PUNCTURES-- how to prevent????

[BATFINK]

Well after finishing my latest project i have been on two 30 mile commutes, on both commutes I've had punctures.

commute 1:

Schwalbe marathon Pro Puncture resistant tyre - puncture leaves me stranded about 10 miles from destination i decide to hang over the front handlebars and give it full throttle for another 5 miles to a road where a family member picks me up. Back tyre (brand new) is completely wrecked.

commute 2:

decide to upgrade the tyre to a schwalbe big apple puncture resistant tyre as i don't have suspension on my bike. again another puncture, i checked inside the wheel incase maybe a spoke was causing the problems but couldn't see anything.

cycling mostly canal way paths but was forced onto concrete for fear of more punctures.

This is completely spoiling my Ebike experience, i just feel like it is completely unreliable and feel like throwing in the towel.

I thought about lining the tyre with the "kevalr" protection from the old tyre and glueing it on there to double up.

does that slime stuff help for punctures?

would i be better getting some crazy knobbly tyres as most of my tyres are designed mostly for road and light off road?

any advice could save me from going back to my car ;-(

 

[BATFINK]

oh and I'm running mac motor and 48volt ping all at rear of bike, should i be trying to lose weight, I'm about 10kg over my usual, maybe if i starve myself for a few weeks the bike won't even know I'm on it

 

[BATFINK]

i am also building a full suspension bike from scratch, will that be any better?

 

[fractal]

I know somebody who uses this : 40mm panaracer flataway http://www.panaracer.com/accessories.php
Supposed to be really good.

 

[GMUseless]

What kind of tire pressure are you running? Are you getting pinch flats?

Having done a walk of shame a month ago...I always carry a spare tube and tools now.

 

[Drunkskunk]

depends on what kind of punctures you get.

I run DH tubes (Heavy!) and 4x4 Tire slime. the bike stuff is worthless. I've had punctures, but never had a total flat and I have rode through briar patches on purpose with this bike.

Good tire liners are helpfull, thick tubes and tire slime help. good tires help. but nothing can prevent everything.

Do you know what caused the punctures? Or where they were on the tube?

 

[Ykick]

You want Slime because when you take a nail, staple, or some crap in the road Slime will at least slow down the loss of air. 9/10 - times I've managed to ride the bike several more miles. If you hit something significant at speed and pops right out you usually hear it whooshing for a few rotations until the Slime makes it's way to the hole and will stop leaking for a while.

Preventing all punctures? Good luck with that! My current tires are CST Cyclops with 2.5mm thick Downhill tube plus several ounces of Slime. Couple flats per year, like I said, usually leaks slow enough to get where I'm going but if not, I've gotten pretty good at patching a tubes without removing the wheel - excellent thing to master for a hub motor eBike...

Some bikes tend to get more rear flats than others. Probably wheelbase, front tire usually rolls over nail or something which kicks it up at a good angle to spear the quickly approaching rear tire. Depending on the speed and wheelbase, the object can lay back down before the rear tire comes along. But other speeds and wheelbases seem to take an object more than others.

Motorcycle tires would probably help but I've had 7 flats at speed on motorcycles in my 35 years of street riding so by virtue of experience 'can't say they're 100% flat-proof either.

 

[Hugues]

there are some other threads on this recently,

after having so many flats, i0've upgraded to Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTB, no flats for past 2 months i think.

Statistically it's not very representative, but i'm satisfied also with the grip and the smoothness and quietness of the ride when inflated real hard.

Be careful to clean the inside of the tire and the tube very well when changing. I had some very small pieces of glass inside my tire, i did not see them at first and got 2 flats in 2 days.

good luck.

 

[dogman dan]

I run slime, and lots of it. not slime filled tubes, but the 4x4 grade chunky slime. Sometimes you have to hunt down tubes you can get it into because a skinny inside diameter valve stem can be smaller than the chunks. Tubes need to be the thick puncture resistant ones. The thicker the tube, the better the slime can clog up the hole. With slime, it's still important to carry a pump for the longer trips. Once the pressure drops enough, the tube squirms and the plug pushes through. With a hard tire, the slime plug stays put better. Lots of slime. 6-8 oz per wheel. More for off road bikes if you live in the desert.

It does work, about twice a year, I routinely dismount the tires on my dirt bike, and remove 100-300 inch long mesquite thorns from the tire, and replace the tube. I may as well be riding through boxes of staples on the dirt bike. Barring a large puncture, like a roofing nail or larger, I often don't have to mess with the commuter bike tubes till it's time to repalce the tire.

Once you do get a big puncture, or just 300 little ones, it will be a nasty mess when you change the tube. Old slime tubes can have the slime recycled. Just cut the tube and squeeze out the slime into a funnel, and back into a saved slime dispenser bottle.

Various tire liners work well too, mostly by being so thick the small thorns like goatheads don't penetrate. I don't know of any so tough that they really turn a nail or large staple. Somthing huge just ruined a tire anyway. You can make pretty nice liners out of worn out street slicks. Cut off just the bead, and you get some sidewall protection too. Some liners can actualy cut the tube. As mentioned above, rim tape and no loose sharp crap in the tire when you mount it helps a ton.


Every intersection has it's pile of metal, but you don't have to ride right through that crap. Just another reason to take the lane at a light or stop sign.

 

[Jason27]

I think we all get punctured tires at some point. I had one a month ago, ran over some glass. Ebikes are heavier and this makes tubes easier to puncture.

I use Kevlar tires and thicker thorn resistant tubes on my bike.

 

[kmxtornado]

As a recumbent tricyclist, I definitely try to avoid flats. It's no fun getting one in the back drive wheel. I assume you guys have similar fears as I'm feeling the same way about my new ebike. Here's a little history:

SLIME:
I didn't use the Slime brand, but a similar tube with built in gooey stuff inside to fill any holes. Worked for awhile, but I still got a flat. Called up the company and they sent me replacement tubes for free. I stopped using those.

KEVLAR LINED TIRES:
Yup, Schwalbe's got some good ones. The Marathon's are pretty heavy duty as they are. One step up is the Marathon Plus as the other member had already mentioned. These things are thick. Heavier than most.

THORN RESISTANT TUBES:
These things are uber thick and heavy. My friend uses these on his trike and he's never gotten a flat while using those - ever. We've been riding together for probably about a year. I was expecting a lot of uphill climbs on my latest long distance ride from SF to LA (7-days 545 miles) and weight mattered to me. Call me a weight weenie, but I definitely didn't want to use these. I bought them with the intention of using them, but changed my mind last minute. They're still in storage. 16" and 20" if anyone is interested. PM me and I'll give you the full specs.

TUBE LINERS:
There's huge controversy about these. Some say they actually cause flats b/c of harsh edges. Those that love them blame the installers for putting them in wrong. I really have no opinion one way or the other. I'm just avoiding it for the possible chance that it might be true.

-----

It's really only the back wheel that you really need to be resistant. The front ones are so much easier to change since it doesn't involve removing the drivetrain to replace a tube. If you're worried about weight, I'd recommend getting a Schwalbe Marathon or Marathon Plus for the rear and go with something much lighter for the front. That's what I did with the trike. I got the Marathon in the rear and Marathon Racers in the front. From least puncture resistant to most, the order is like this:

Marathon Racer > Marathon > Marathon Plus

Of course Schwalbe has other types of tires you can look at that offer a variety of durability. I just happen to know about Schwalbe b/c that's all I had used. My new e-bike has cheapo tires all around. Not worried yet. In my years of college, I road in city streets and got a flat once. So I'm not really that worried. But that's just me personally. You guys might have harsher roads or may ride offroad in which case your situation is clearly different and would require a different way to defend against flats.

With mt bike tires, I really wouldn't be that concerned.

 

[itchynackers]

My successful formula (so far) is:

-Specialized crossroads armadillo tires
-extra rim strip (from old punctured tubes)
-kevlar liner
-Kenda downhill MTB tubes (2.25mm thick)
-automotive slime

I run about 4 oz of slime, BUT, I do notice some imbalance when moving at 30+mph sometimes. I would recommend not running more than about 2 oz.

 

[TonyReynolds]

What do people here think about converting to tubeless with the Stan's System?

Anyone have luck with it? Do you need a specific rim type? Special spokes?

???

 

[John in CR]

Batfink,

The true route to a trouble free wheel is to use motorcycle spokes, rim, tube, and tire. Bicycle stuff is all just an expensive joke in comparison. You have a motor now, so an extra pound or two, or even a few pounds, doesn't matter at all unless you're talking about a folder that you need to carry on a train or something. 250lbs, 125lb bike, over 10k miles, zero flats. I did have to true the wheel once, but that was mostly due to the several times someone came up to talk about my bike and I forgot to take the chain and lock off and bent spokes starting to roll backward out of the parking place. A chain through the wheel makes a pretty good parking brake.

John

 

[BATFINK]

wow some great tips guys,

plan of attack:

1. Get HEAVY DUTY TUBES i didn't even know you could get special DH tubes so i think i better get some of those,

2. LINE MY TYRES AND RIMS. also i will line the inside of the tyre with the old schwalbe marathon plus that i destroyed last week when i ran it flat for 5 miles. (the metal rim of the tyre is showing at some parts) so easily salvageable il trim it and stick it inside the tire, i also notices some thick clear green plastic tube tape at my local bike shop and i just so happen to have a similar roll of heavy duty plastic that is used to separate doorway areas in factories and stuff so i might trim that for the tyre and use some sort of glue on the inside. ( what glue would be best?

3. GET SOME SLIME - Sounds like i need to get some slime and load it up, il look for the 4*4 stuff

4. failing that i will buy hard rubber wheels and a suspension seat and just bounce my way along the road

5. I would run schwalbe marathon pro but they punctured the same as the schwalbe big apple did today and i need the Big apples as my bicycle has zero suspension. Its an old Trek 800 antelope

6. I have a full suspension frame and think that will have to be my next project as maybe the bumps i am getting at 20/30mph are not helping matters, sitting at 48volts 20amp and mac speed kit, but for the 30 miles I'm commuting i think il need 60volts and 30 amps in a backpack on a full suspension all terrain machine as i will need knobbly tyres and they will give greater resistance

 

[geetarboy]

If you had 2 flats in 2 rides, both on the rear wheel after changing the tube & tire, I would take a very close look at your wheel, rim and rim tape. I agree with all the comments about extra protection. As far as a full suspension frame goes, it won't be much easier on your tires but it's alot easier on your ass. 8)

 

[Jason27]

I agree. He should look over the rim for anytjing sharp sticking out. I once had a flat due to a puncture in the stem valve from a sharp on the metal rim

 

[Drunkskunk]

More Ideas for you. Run bigger tires. Larger tires have a larger contact patch with the ground. That means the weight of the bike is divided over a larger area. And that means that the force on any given square inch of tire to the ground is less. So the pressure that the tire has on a nail head or glass shard is less, and less likely to puncture. Its called ground Pressure.

I run 2.5" Maxxis Hookworms, the 3ply Kevlar kind.

DH tubes are hard to get in your LBS, unless you life in the north west. Best to order them. http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TU707A04-Maxxis+Presta+Dh+Tube.aspx

 

[jimw1960]

Also, make sure you are using the right size tube. Most 26" tubes are goodfor up to 2.125 inches wide, so if you put them in a 2.35 inch Big Apple, they will be overstreched and more susceptible to flats and blowouts, especially around the valve stem.

 

[amberwolf]

THere's some other threads discussing this, too, which you might find helpful:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3186
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31682
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31496
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26714
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21578
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20643
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30223
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19628
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18098
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18699
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13759
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12510
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19577
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23507


Unfortunately there are some posts with probably valuable information that have been deleted by their posters, but there is still a lot of information there.

 

[miuan]

What do people here think about converting to tubeless with the Stan's System?

Anyone have luck with it? Do you need a specific rim type? Special spokes?

???

Yes, Stan't works surprisingly well. Maybe not so surprising once you figure out how clever the design is. The only way of failure is tearing your tyre's sidewall or carcass, causing too big of a hole for the fluid to seal it. I've thrown two seasons of downhill racing on mine, not even a single let down.
Ever since, I've populated their various sized rim strips on most of my other bikes (AM, XC mtb's, and my 2.35" Fat Frank ebike too) and had many miles without having to mess with anything except refilling the white goo every couple of months as it got dry, and topping air pressure every now and then.
Recently I changed my setup and was lazy to install the rim strips, but as soon as I have enough time, I go for it! You can't beat the reliability / weight ratio.
Stan's kits are readily available from CRC in Northern Ireland. I believe they ship worldwide.

To answer the previous questions, no you don't need any specific rim, but you need to carfully select your rim strip size depending on your rim width.

 

[dogman dan]

So what caused your two flats in the first place? Metal or glass in the road? inch long thorns like I have here? No rim tape?

Not sure you need everything all at the same time. What's your specific problem? I don't know of tires that can tolerate the larger nails, or bottoms of broken bottles. Just learning to avoid the big crap in the road goes a long way, but on an ebike you travel faster a lot making seeing stuff in time harder.

 

[TonyReynolds]

When I did my first build last summer, I got two flats, which quality rim tape fixed. Despite being unable to feel ANY sharp edges on the double-wall rims, the holes used to install the spokes were still cutting the tube. I changed my build with a different bike and have had no flats, though not that many miles either. I HAVE noticed that my current bike has Presta valves versus Schrader, and I've never had flat with this bike, nor have I had the slow leaks that I've had with Schrader tubes. Prestas have a nut to lock down the valve stem, plus the fact that the valve stem is metal. More times than I'd like to count I've had Schrader tubes fail due to a cut valve stem...

 

[EVTodd]

I ran slime tubes for a while and really liked them until I started having problems with the slime clogging the valve stems. At that point I couldn't put air in the tire. Has anyone else ever had that problem?

 

[amberwolf]

Sometimes. Just unscrew the valve and wash it with water, usually fixes it right up. I also tend to carry extra valves out of old ruined tubes with me, because I had a rock get in an uncovered valve once and bend it, causing it to deflate in minutes. Had to keep pumping it up, ride a few hundred feet, pump, ride, etc. Sucked. So I always carry at least one extra valve core.