Project #3. Two motors, Three wheels, Six grand!

[recumpence]

Well, here is the latest build.

This is production KMX E-trike #1. I have gone toward a very modular layout of my drive for single or double motors. So, with various motor sizes and single or double capability, there are many variations to choose from. For this trike, I am going crazy with two Astro 3220 three turn motors. I will run two Castle Creations HV140 controllers with caps added, and 12S (48 volt) 50AH of lipo. The target weight of the trike will be 85 pounds total including the 50ah pack.

The trike itself is a KMX Typhoon. This is a decent platform to start with due to its extremely rugged design, tons of room to work with, and very low to the ground. It also has a totally useless rear brake. That will be removed in favor of a left side sprocket. The drive unit will be clamped to the frame with CNC machined clamps that will be anodized and CNC engraved.

I upgraded to Maxxis Hookworm tires. The stock tires are not good for hard cornering. These Hookworms are awesome!

The total value of this particular trike will be right at $6,000 for all individual components. I will be doing precious little custom fabrication in this trike (all trikes I build). So, considering the proffit I make on some of the components, I can build these quickly and charge only the value of the individual components without any labor and still do well on the sale (proffit). So, this is the direction I am going.

Anyway, the trike will be an honest 12,500 watts. I will gear it for 40mph. Accelleration should be brutal. I am guessing the range at 25mph should be close to 100 miles (a minimum of 80 miles for sure).

I machined a carbon fiber bearing support to hold tension on the pairing belt as you can see. The drive unit as shown is 10 inches long and weighs 10 pounds.

This trike should be done by the end of the month pending the machining of the drive parts I need beginning July 17th.

This trike (as I mentioned) will be for sale for the $6,000 the components I have installed (or about $4,000 without the pack). I will be building a few more trikes with milder setups soon.

So, enjoy the pics! I will post more as the build progresses.

Matt

 

[VRdublove]

Looks awesome Matt! I had no idea how great those twin black 3220's would look tucked under there! I'm excited to get rolling on mine. We're gonna have a motley little gang of these guys on the roads!!

 

[recumpence]

The more I think about it, the more I like the trike setup (trikes in general). The direction I want this to go is toward true EV Personal transport more than that E-bike. What I mean by that is, I want to set this up to be fun with good pedalling capability, but also to be practical for running errands and general transportation. I know a normal E-bike is fine for that too. But, there is something about the trikes that make them more car-like without the drawbacks of a car. Also, the KMX trikes have a certain rugged quality about them that takes away the fragile feeling some bicycles have.

Matt

 

[12p3phPMDC]

Looking good!!

Those KMX trikes have a HUGE amount of space under the seat...

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

Awesome!

The trike itself is a KMX Typhoon. This is a decent platform to start with due to its extremely rugged design, tons of room to work with, and very low to the ground. It also has a totally useless rear brake. That will be removed in favor of a left side sprocket. The drive unit will be clamped to the frame with CNC machined clamps that will be anodized and CNC engraved.

Nice review of the KMX Typhoon here:
http://www.utahtrikes.com/ARTICLE-60.html

The rear brake sounds useful:

Using the front and rear brakes together results in extremely fast stopping.

One of the exciting aspects of seperate front and rear brakes is the capability of performing stunts and tricks. Using just the front brakes can lift the rear wheel off the ground resulting in a "stoppie". If you'll be doing that a lot you may want to add the KMX Stunt Wheel. By using the right amount of rear brake in a turn you can do sliding turns and even 180s.

Anyway, the trike will be an honest 12,500 watts. I will gear it for 40mph. Acceleration should be brutal.

8)

 

[PaulM]

Accelleration should be brutal.

If you can keep the rear tire from breaking loose . . . .

Could make for some awesome donuts though.

Looking forward to the video either way!!

 

[deecanio]

indeed, this should be epic!!!


D

 

[johnrobholmes]

Oh yeah, watching this!


Got those HV140s on lock for you.

 

[recumpence]

Cool! Those HV140s are in stock?

I will be shipping your motor and belt with pulley Saturday (I was out of material, its a long story).

If you have them in stock, shoot me an email with the total and I will send you a check minus the motor cost as my PP funds are depleted.

Oh, I have all 4 of the HV140s sold right now, so I need the others for my trike.

Matt

 

[johnrobholmes]

Im waiting for production, but have the backorder placed. Probably a few more weeks on them. Plenty of HV110's here since you changed your order last time :lol:

 

[recumpence]

Oh, come on, you wanted a bunch of HV110s in stock, admit it!

I will take two of those HV110s. I am sending out a bunch of stuff Saturday. Your motor will go out then. I will have a small ballance for the two HV110s at that point. Oh, I also want 4 throttles. Bob at Astro is taking his sweet time setting my PWM throttles, so I will be doing it for a while.

I will talk to you later about cost, etc.

Matt

 

[JEB]

This setup should require some special driving instructions Riding my over powered trikes this one will be a tire eater!

Matt, I guess I missed it- one controller for each motor, controlled by one pot?

 

[recumpence]

Yup, two HV140s run by one throttle. THe two controllers will have parallelled input leads from the throttle.

I know it will be difficult to ride. But, hey, that is the price you pay for horsepower!

Matt

 

[recumpence]

Here are some pictures for you.

This is a twin 3220 drive on a Typhoon. You can see the mount plates that sandwich the drive and the frame rail. The entire assembly moves forward and back to adjust chain tension. You cannot tell by this angle, but, the drive chain is a pretty good distance from the frame. There is plenty of clearance.

Oh, for extremely high power setups like this, we are machining torque arm kits that will go from the jackshaft (at the freewheel output) to the rear of the trike connected to the seat support bolt. That will eliminate any flex that may be present. The torque arm will also be adjustable to compensate for chain adjustment.

This trike as it sits is pretty much mechanically finished other than the torque arm and a Lipo rack that I am welding together that will bolt under the seat on the left and right sides of the frame spar. That rack will hold 48 volt 40 or 50 amp-hours of Lipo.

Oh, I am also making CNC aluminum and carbon fiber console kits that will put a CF console sort of between your knees on an aluminum standoff from the pedal boom. That part is almost finished. I will post picturs of it soon.

VRDub is also selling KMX trikes with my drive systems. He will have two up and running soon.

My wife is out of town next week. So, I will be filling orders and finishing the trike. It is 12.5kw. I will gear it for 40mph top speed. That should give it absolutely violent accelleration.

This trike will be $6,000+. However, an E-trike should be able to be setup with one smaller motor and less battery for far less money.

Anyway, I will be posting more pics as production advances.

Matt

 

[grwsaltspring]

Very cool set up!

What is your take on using a set up like this in a rainy climate? (like the Pacific NW, Canada and US)

Do you think it would be possible to create a floor pan and over head canopy for a trike like yours or is this a fair weather bike?

Cheers Greg

 

[recumpence]

Hmm, I never tried it.

I can tell you a simple rear fender would keep the motors dry. A canopy would be cool! Heck, you could just go with an entire velomobile.

Matt

 

[JEB]

Matt; What type-brand name lubricant do you plan to use on the #25 chain?

When I used the wet type (moly grease) it ended up getting thrown off.

The dry type (spray on-to dry) it did not last long, with the non rollar chain,(#25-#35) the sprockets would notch/wear.

Jim

 

[spinningmagnets]

Some bike messengers who put several hours a day every day on their bikes are using wax. The claim is that lube oil attracts and holds grit, requiring frequent cleaning and re-lubing, plus wax doesnt make dirty smears on your clothes like oil, and also doesnt wash off when rinsing off bike before you carry bike inside your apartment.

Buy a $3 thrift-store pot with handles, lay several butter knives in a skillet of hot water and set the pot on the knives. This makes a double-boiler so the pot-wax doesnt experience hot spots. The stove-top heats the skillet of water, and the water heats the pot-wax.

Throughly clean the chain the first time, and then coil up chain in warm pot-of-wax. After you see no more air bubbles, retrieve chain with a wire-hook (coat-hangar from a dry-cleaners?) and suspend it over the pot to drip off excess. Exterior wax will flake off on first ride. Repeat every 1,000 miles or as neccessary.

If you overheat and wax catches on fire, turn off heat and put lid on pot to deny it oxygen. Any lid will do, a cookie sheet, skillet, or a cutting board. I have no experience with this, but it sounded interesting. http://www.socalvelo.com/sub/misc/chainwax.htm

 

[northernmike]

Oh my god, what a colossal undertaking. This stuff works great:

If you're really worried about getting your dainty self or pretty bike dirty, put a splash shield on the damn chain. Next?

What does that twin-drive weigh, Matt? Very nicely done!

 

[recumpence]

That twin 3220 drive (without frame mounts) weighs 10 pounds even.

You would be surprised how long that #25 chain lasts. My recumbent has over 1,000 miles on it with the same #25 chain.

The PK Ripper has 500 miles of HARD abuse on it without any issues, no stretch, no tooth wear.

I just use light oil. I also neglect my recumbent chain because it is hard to get to. I lube it when the links start to bind. Even with that neglect, the chain is fine.

Plus, this chain is so innexpensive, it is no biggie to replace it every couple years or so.

Matt

 

[recumpence]

Here is one part for a CNC machined center console. This arm will clamp to the boom with a nice CNC clamp. The front panel is a piece of 3mm thick carbon fiber. You can mount a CA and cycle computer there. There are also two 5mm holes tapped on the top of this part for a water bottle cage.

Matt

 

[jimprice09]

your kmx look great man

how fast?

 

[recumpence]

Well, with over 12,000 watts on tap, it is powerful enough for 90mph or more. However, I will gear it for 40mph.

I want huge accelleration.

Matt

 

[Storm]

Matt I admire your work but it wouldn't surprise me if you never get to use this 12.5Kw for traction with the skinny wheel and top speed will be an issue without suspension. Alas you will be able to smoke it at 40Mph

 

[recumpence]

Probably so. I actually hope I can spin the rear tire. That would help protect the driveline.

I know VRDublove has a 10kw E-tek on his KMX trike and it does not spin the tire. I just hooks! So, we shall see.

No suspension is an issue on any bike. I have gotten used to it with my recumbent. Go Karts have no suspension either.

It is a matter of scouting the least bumpy route.

Matt