shrink-battery-pack-battery.html
What do (and anyone else) think of this one ?
t_tberg
100 W
Eteck said:
I have a very similar 1000W ebay kit, I use 15s at 5Ah, at 1500W and aggressive riding I can get easily 7 miles out of a 5Ah pack. If I slow down to about 20mph then I can expect over 10 miles from a pack. My girlfriend managed to reach 8.8wh/mile (moderate pedaling at a slow speed [~12mph], at which rate she could've ridden over 30 miles on the 15s 5Ah pack (277Watt/hours). If your commute is less than 15 miles both ways then a 12s 8Ah pack seems appropriate -- assuming that you want to pedal and you have the discipline to stay off the throttle a little bit.
what battery did you end up going with?
The reason I ask is that initially I was a total n00b to the whole Lipo scene, and the Lunacycle dolphin looked like a perfect "turnkey" addition to a simple hub motor setup.
I kept reading, and I decided that the extra hassle (opinions vary, but IMHO it *is* more involved than simply plugging in a charger and letting a BMS do its work) of Lipo was worth it to myself.
I'm at "bike 1.0" stage right now myself. Trying to gather as much into as I can for "bike 2.0".
can't wait to hear your experiences...
The reason I ask is that initially I was a total n00b to the whole Lipo scene, and the Lunacycle dolphin looked like a perfect "turnkey" addition to a simple hub motor setup.
I kept reading, and I decided that the extra hassle (opinions vary, but IMHO it *is* more involved than simply plugging in a charger and letting a BMS do its work) of Lipo was worth it to myself.
I'm at "bike 1.0" stage right now myself. Trying to gather as much into as I can for "bike 2.0".
can't wait to hear your experiences...
