Power supplies for quick, silent NINJA charging

[swbluto]

Another approach is to conceal the power supplies inside an aluminum case of some sort (aluminum breifcase?), then they can conduct heat directly to the outside. Unfortunately, most aluminum breifcases are really expensive. A cheap plasic one with an aluminum panel installed on one side might work too.

Good suggestion. It seems like ebay has them for $35 for the cheapo ones.

Sorted by lowest price
Ebay Query: aluminum briefcase -mini -credit -card
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RoadPro-SPC...4?pt=US_CSA_MWA_Backpacks&hash=item51afdeff7e

Good thing that cheaper ones exist; would hate to rip out the interior of an expensive one, lol.

 

[swbluto]

Guys, if 16 volt, 7.5 Amp IBM power supply works for you, (16.54 volt resting voltage on the one I have)
you can get them on ebay as low as 8 bucks. 170x70x37 mm.
I think it's a hell of deal for 120 watt noise and fan free PS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-ThinkPa...=Laptop_Adapters_Chargers&hash=item4176df5ae8

IBM FRU # 02K7085

Unfortunately I need 87 volt fully charged voltage, and can't figure out combination yet. Even with 20 volt ones.

BTW, 20 volt, 6.75 Amp PS, Lenovo FRU # 45N0054 measures actual resting voltage 20.65 volt.

The available voltages are 15,16,17,18,19,20 and 24 for the laptop chargers. I'm sure some combination of those numbers could get upto around 87. But, I really doubt you're going to get the *exact* voltage you want given all the unpredictable variation in the resting voltages among the laptop chargers but that should be okay assuming you overshoot the target voltage a little and carefully watch the circuit with a voltmeter (You can get a $3 2-wire voltmeter off ebay) or, alternatively, use a lipo bms/HVC thingamabob. Like, getting 6x 15v power supplies should get you a little over 90.

I pretty much lucked out getting exactly a 24.6v charge voltage with the apple PS, however I personally would've preferred a higher voltage and monitored accordingly, that way the charging wouldn't be so slow towards the end. But, alas, no commercial laptop power supply I know of goes above 25volts but that's really not so bad since LED power supplies are available and if I'm going to be using a suitcase, might as well use what's best for charging and be less concerned about 'aesthetics'. The laptop chargers, however, are pretty lightweight and compact. (Then again, the LED power supplies might be better, watt/lb wise and watt/in^3 wise, after taking into account all the additional cords necessary for the laptop supplies.)

(Hmmm... I'm worried about putting a cheap chinese led power supply with an aluminum holed case inside an aluminum suitcase... I think I'd prefer something a bit more enclosed/shielded-off. Maybe I could line the inner aluminum casing with silicone? Not sure the best kind of silicone to use or the best way to apply it...Maybe silicon sheets exist...)

 

[fechter]

Silicone glue is a good heat conductor. You could just glue supplies to the inside of a case. Bolting them would be good too (but not as pretty on the outside).

Heck, if you had one of those aluminum breifcases, I bet you could run a supply with a fan inside it and barely hear it on the outside if it was closed. As long as there is lots of surface area, the heat will transfer to the ambient.

 

[swbluto]

Silicone glue is a good heat conductor. You could just glue supplies to the inside of a case. Bolting them would be good too (but not as pretty on the outside).

Heck, if you had one of those aluminum breifcases, I bet you could run a supply with a fan inside it and barely hear it on the outside if it was closed. As long as there is lots of surface area, the heat will transfer to the ambient.

I wonder how loud the meanwell or clones are? I haven't ran them before, but I know that I couldn't get away with running my RC balancer inside them, lol. Those things are loud. But, if they're the quieter kind of fans (Not like most CPU fans), then that seems possible.

 

[fechter]

They're pretty loud, almost as loud as the balancer fan. You might be surprised how much closed container cuts down the noise.

If the aluminum frame/heatsink of the power supply was bonded to the inside of an aluminum box, you might not need a fan, as the surface area would be huge.

 

[swbluto]

If the aluminum frame/heatsink of the power supply was bonded to the inside of an aluminum box, you might not need a fan, as the surface area would be huge.

Definitely sounds like something that's worthy of thermal/power testing. If one could squeeze 260-320 watts out of a 320watt PS with the fan removed inside the suitcase, then that'd certainly be awesome. One could even apply some kind of active cooling to the suitcase, like maybe a huge, thin, lightweight, slow-spinning fan of sorts, lol. (Not sure one could find that, not sure if that could be effectively concealed.)

Or maybe one of those 'quiet' laptop coolers.

I'm still worried about a possible electrical connection between the PS case and the suitcase with silicon glue (Some part of it might come into contact). Is there some kind of thin sheet material that'd ensure electrical insulation while being thermally conductive? Or maybe a technique to ensure electrical isolation? (Like standing the powersupply off the case with TO-220 silicon pads spaced out? Saw 100 of them for $5 on ebay.)

 

[fechter]

The power supply is grounded, so direct connection to the case should be OK.

Silicone is good for keeping isolation and allowing heat transfer. The key is to keep the layer thin and use as much surface area as possible. Small pieces of Kapton tape could be used to prevent metal-metal contact while the glue is curing and would keep it isolated (just glue alone might allow contact).

 

[swbluto]

The power supply is grounded, so direct connection to the case should be OK.

Silicone is good for keeping isolation and allowing heat transfer. The key is to keep the layer thin and use as much surface area as possible. Small pieces of Kapton tape could be used to prevent metal-metal contact while the glue is curing and would keep it isolated (just glue alone might allow contact).

So one could adhere kapton tape to the bottom of the power supply, completely covering the bottom, and then silicone the power supply to the casing. Would that work well?

Edit: Is Kapton Tape a good thermal conductor? Immediate google results seem ambiguous.

Edit: Kaptop tape's thermal conductivity of .14w/mK seems on par with insulation (.04-.06; Brass's thermal conductivity is 109 according to http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html), suggesting it's not a good thermal conductor at all. Would TO-220 silicon pads be more effective?

Edit: Silicone's thermal conductivity is .2w/mK. Interesting, so I'm guessing that as long as the layer is 'thin', a 'low' thermal conductivity value doesn't matter? Suggesting that a thin kapton tape + thin layer of silicone glue would be effective for our purposes.

 

[fechter]

Kapton is really thin, so the total thermal resistance is still pretty low. I was thinking just put Kapton around the edges and maybe any potential contact points, then fill in everything with silicone. The Kapton will act like a standoff spacer and make sure there's a layer of silicone at least the same thickness everywhere. Once the silicone cures, it will maintain the spacing under quite a bit of abuse.

BTW, I think you could also silicone glue a bunch of laptop chargers to the inside of a metal case and have most of the heat dissipate outside.

 

[xenodius]

Isn't there a special thermal epoxy for just this application?

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Electronics_NA/Electronics/Products/Product_Catalog/~?N=7234484&rt=c3

I think combining with a briefcase is probably a great bet.

I dont' see why you couldn't use this with Kapton for insulation.

 

[fechter]

That epoxy is good stuff too. It is much harder than silicone and has a higher tensile strength. In a thin layer, I bet the thermal conductivity will be about the same.

 

[jkbrigman]

I submit to you that the Meanwell HLG and HEP-series LED Power Supplies perfectly satisfy the requirements of NINJA CHARGING:

http://www.powergatellc.com/led-power.html

There are many available power ratings, form factors, interconnects and price levels, from very low-cost to a couple hundred dollars. Super high quality.

I have been using the HLG-320-48 and it has far exceeded my expectations. It's been bulletproof, completely silent, and charges as-expected per the ratings for the unit. I'm considering upgrading to the 600W unit and installing it on the bike....

 

[cal3thousand]

I submit to you that the Meanwell HLG and HEP-series LED Power Supplies perfectly satisfy the requirements of NINJA CHARGING:

http://www.powergatellc.com/led-power.html

There are many available power ratings, form factors, interconnects and price levels, from very low-cost to a couple hundred dollars. Super high quality.

I have been using the HLG-340-48 and it has far exceeded my expectations. It's been bulletproof, completely silent, and charges as-expected per the ratings for the unit. I'm considering upgrading to the 600W unit and installing it on the bike....

They are pretty nice. The 320s are good at just above $100, but the 600s are twice as much and about twice as large. I'd be hesitant to mount such a large charge on-board. Maybe a cargo bike.

 

[jkbrigman]

I submit to you that the Meanwell HLG and HEP-series LED Power Supplies perfectly satisfy the requirements of NINJA CHARGING:

http://www.powergatellc.com/led-power.html

There are many available power ratings, form factors, interconnects and price levels, from very low-cost to a couple hundred dollars. Super high quality.

I have been using the HLG-340-48 and it has far exceeded my expectations. It's been bulletproof, completely silent, and charges as-expected per the ratings for the unit. I'm considering upgrading to the 600W unit and installing it on the bike....

They are pretty nice. The 320s are good at just above $100, but the 600s are twice as much and about twice as large. I'd be hesitant to mount such a large charge on-board. Maybe a cargo bike.

I have two 320's I'm experimenting with and even with the two onboard, the weight isn't a problem. But there may be no need: only one charges faster than anything else I've got. Makes me think everything else I have must be "optimistically rated". :lol:

The Cycle Satiator is the undisputed Best Possible Option for ebike charging. But if you need something cheaper yet still robust, I can't recommend the fully-sealed, fully-potted Meanwell LED supplies enough. It's been the highest quality, best performing product I've ever bought for use with my ebike, and it blows all the NINJA CHARGING requirements out of the water.

When we started this thread, we were all looking at laptop power supplies in an effort to keep the cost low. With the Meanwell LED supplies, their low cost seems to make that a silly quest. Here's an example of the 185 watt version (beefier than almost any laptop supply) for $61.47 before shipping:

http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-185h-power-supply.html

That $60-or-so gets you a world-class power supply, sealed against the elements, with pot-adjustable current and voltage settings. It's simple, solid and built like a brick. With all the failures I've had trying to make laptop supplies work, I'll never go back to a repurposed laptop supply again...

 

[cal3thousand]

I submit to you that the Meanwell HLG and HEP-series LED Power Supplies perfectly satisfy the requirements of NINJA CHARGING:

http://www.powergatellc.com/led-power.html

There are many available power ratings, form factors, interconnects and price levels, from very low-cost to a couple hundred dollars. Super high quality.

I have been using the HLG-340-48 and it has far exceeded my expectations. It's been bulletproof, completely silent, and charges as-expected per the ratings for the unit. I'm considering upgrading to the 600W unit and installing it on the bike....

They are pretty nice. The 320s are good at just above $100, but the 600s are twice as much and about twice as large. I'd be hesitant to mount such a large charge on-board. Maybe a cargo bike.

I have two 320's I'm experimenting with and even with the two onboard, the weight isn't a problem. But there may be no need: only one charges faster than anything else I've got. Makes me think everything else I have must be "optimistically rated". :lol:

The Cycle Satiator is the undisputed Best Possible Option for ebike charging. But if you need something cheaper yet still robust, I can't recommend the fully-sealed, fully-potted Meanwell LED supplies enough. It's been the highest quality, best performing product I've ever bought for use with my ebike, and it blows all the NINJA CHARGING requirements out of the water.

When we started this thread, we were all looking at laptop power supplies in an effort to keep the cost low. With the Meanwell LED supplies, their low cost seems to make that a silly quest. Here's an example of the 185 watt version (beefier than almost any laptop supply) for $61.47 before shipping:

http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-185h-power-supply.html

That $60-or-so gets you a world-class power supply, sealed against the elements, with pot-adjustable current and voltage settings. It's simple, solid and built like a brick. With all the failures I've had trying to make laptop supplies work, I'll never go back to a repurposed laptop supply again...

That's the truth and nothing but the truth!

Next step for me (and I have the instructions) is to add a charging port to my controllers that runs across the internal shunt so I can use the CA to monitor the charge. If someone didn't want to pony up for a Satiator (which I love), they could go this route.

 

[cwah]

I've been using this one for few months now:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Precision-Compact-DC-60V-3A-Adjustable-Digital-Switching-Power-Supply-110-220V/141389291960?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D0e8f8efe322a47b885852b05e518a364%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20140122125356%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311068842937&rt=nc

Completely silent and very reliable. I quickly adjust charging current with pot whenever I need a quicker charge. Same for the voltage.

I just purchased the 60V5A model (300W) for quick charge on the go. It's a bit bigger but reasonable:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311068842937?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I've been comparing it with satiator size and the lower power unit is smaller than the satiator

 

[jkbrigman]

I just purchased the 60V5A model (300W) for quick charge on the go. It's a bit bigger but reasonable:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311068842937?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

cwah that's one hell of a good find. I've been looking for same being sold here in the US, but no luck yet....

 

[jkbrigman]

Quick comment just to "jiggle the thread": I bought two of the Meanwell HLG-340-48 power supplies (the ones with pigtails, which I think is the "C" variant). This product can produce 48v at almost 7 amps. They've been sitting, doing nothing much as I ponder switching DOWN from 18S to 12S.

So I'm adding a 30A powerpole to one tonight and putting it through some testing. If 50v works OK with the Clyte H3540, I'll reconfigure the pack and run with that voltage.

 

[fechter]

Too bad they don't make a 60v version of that.
You could just use a fixed 12-15v supply in series with that one to boost the voltage. As long as the fixed supply can source more current, the other one will do all the limiting.

 

[cwah]

As said before, this one does up to 63V:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/141389291960?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20140122125356&meid=0e8f8efe322a47b885852b05e518a364&pid=100005&prg=20140122125356&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=311068842937&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_mwBanner=1

It's more compact, go from 0v to 63V, easy to adjust, with voltage and amp display. Completely silent and I have been using it every days for 6 months no problems. I purchased the bigger model because I liked it so much (the bigger has a bit of ripple noise)

It's a little bit more expensive but definitely better than the HLG serie.

 

[cwah]

They have the 600W model, which double the size of the HLG... but it has a fan on it
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/311342902070

I'm going to confirm with seller on noise but it may be a no go..

 

[cal3thousand]

As said before, this one does up to 63V:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/141389291960?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20140122125356&meid=0e8f8efe322a47b885852b05e518a364&pid=100005&prg=20140122125356&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=311068842937&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_mwBanner=1

It's more compact, go from 0v to 63V, easy to adjust, with voltage and amp display. Completely silent and I have been using it every days for 6 months no problems. I purchased the bigger model because I liked it so much (the bigger has a bit of ripple noise)

It's a little bit more expensive but definitely better than the HLG serie.

More compact than an HLG? That depends on the HLG unit and your idea of compact. It is certainly shorter than an HLG, but it is also taller and wider than an HLG. I guess 1 out of 3 is better than none.

And to the point of this thread, there is no 'ninja' going on with the unit you linked. They would do good as a versatile and cheap AT HOME charger since they lack the IP65 ratings and stealth that the HLGs have. It's actually a benefit not to have a bunch of knobs and displays on your charger when asking small business owner to let you charge on their outlet.

 

[cwah]

yes sorry not more compact, but significantly lighter at 0.85kg for the 150W and 1.2kg for the 300W. The HLG model at 320W is 1.88kg! 50% heavier:
http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/HLG-320H-54A/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt5PRBMPTWcaRTgZe1UVjfl6y%2f63um6Sts%3d

They are quite expensive too.