• Hello ES! We could use some help to get us past the finish line on building the new knowledgebase for the forum.
    Can you donate? Please see our fundraising page. Thank you!

police e-bike crackdown

use small portable dynamometers during compliance testing.

Can you say what they test for?

My understanding of the power standard is that the motor can't sustain more power than the limit for an extended period of time - do they run the bike on the dyno for half an hour?

Or is actually only a speed test, that the power goes to zero at 25km/h? Do they care if it cuts off or tapers approaching that limit?

Is there any leniency due to manufacturer quality tolerances?

Happy to hear whatever detail you know.
 
Man i am sorry to hear about this, it sounds pretty bad. Hellscape bad.
In rural or suburban regions, does the lawman care? or is it mainly city that gets enforced?
 
Man i am sorry to hear about this, it sounds pretty bad. Hellscape bad.
In rural or suburban regions, does the lawman care? or is it mainly city that gets enforced?

At this time I assume that these compliance tests are performed in larger cities than mine.

I make a point of staying as far away from all and any Gooberment agents.

I’ve had run ins with them in the past and from my observations and interactions with them I believe they would essentially like to find any way that they can to jam you up regardless of your location.

I imagine that the “reflector” enforcers are/were being petty and the only way to beat them is, sadly, to appear to be 100% in compliance.

My current bike isn’t. I don’t have any reflectors but do always use a rear, flashing light and carry a front light with my tool kit.

My understanding regarding the dynamometers is that they are being used to test bikes/scooters fitted with throttles are in compliance and the tested vehicle does not break the speed limit.

“The regulations allow:
Walk Mode: Throttle assistance up to 3.7 mph (6 km/h) without pedalling.
Beyond 3.7 mph: Pedalling must be required for motor assistance.
Power Limits: Still subject to the 250-watt power and 15.5 mph - 25 kph speed”

This is why I do not have a throttle fitted to my bike, it would be much more difficult to test my bike on a small portable dynamometer but some forces do have larger dynamometers that they can strap a bike too 😔
 
Last edited:
Whats odd about a targeted police operation?

The sheer pettiness of it all and being willing to fine people for such minor things; it's predatory policing.
I grew up in California where they had police like this, they are collecting on you whenever possible, even if the mistake was small.

I'm sorry to hear this is a reality for you today with ebikes of all things.
 
The sheer pettiness of it all and being willing to fine people for such minor things; it's predatory policing.
I grew up in California where they had police like this, they are collecting on you whenever possible, even if the mistake was small.

I'm sorry to hear this is a reality for you today with ebikes of all things.
This is why within the context of your application, a build should be as stealthy as you can make it. When I finish all of my builds, there's going to be no obvious signs on first glance that they are powered by anything other than my legs. The only way anyone will know is if they catch me flying uphill at non-bicycle speeds and confiscate/disassemble the vehicle.

Soon, there will be a market for fast e-motos that mostly look like acoustic full-suspension mountain bikes, where the easiest things to discern them will be the wheels/tires/brake rotors. As battery technology improves, you'll be able to hide a 1+ kWh pack able to make 10+ kW peak power inside the frame.
 
The sheer pettiness of it all and being willing to fine people for such minor things; it's predatory policing.
Operation “Two-Wheelers” is coordinated predatory policing, in more than 30 countries from 1 to 7 June within the EU.

Sounds like mass tyranny to me

With some Officers clearly going home and telling their friends and family that they made the world a safer place by issuing citations for a missing reflector 😢



IMG_1026.jpeg
 
This is why within the context of your application, a build should be as stealthy as you can make it. When I finish all of my builds, there's going to be no obvious signs on first glance that they are powered by anything other than my legs. The only way anyone will know is if they catch me flying uphill at non-bicycle speeds and confiscate/disassemble the vehicle.
Yup

That’s where my 2nd build is heading for my daily driver.
 
Is this normal for Europe or just another day in Austria?
usually the police don't really care about reflectors or lights dureing the day only if they post you riding without either in the night. they are strict about confiscating ebikes and bicycles that drive faster than 26kph since there is a 1kph tolerance. at least they conduct the test on a roller that simulates wind and road resistance on flat ground so the speed test are fair. (with no load and just the wheel in the air mine spins to almost 40kph but with the slightest resistance it is at 24,8kph.

this is more of a special enforcement thing this week.
where they are strict is e scooters because new laws took effect on the first of may requiring blinkers and brake lights on all of them and helmets until 16 year old.


All my experiences with the police outside of these "operations" have been quite pleasant.
 
This is why within the context of your application, a build should be as stealthy as you can make it. When I finish all of my builds, there's going to be no obvious signs on first glance that they are powered by anything other than my legs. The only way anyone will know is if they catch me flying uphill at non-bicycle speeds and confiscate/disassemble the vehicle.

This, plus pedaling 100% of the time and slowing down to less than average bike speeds around pedestrians is how i've had zero problems with the ebike gestapo on many not so legal ebikes.

With one caveat: my ebikes are all operated in a suburban to rural environment where the ebike gestapo either don't have time to enforce or have interest in it. So i'm statistically unlikely to be confronted even if i was acting a fool.

And typically i am doing about the legal speed for an ebike in any situation where i don't have to suddenly become a moped and take the car lane for a bit because the bike lane suddenly disappeared yet again.

I always pedal for fitness purposes. The ebike is a nice runner's high amplifier and is much nicer than the acoustic because it provides a higher amount of dopamine juice per pedal stroke.
 
Last edited:
This, plus pedaling 100% of the time and slowing down to less than average bike speeds around pedestrians is how i've had zero problems with the ebike gestapo on many not so legal ebikes.

With one caveat: my ebikes are all operated in a suburban to rural environment where the ebike gestapo either don't have time to enforce or have interest in it. So i'm statistically unlikely to be confronted even if i was acting a fool.

And typically i am doing about the legal speed for an ebike in any situation where i don't have to suddenly become a moped and take the car lane for a bit because the bike lane suddenly disappeared yet again.

I always pedal for fitness purposes. The ebike is a nice runner's high amplifier and is much nicer than the acoustic because it provides a higher amount of dopamine juice per pedal stroke.
All good points. My end goal is to use mine like a straight-up car, getting exercise while doing so, and occasionally taking the chance to bait some really fast cars at stoplights for fun. I live in an urban area where street takeover culture is mainstream and widespread enough that the police can't do anything about it. I ride on roads with 25-55 mph speed limits. I have to be able to hold pace with the car traffic or I'm in a dangerous spot, and a 28 mph/750W limit for class 3 is totally inadequate for this. I also need to be able to get away from trouble if it finds me(it has before), and that requires acceleration capability coupled with the ability to get away from someone else on/in a vehicle. The alternative is to just not ride.

I've been pulled over doing 40+ mph on multiple occasions prior to motorizing any of the velomobiles. The cops looked for a motor, couldn't find one(because there was none), and had to let me go. So if the cops pull me over with motors installed, I don't want the motors or any related components to be found.
 
The sheer pettiness of it all and being willing to fine people for such minor things; it's predatory policing.
I grew up in California where they had police like this, they are collecting on you whenever possible, even if the mistake was small.

I'm sorry to hear this is a reality for you today with ebikes of all things.

I have had run ins with petty plods all over the world inc small town usa!!! , pour me a beer and i will gladly bend your ear with the details... Some would postulate petty is a requirement for the job .
 
I have no love for the police, but they don't make these laws, they just get ordered to enforce them. It's the impoverished governments that are chasing our dollars for non-compliance and I for one don't want to give them an extra cent! If I lived back in the city I'd simply comply, or make some crafty stealth bike that I could quickly modify to be compliant. A throttle hidden in a bell arrangement would be a good start :)

Looks like there is plenty of room in this one

BELL.jpg
 
it's predatory policing
is it predatory, or political/social? It could be some of both, but I want to point out that there is a good purpose, even if the situation leads to it being a blunt instrument.

Keep in mind that some of these standards are created by cycling advocates and traffic specialists looking at real data about avoiding accidents on the road. Trotting out some examples that seem extreme does not change this - that's just a distraction.

The emerging success of e-transport, combined with the lack of knowledge and preparation by existing governments and combined with the state capture by fossil fuel automobile lobbies and the existing environment which that has brought about has lead to an explosion of e-things which are actually hostile - it's not Ok to main and kill elderly and children. It's also not Ok to teach children by example that they should expect to live without responsibility to others.

Part of how our group/society is dealing with this is to try to shave off the idiots who are riding machines that seem to be causing the problem. That's not the only solution, but it's very likely part of the solution. It puts people on notice that they live with the rest of us and we expect them to take responsibility for their actions. We'll evolve the solutions from here.

You can run your machine as you like on your own private property. But you're not doing that. You are riding where the rest of us are also living our lives.

Reading over these messages, I read quite a bit of selfishness. "I want, I want, no one better tell me what to do!"

YOU decided to ride where the rest of us live. Take responsibility for deciding to take advantage of the benefits of living and working and trading with the rest of the people. We don't exist just to give you what you want.

It's not all worked out yet. Yup, that's how it happens. We'll stumble along to find an equilibrium that suits, and it will also change as we go.

I DON'T READ ANY OF YOU OFFERING ANY PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONS ABOUT HOW TO HELP WORK OUT A SOLUTION.

I just read complaints. Where did you get the idea that the rest of us exist just to help you get your rocks off without any participation from you in working out the problems we are all facing?

Your approach is to complain. How are you going to help the society you live in solve the problems which are happening due to e-bikes and other e-transport? The time and energy you put into whining could have gone to something productive.

And that's on you. If you want the benefit of living with the rest of us, how about you get off your ass and contribute something useful?
 
Last edited:
That's all i got.

We can all see this.

You offer no suggestion of any solution to the problems occurring in our societies that lead to the various reactions you complain about. I see no mention of actions to address the problems that are leading to the over-reactions.

Thank you for supporting my point.
 
I DON'T READ ANY OF YOU OFFERING ANY PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONS ABOUT HOW TO HELP WORK OUT A SOLUTION.
A solution to what? To getting what we individually want? I'd say everyone here is far to Biased to offer any rational suggestion. To me the laws are what they are. Just one more technologically induced mess to contend with in our increasingly insane societies.

This was a good idea, but the Lord mayor had a large interest in an emerging bus company so it was all abolished in favor of them.

TRAM Brisbane 410 approaching Chermside Terminus. 09.06.52 N F Reed.jpg

Not as clumsy or polluting as a bus; an elegant transport for a more civilized age."

old tram.jpg

It wasn't just the bus company deal either I suppose, the trams ran across extensive reinforced concrete beds and their upkeep would have been increasingly expensive as the years passed... Or not? Here is a preserved section at Carina in Brisbane, 50 years after the closure, probably making it 80 years old and more?

CARINA TRAMWAY 4.jpg
 
Gents, us mere mortals will never win, years back the government told everyone they should drive diesel engined vehicles it's better than petrol, we all changed, now it's not. Everyone should ride a bike in town, cycle lanes were put in, buses, cars, delivery vehicles etc etc cannot get around because of the cycle lanes, take them out. Drive an EV great for the planet we will not tax you, government o bugger no taxes coming in, we are going to tax EVs or charge by the mile. Electric bikes, less pollution, great around town, great in the country side, lets clobber all the riders for the state some of the home builds and excess speeds, as it's out of control, but it's us mere mortals that are at the receiving end again. Then there are e-scooters, to be honest I have never really been struck on e-scooters after nearly been taken out by one in a supermarket car-park by a kid speeding along on a adult e-scooter.
 
Gents, us mere mortals will never win
There was a time when folk realized that the creator created the living man/woman and “we” (the people) created Government.

It’s now time that Government remembers where it’s “power” came from

Voting fixes nothing

Government should fear us
We should not fear Government
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dgc
I have no love for the police, but they don't make these laws, they just get ordered to enforce them.
The very reason that I have no love for the Police

They follow orders, policy, procedures and protocol while very often forgetting that they serve us, the people, by protecting our God given rights.

You’re more likely to be killed by a cop than a, claimed, terrorist.
 
The very reason that I have no love for the Police

They follow orders, policy, procedures and protocol while very often forgetting that they serve us, the people, by protecting our God given rights.

You’re more likely to be killed by a cop than a, claimed, terrorist.

OffGridDownUnder is gonna love you more than me. Thanks for taking the heat off 😅
 
Back
Top