Programming Kelly Controller While Motor is Runniing

[freesiderxl]

Here's a stoner question-

On Kelly Controller's Website, they write:

If you only want to program the controller, B+ and B- can be disconnected. You only need to connect the power to J2 pin 1 and J2 pin 2 or PWR vs GND/RTN. You can not try to connect the controller to the computer while the motor is running. Restart the power supply can obtain the change results.

Why can't one reprogram the control the motor while it is still running? I guess without the right parameters, the controller would explode... but is it possible to reprogram the controller "on the fly" or is there some way to simulate this "on the fly" experience, ie turning the controller on/off super quickly?

I'd really appreciate learning about what keeps us from reprogramming the controller while the motor is on, and some help imagining what is possible.

Thanks!

 

[grindz145]

I'm willing to bet that micro that controls the motor, can't run while the flash settings are being re-written. I bet you could set it up so that you could reprogram it while at a stop. Why do you want to program it on the fly?

 

[freesiderxl]

thanks for the reply.

a few reasons, i suppose. mostly out of curiosity, they wrote in big red letters that you can't reprogram while it's on.

other reasons:

perhaps if your battery is really low and you're afraid you can't get home, you could reprogram the the controller on your ride to only let out a trickle of juice to so you could at least limp home without having to push the thing home.

conversely, if some maniac is chasing you, you could reprogram the controller to a more aggressive setting, without concern for efficiency or battery conservation.

 

[MikeB]

I think you need to make a distinction between 'reprogramming' the controller, and altering the running parameters.

You CAN alter the parameters, since my bike does it constantly. I've got a BCU (Bike Control Unit) that monitors things like motor and battery conditions, and will reduce output power if needed. I'm pretty sure this is done by sending messages to the Kelly to reduce the max output setting. I've also got a Hi-Lo switch on the dashboard that will reduce power if I want to be conservative.

My bike is a C130 from Current Motor Company, btw, not my own construction.

 

[freesiderxl]

thanks for the reply.

yes, you are right, i think this could be viewed as "altering the running parameters" instead of a wholesale reprogramming.

The BCU from Current looks very promising, but it seems like an inhouse creation. Have you heard of any third-party companies making a BCU? A google search yielded only results including Current.

Any idea how theirs works?

Kelly's stern warning not to "reprogram" their controller while the motor is on, I think is a stern warning against altering running parameters as well, ie plugging anything into the rs232 port while the motor is on.

If your c130 has a hard-switch, maybe that work in limiting current is not happening inside the controller... But i really don't know...

any other thoughts?

 

[Gregory]

I think my Kelley has a TURBO switch, so enabling that in the software then may allow two different speeds/modes of running?

 

[MikeB]

The BCU from Current looks very promising, but it seems like an inhouse creation. Have you heard of any third-party companies making a BCU? A google search yielded only results including Current.

Any idea how theirs works?

Kelly's stern warning not to "reprogram" their controller while the motor is on, I think is a stern warning against altering running parameters as well, ie plugging anything into the rs232 port while the motor is on.

If your c130 has a hard-switch, maybe that work in limiting current is not happening inside the controller... But i really don't know...

I have a vague knowledge about how the BCU works, but don't know many of the specifics. Yea, it's an in-house creation for Current, and one of their key pieces of proprietary expertise, but the basic mechanism is just an embedded CPU and custom software. The BCU name is possibly unique to Current, but virtually every modern car on the road has some sort of vehicle master control computer that does the same basic tasks. I know for certain that the BCU is listening to the CAN-Bus signals from the Kelly, but I don't know the path for BCU-to-Kelly communications. The hard-switch for Hi-Lo does go through the BCU, since I suggested we could hijack it's function for debugging an unrelated issue, and it would be just a software change. I suppose it's possible that their power restriction is via the throttle signal, rather than to reprogram the Kelly, but I don't think that's their approach (though it could be yours).

If you do connect to the Kelly while running, I suspect there's some work to be done around voltage potential differences and grounds, since you might easily fry a component by sending more than the appropriate 3-5v through a wire. But that's implementation details, and a good EE should be able to figure it all out pretty quickly. Kelly may be more worried about amateur attempts to connect, which is who the warning is directed towards.