Powerfull daily commuter "The reliable fun-fast-bike"

[Tjeska]

Hi, I would like some pro advise from this great forum!?
Learned alot here, but I still have some doubts about some of the challenges.

In a few months I will start with a new job and I will commute to it with my trusty "old" bike.
Ofcourse, this MTB frame would need be converted to a propper reliable, fun, fast bike (in that order).


Max Speed: 50-60kph - top really doesn't matter, its acceleration and torque I'm after.
Range: min 70km - 30kph - with pedal effort.
Frame: 26", front suspension, alu MTB, 135mm dropouts.
Brakes: V-brakes now, will convert to hydraulic disk setup.
My "profile": 80kg (176 pounds) - 1m 95cm (6 feet 449⁄64 inches)
Terrain: mostly flat.
Budget: not really a concern, but don't go crazy, keep price/performance in mind.
Cassette: some gears would be nice, if its possible at least 5.


Little side note: I like things to be "overbuild", done it that way with my track car, my Jeep, never regreted it.
Would like to do it with this project also, overbuild brakes, controller, motor.

If I decide to build a full suspension, the parts must be capable and compatible to live up to the future frame.
Would like to transfer all the parts to a full suspension eeb/carbon NYX frame, when the funds allow it.


Motor:
The 1500w rear hub leafbike 4T motor (w temp. sensor and upgraded wiring).
My only doubts with this one is, will it be fun enough if I change to a more purpose build frame?
Yes, I am looking at you MXUS 3000 v3 turbo( I've read that the 142mm version would be possible on a 135mm frame?).

Controller:
A EM3EV's 18 fet IRFB4110 Infineon 36v-72v 60A, looks powerfull for max 20S lipo and think this is the way to go price/performance.

Display: Cycle Analist V3
With torque sensor with a pot, will this get me the best pedelec response?
The optional shunt isn't necessary to have all the readings, if I have the resistance value from the Infineon?

Battery:
Hobbyking Multistar 4S - 16A/h Lipo's in serie's = 16S/59.2V or 20S/74V.

Brakes:
Shimano BR-M640-B and 203mm disk's.
or
Tektro Auriga E-Twin HD-E525 (hmmm, dual front calipers).

Really like the possibility to have regenerative braking, is there "a propper way" to add contacts to existing disk brakes?
I've seen some ways, with screwing magnets to the levers, but find it very sketchy looking?
Is this the only way, otherwise it will need be Tektro Dorado HD-E710?



The only question left is:
I'm from Belgium, and they like to charge huge import/customs tax/duty on everything ordered outside Europe.
Can anyone help me to get some reputable sellers/shops inside europe where I can get most of these parts?


Thanks in advance, curious to your guys opinion!?

 

[bionicon]

Hobbyking Europe...taxfree cycle analist go see at crystallite(in belgium),You can also buy a complete bike from vector( germany).

 

[Tjeska]

Hobbyking Europe...taxfree cycle analist go see at crystallite(in belgium),You can also buy a complete bike from vector( germany).

Hobbyking, I know, have way to many "cool planes" laying around in 1000 pieces
To bad these Multistars are "out of stock"

Thank you for the other, Siiiir! :lol:

 

[bionicon]

You know belgium law about e-bike? From 1 october You need for bikes that go's faster than 25km/h a type approval on the bike and insurance,also a plate on the back of youre bike
The only type thats in the category of normal bike is the pedalassist to max 25km/h and with a motor of max 1000watt.All the rest will be consider as a e-bike(or a moped)

 

[Tjeska]

You know belgium law about e-bike? From 1 october You need for bikes that go's faster than 25km/h a type approval on the bike and insurance,also a plate on the back of youre bike
The only type thats in the category of normal bike is the pedalassist to max 25km/h and with a motor of max 1000watt.All the rest will be consider as a e-bike(or a moped)

Thanks for your input, but this isn't the topic here.

Can you please give me a gouvernement source where I can verify this?
The Belgium Bike federation tells it otherwise, different sources different explained law, some speak of 250w, some 500w some, 1000w.

Most speak of these 6 different types:

Pedelec: max 25km/u, need to pedel.
Speed pedelec class P: max 45km/u, max 4kw, need to pedel.
+45 Pedelecs: motorcycle by law, not legal.

E-Bikes max 25km/u: no need to pedel, class A moped.
E-Bikes max 45km/u: no need to pedel, class B moped.
E-Bikes max +45km/u: motorcycle, not legal.

Need this information to be confirmed, by a Gouvernement source.

I would like to build a Speed pedelec class P, thats why I mentioned the torque sensor instead of the usual throttle...

 

[bionicon]

I know its not the topic but its something You have to deal with today. You want to build a speed pedelec and drive it like a daily commuter, but that need a type approval (dont know where You gonna get that) because thats something great bike builders take care off. So if i understand well the only thing you can build yourself and drive it legaly is the pedelec 25km/u.I dont know or there is already a form written by the governement, but its something what is agreed on european level(that what i understand from it) There is also big gray zone on it ,like what they gonna do with all the bikes already on the street without any papers or type- approval.

 

[MadRhino]

Funny, I have a Friesian horse named Tjeska

Well, you don't tell the bike's brand and model, but some Alu Mtb frames can be spread more than 1 cm wider than their original width without any damage. Those frames are easy to recognise, for they are made to fit the rear hub under tension. This means that you have to spread the rear triangle to insert the wheel so the frame does press like a spring on the hub axle shoulders. With those frames, you can install a wider motor without any problem. Otherwise you still can build extended dropout plates and fit wider, if the rear triangle design does clear enough space for the rotor when you have disc brakes.

Nevertheless, some pretty powerful motors are available 135mm wide, and some that are wider can be modified to 135 if you are willing to fit a single freewheel.

 

[Tjeska]

Great horse you have there


The bike is a Thompson challenge, i've removed the rear wheel a couple of times to do some maintenance, and it doesnt clamp the rear as much.

Dont know of its easy to bend them out, will take a look tomorrow.

 

[Cephalotus]

Max Speed: 50-60kph...
....
Frame: 26", front suspension, alu MTB, 135mm dropouts.
Brakes: V-brakes now, will convert to hydraulic disk setup.
...
Cassette: some gears would be nice, if its possible at least 5.

...
Little side note: I like things to be "overbuild", done it that way with my track car, my Jeep, never regreted it.

...
Would like to do it with this project also, overbuild brakes, controller, motor.

How do you want to pedal that thing with a 5 speed "cassette" in the rear where a 14 tooth sprocket usually is the smallest one?

If you want to "overbuild" stuff do you think your old cheap(?) MTB frame make a good basis for a 60km/h motorcycle?

You want to "add" a hydraulic disc brake on your old fork? Will it really survive this?

The only question left is:
I'm from Belgium, and they like to charge huge import/customs tax/duty on everything ordered outside Europe.
Can anyone help me to get some reputable sellers/shops inside europe where I can get most of these parts?

Maybe:

http://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/index.php

https://eu.nkon.nl/

 

[Cephalotus]

I would like to build a Speed pedelec class P, thats why I mentioned the torque sensor instead of the usual throttle...

Buy one. Buy insurance for it! (Maybe modify it.)

If you have to ask this is the only realistic way...

 

[Tjeska]

Max Speed: 50-60kph...
....
Frame: 26", front suspension, alu MTB, 135mm dropouts.
Brakes: V-brakes now, will convert to hydraulic disk setup.
...
Cassette: some gears would be nice, if its possible at least 5.

...
Little side note: I like things to be "overbuild", done it that way with my track car, my Jeep, never regreted it.

...
Would like to do it with this project also, overbuild brakes, controller, motor.

How do you want to pedal that thing with a 5 speed "cassette" in the rear where a 14 tooth sprocket usually is the smallest one?

If you want to "overbuild" stuff do you think your old cheap(?) MTB frame make a good basis for a 60km/h motorcycle?

You want to "add" a hydraulic disc brake on your old fork? Will it really survive this?

The only question left is:
I'm from Belgium, and they like to charge huge import/customs tax/duty on everything ordered outside Europe.
Can anyone help me to get some reputable sellers/shops inside europe where I can get most of these parts?

Maybe:

http://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/index.php

https://eu.nkon.nl/

Can't I get different cassette's and ringgears to match the added power?
With a 11 tooth gear and a 50 ringgear, can finetune that once everything runs decent.

No, i dont think this is a good base, hence the reason I want to buy a specific ebike frame.
I don't intend to drive this bike on that speeds, but building something and drive it at its top speed constant isnt that efficiënt at all, no?


The Fork and frame have disk calipers mounting points ready, and the bike cost me €1000 10 years back, made in Belgium and so...
Not that cheap, but hey, lucky you...


Well I must say, this here is disapointing...
Lots of negativety, not the opinions I was hoping for.

 

[Cephalotus]

Well I must say, this here is disapointing...
Lots of negativety, not the opinions I was hoping for.

Well. Using your old frame, adding disc brakes (frame and fork are rated up to what disc diameter? What about some detailed close up pictures if you are seeking for advice?), making it a complete illegal motorcycle that runs up to 60km/h theoretically and driving it a 30km/h sounds like the best idea I have ever seen.

Better now?

I don't know how it turns out in your country, but In Germany buying a legal high quality s-Pedelec is usually cheaper than being caught just one time by the police riding your not insured electric motorcycle. If you drive very fast they will check it, police is not stupid. I guess I can tell with 99% hit rate if someone rides 40km/h on its own or with motor assist. Something like a cycle analyst is not unknown to the police over here, some police also got detailed information on the major brands and the tuning kits available on the market, how they work and where they are hidden. Over here running an uninsured motorcycle is a crime and so much more problematic and much more expensive than minor things like crossing red lights...

If you cause and accident you pay for everything out of your pocket, maybe until the end of your life.

I doubt that this is significantly different in Belgium. This is an US dominated forum, people there often have a very different attitude to insurance and police there may be more tolerate on such things. Ask yourself if it is a wise idea to use their examples in your country...

 

[Tjeska]

Getting really tired of this, please make a sticky where you explain all the laws instead of tying to spam a topic over and over again...

Like I said, I would like to build a Class P "speed pedelec" 45km/u not a illegal motorcycle.

 

[MadRhino]

Even if it was an illegal motorcycle, you are the only one to decide what power and speed that you want to ride.

Some here, must be lawyers or politicians. Every thread about a powerful bike attracts the legalists and the moralists like flies on Shhh.... ugar. :wink:

 

[bionicon]

I am certain not a moralist, in fact i am driving myself an illegal bike (8kw middrive, drive it mostly offroad) I just want to point at the fact if you build a speed pedelec 45 km/h and spend alot of money, you also need a type approval(gelijkvormigheidsattest) otherwise You cannot take an insurance and not register the bicycle. I have looked myself how i could fix this problem but found nothing so far
If you tell me you drive it offroad or on mtbtracks no problem, but you want to use it as a daily commuter, be aware that with the new regulations from october the first police will look closer at e-bicycles. Certain now, you need a registerplate on the back of your bike and the police passing you doing 45km/h and have no plate
An alternative is what i am doing at the moment, just bought a moped(with type approval) and convert it to electric.(also not complete legal.....but almost )

 

[Cephalotus]

I would like to see a link to a building and registration report of a DIY speed pedelec in EU made by a private person.

Only one single example.

There are very few DIY builds of legal L1e vehicles (those are NOT speed pedelecs, you need to wear a helmet for motorcycles) and there are a handful of speed pedelecs built by small companies usually based on individual approvals.

If you are able to make your speed pedelec please show it incl. the type approval. I believe this is of great interest to many.

To go this legal way needs a very different approach compared to what you want to build based on your first statement. Before you get even more tired just go on about what you want (this is your "overbuilt" 60km/h ebike), but don't try to fool people.

Even if it was an illegal motorcycle, you are the only one to decide what power and speed that you want to ride.

Some here, must be lawyers or politicians. Every thread about a powerful bike attracts the legalists and the moralists like flies on Shhh.... ugar. :wink:

It's just a different viewpoint. If I'm hurt by someone riding a vehicle I expect him to pay for it. That's what insurances are for. If you don't have one you pay out of your own pocket and if your pocket is empty you pay with your house and so on. If I need (for example) 200.000 Euro and I can only get 100.000 Euro from the rider this has become my problem, too. I prefer road traffic with safe and insured vehicles. I know that there is a different approach to such things in North America, but afaik Belgium is not there and I'm very sure that Belgian authorities and police will not be as tolerate as many ES members may suggest.

On the other hand it is very simple. Buy a (used) speed-pedelec sometimes starting at 1000 Euro, buy insurance (just a handful of Euros per year) and you are done. You may even decide to use that bike and make your own "modifications". In most cases (at least in Germany) this will cost you maximum 5000 Euro regress if you cause a worst case accident. Not cheap, but you will not loose your financial existence.

----

I said what I wanted to say.

Thread was about building a bike running 60km/h based on a (yet unknown) MTB frame converted to disc brakes. Please go on...