Project #3. Two motors, Three wheels, Six grand!

[EVTodd]

Race karts are designed to have a certain amount of flex that acts somewhat like a suspension. You can also use different diameter (and thickness) rear axles to dial in the right amount of flex. Race slicks that heat up and get like bubble gum don't hurt either.

 

[Storm]

Go karts are designed for smooth track use not roadways. I sound all neg Great trike, love your work, cant wat to see it in action.

 

[EVTodd]

Go karts are designed for smooth track use not roadways. I sound all neg Great trike, love your work, cant wat to see it in action.

Actually, there are a lot of kart races held in downtown areas on closed public roads that are not exactly racetrack smooth . Granted, it beats the hell out of your ribs but they sometimes race on not so smooth surfaces at speeds well above 100 mph. Don't get me wrong though... I don't think you can compare a race kart to a trike. There is a ton of r&d that goes into modern race karts. I'm sure there is for trikes too but for different reasons.

 

[paultrafalgar]

I know a normal E-bike is fine for that too. But, there is something about the trikes that make them more car-like without the drawbacks of a car.
Matt

Right on! Just ask your ass and neck why that is!

 

[michaelplogue]

Just gotta say, I would really love one of these trikes! Unfortunately, I just wouldn't feel safe riding it in this city. Even with flags, flashing strobe lights, and a steady stream of bottle-rockets firing from it - I'd still end up getting squished by the crazy drivers around here.

 

[recumpence]

Just gotta say, I would really love one of these trikes! Unfortunately, I just wouldn't feel safe riding it in this city. Even with flags, flashing strobe lights, and a steady stream of bottle-rockets firing from it - I'd still end up getting squished by the crazy drivers around here.

Tell me about it.

My riding style (mindset) is "Ride as though you are invisible, because you probably are!"

Matt

 

[recumpence]

Here are some trike drives.

There is a stage 1 drive (single 3210 motor with belt drive)
Stage 2 (3220 with chain drive)
Stage 3 (twin 3210s belt driven together with chain drive to jackshaft)

The stage 2 and stage 3 drives are for VRDublove. They are shipping tomorrow. The stage 1 drive is for one of my Typhoons. My other Typhoon is getting a stage 4 drive, two 3220s!

Oh, I have a torque arm developed and installed on my stage 4 Typhoon. I will post pics of it tomorrow.

Enjoy the pictures.

Matt

 

[deecanio]

sweeeeeeeeeet 8)

looking at the stage 3 with envy meh may as well wait for a stage 4

D

 

[recumpence]

Here are some more pictures.

I finished the torque arm and the battery rack.

The torque arm is length adjustable for chain tension (along with moving the drive unit along the frame rail). It has two bearings pressed into the end at the jackshaft to relieve the torque on the drive unit bearings. It also eliminates frame flex caused by all the power.

The battery rack holds twelve 6S-5AH packs. They will be wired to 12S 30 amp/hour configuration. I have another 20ah I can add if I need to. But, I want to try to keep the weight down.

For those who are wondering about the front placement of the battery pack, I did that because I found that trikes handle MUCH better with the weight placed as far forward as possible. I moved the seat as far forward as I could and mounted the pack up front. This gives extremely good cornering manners. I did some pedal testing and found that the trike only requires a small amount of leaning inside on the corners to eliminate tipping. A totally stock Typhoon will tip on very hard corners even if you lean inside. Not this trike!

Also, no there is not too much weight up front for good braking without endoing. Will it endo? Yes. But, so will a stock trike if you brake hard. It takes some seriously hard braking to lift the rear wheel.

Anyway, the rack is MIG welded from 1/2 inch box tube. I spent 3 hours fabbing it tonight.

Man, I have worked 28 hours in the last two days!

I gotta go to bed...............

Enjoy the pics.

Matt

 

[Miles]

I like the adjustable brace, Matt 8)

 

[etard]

I am soooo impressed with what you have done here. That torque arm alone shows your talent in engineering and then actually following through with so much function. Amazing! I can't wait to see how you cover the battery tray (carbon fiber?). Keep up the good work, once finished you really need to have a semi-professional video made along with a website to truly showcase your talents here. What is it they say? A picture is worth a thousand words, but a video...

 

[johnrobholmes]

Unfortunately, I don't think it will work at all. What I propose is that you ship the entire project to me so I can "fix" the bugs. I will gladly pay for shipping. After I have ridden it a few thousand miles I will send it back and tell you how to fix it.



:lol: :lol:

 

[michaelplogue]

Enjoy the pictures.

Matt

You know, You're going to get banned from the forum for showing sexually explicit photographs on here........ Now I gotta go to the bathroom and clean myself off............


:wink:


.

 

[GGoodrum]

Yipes, that's a lot of Lithium between your legs.

 

[recumpence]

Yipes, that's a lot of Lithium between your legs.

I do not know if I should laugh at that or put you on my "Foes" list for making an indecent proposal. :wink:

Yes, the battery cover will be carbon fiber. I have tons of carbon available still from my RC heli manufacturing days. CF is flame retardant and has good ballistic properties. So, if a pack goes BLAMMO, my legs should be fine. Lipos don't go up in smoke while in use, though. That is primarrily a charging issue.

Anyway, this trike is truely becoming a friggin beast. It pedals fine, I must say. But, I highly doubt it will see much pedalling. I plan to use this as a showcase item to help sell my stage 1, 4kw trikes. You know, that sounds funny. I have gotten used to 4kw being "Small".

Oh, the two HV140s will be mounted in a CF/aluminum housing on top of the console post. That will assure minimal wire length to to the packs, and it will allow very quick access to the main battery disconnect should anything exciting happen.

Now I need richard to set me up with a 300 amp board.............

Matt

 

[recumpence]

A picture is worth a thousand words, but a video...

If this thing will smoke the tire, I would love a video of the premature destruction of one Maxxis Hookworm.

Hmm, smokey burnout donuts would be cool. 8)

Matt

 

[jmygann]

Lithium's under the family jewels ... i know how you feel

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Here are some trike drives.

There is a stage 1 drive (single 3210 motor with belt drive)
Stage 2 (3220 with chain drive)
Stage 3 (twin 3210s belt driven together with chain drive to jackshaft)

Matt

What's the rational for the twin 3210's? Isn't a single 3220 the same power with less complexity?

I am soooo impressed with what you have done here...

Amazing!...

Keep up the good work, once finished you really need to have a semi-professional video made along with a website to truly showcase your talents...

I totally agree on both the quality of your work and the website. I sold my wife's 1990 Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo for $1,500. It sold very easily because I did a nice Web Page:
http://mitchji.home.comcast.net/~mitchji/EbikeMisc/FisherHKII.html

IMO I did a better job on a Web Page to sell one bike than you are doing for a small business. As a minimum I think you should have a site with a page for each of your current builds (Recumbent, PK Ripper and Trike). This should be a good description of the finished result rather than a description of the build process and include a range of rough prices and options for similar builds. Similar builds should be more profitable because a lot of the leg work has been done. For example about half of your PK Ripper time was leg work so if you build and sell a similar bike for about the same price your hourly wage will be almost double.

You should also have a page dedicated to the drives with prices.

Since mounts seem to be a bottleneck and shipping frames isn't very expensive you might want to offer custom mounts as a service.

 

[recumpence]

I have a web site now. It is not filled with info yet, though. I am working on that.

The rational for two 3210s is two fold;

#1 Two 3210s will put out more power for a longer period of time than one 3220 because of thermal mass and saturation.

#2 Two motors allows for two controllers. Much more power can be had with two controllers.

Also, a twin 3210 setup is only a small amount more costly than one 3220 drive. You do need to buy a second controller at that point, though.

Matt

 

[www.recumbents.com]

Hi Matt.

Too cool. Just a note from HPV racing experience, tadpole trikes can get squirrelly above 30 MPH, especially when braking hard. Maybe the extra weight will help.

-Warren.

 

[recumpence]

Agreed.

Tommy runs a Typhoon at 56mph without stability problems. His trike weighs 120 pounds, though.

So, I am thinking you are correct about the weight.

Oh, I would love to convert a HP Velo Scorpion full suspension trike next. It is kind of spindly, though. So, I would go with "Only" 4kw or so.

So, where can I get a discount on a Scorpion? $4K+ is a bit steep for a starting platform.

Matt

 

[12p3phPMDC]

More awesome stuff Matt!

That square tube has alot of advantages when it comes to clamps.
You don't have to worry about rotation on the tube!

Warren,
It's good to have you on here! I'm a regular visitor to recumbents.com.
You have compiled a huge amount of HPV info that is a great reference for
the ebike guys too.

 

[JEB]

I was thinking about building a full suspension trike from scratch, sketched up a front end using a similar design, (as the Scorpion FS) slept on it a few days.

The amount force/stress on the sliding member being so far from the axle gave me some consern as to how long before it would start to become loose/wear running over rough roads from the side pounding (not like a front suspension fork where the main shock is transfered to the springs).

But what killed the project completely was the change in toe in/out as to the amount of weight on the front wheels, and the change when a compression of one or both springs when going over a bump.

The last trike I built used a straight across tie rod, the FS has two that are of a angle to the rear of 15deg? or so, maybe that will reduce the changes as to toe in?

Any thoughts? am I right or wrong?

All though there are a lot more parts needed, the old "A" arm design looks to be the best bet.

Jim

 

[maiz]

you might find this guy's experience helpful. he built a full suspension trike from an auto engineer's perspective. the result seems to be a significant improvement in ride quality over conventional full suspension trike designs. he documents his process over 16 articles:

http://www.speedpedal.com.au/cms/articles.html

would love to see this concept coupled to some rc motors!

jorge

 

[Grinhill]

The last trike I built used a straight across tie rod, the FS has two that are of a angle to the rear of 15deg? or so, maybe that will reduce the changes as to toe in?

jim, the straight across rod will cause the tyres to scrub a little. The angled rods use the "ackerman steering principle", which ensures that the inner wheel turns with a smaller radius than the outer wheel.