Qulbix Raptor 140

[Hyena]

They come in either black or gold from DNM so it's what ever your local distributor orders. The local Aussie distibutor orders them in gold so that's why my first few bikes used gold but I've now ordered black direct from DNM (as does Qulbix) so any of my future builds will be black. Regardless they only offer the fork guards in white which I reckon is a bit silly, especially on an all black fork. You can paint them easily enough of course but it's a bit annoying when you're ordering them wholesale that this can't be optioned.
On that note, they'll also do coloured anodizing too but with a minimum order of 100. Needless to say, I stuck with the standard black ones!
If you look up Steam25's build thread he managed to get sweet talk someone into making him a blue set though which look awesome.

 

[Jonboy]

Hi guys, I'm starting to think of my new battery setup for my 140. Currently I'm running turnigy 24s 3p @15ah / cro / Lyen18 fet & hitting 6.8kw which I'll leave it at as don't want to smoke the controller (60amp battery current set controller). Looks like I'll be going adaptto max e so the 24s route goes out the window.. I see hyena and others going multi rotor HK packs and others going Samsung 25r or similar.
Ok so what is the biggest capacity, most cost effective battery setup at this point in time that fits into a 140 frame??? preferably chargeable by an adaptto, I suppose 90v is the only limiting factor with that....

Your thoughts please.. Before I go and buy the wrong gear lol

Thanks

jon

 

[Jackrabbit]

I'm going for 18s 4p 8000mAh nano tech packs. Fits in with no problems and allows fitting of the controller (max-e) in the battery compartment as well.

Just waiting for the wheels to come back from the builders and I can finish the build. I'm hoping for a range of 50-60 miles.

 

[Hyena]

If you want to use the multistar 16ah packs you could fit 18S3P for a whopping 48ah. This will drop your top speed a little over what you're seeing on 24S but with the overspeed function on the adaptto you can still maintain most of that top end when needed.
Otherwise if you want to max out the voltage you can go 21 or 22S 2P which is 32ah. (this is what I've fitted in the pics you saw of mine)
If you're not the DIY type when it comes to battery building then the 25R packs are the way to go for a plug and play solution.

 

[Offroader]

You could fit a 40 amp hour 22s pack of multistars. That is what I am considering, or maybe only 32 amp hours. You can always add to your pack easily if 32 amp hours is not enough.

With the Max-E not drawing many phase amps, I get about 20% more range compared to my Lyen 18fet and that is with using higher peak wattage and OVS.

I think the multistars are the best overall batteries to use for simplicity and weight/cost savings.

The beauty of the Max-E charging is that you can easily charge packs of odd sizes like 22s.

 

[Jonboy]

If you want to use the multistar 16ah packs you could fit 18S3P for a whopping 48ah. This will drop your top speed a little over what you're seeing on 24S but with the overspeed function on the adaptto you can still maintain most of that top end when needed.
Otherwise if you want to max out the voltage you can go 21 or 22S 2P which is 32ah. (this is what I've fitted in the pics you saw of mine)
If you're not the DIY type when it comes to battery building then the 25R packs are the way to go for a plug and play solution.

Thanks Hyena, I don't mind building up a pack but the lipo setups you mentioned including the one you intend to run would all need to split a 16000 mah 4 cell pack to make up 18s, 21s & 22s unless I'm missing something
Regarding your pics It looks as if you only have 7 packs of the Multistar High Capacity 4S 16000mAh Multi-Rotor Lipo Packs so I'm defo missing something here as how are you getting 22S 2P and 32ah from them?? Surely you'd need ten 4s packs and an aditional one to split...

quick edit or have you got 11 in there?

You could fit a 40 amp hour 22s pack of multistars. That is what I am considering, or maybe only 32 amp hours. You can always add to your pack easily if 32 amp hours is not enough.

With the Max-E not drawing many phase amps, I get about 20% more range compared to my Lyen 18fet and that is with using higher peak wattage and OVS.

I think the multistars are the best overall batteries to use for simplicity and weight/cost savings.

The beauty of the Max-E charging is that you can easily charge packs of odd sizes like 22s.

Off roader, again talking of odd sizes I guess you're talking about making packs up from 4, 5, or 6s lipos then splitting lipo packs open to make up the additional 1 or 2s etc (21 / 22s).

BTW thanks for the info on the Lyen controller, it seems to be holding it's own with my current 24s setup. I got it set at 60amps battery 140 ish phase, it's maxing out at around 6.8kw / 50mph.

Cheers Guys

 

[Hyena]

I don't mind building up a pack but the lipo setups you mentioned including the one you intend to run would all need to split a 16000 mah 4 cell pack to make up 18s, 21s & 22s unless I'm missing something

You don't need to split packs, nor do you want to be doing that!
Mine is a mix of 4 and 6S packs in series and parallel. Ignoring the parallel groups it's 3x6S packs + 1x4S in series. That gives 22S. On my previous bike I used 3x6S and 1x3S to give 21S. If you look at below pic you see the 3x6S packs in one block and then the 4S extra packs off to the side.
Also the sabvoton arrived and as you can see it fits nicely with room to spare for the DCDC converter, SSR and other wiring and accessories. Happy days for an all enclosed neat setup

 

[Jonboy]

I did think of a mix of pack cell counts... but I can only see the 16ah packs as 4s & no 6s at that capacity on the HK website? ?

 

[BCTECH]

I don't mind building up a pack but the lipo setups you mentioned including the one you intend to run would all need to split a 16000 mah 4 cell pack to make up 18s, 21s & 22s unless I'm missing something

You don't need to split packs, nor do you want to be doing that!
Mine is a mix of 4 and 6S packs in series and parallel. Ignoring the parallel groups it's 3x6S packs + 1x4S in series. That gives 22S. On my previous bike I used 3x6S and 1x3S to give 21S. If you look at below pic you see the 3x6S packs in one block and then the 4S extra packs off to the side.
Also the sabvoton arrived and as you can see it fits nicely with room to spare for the DCDC converter, SSR and other wiring and accessories. Happy days for an all enclosed neat setup

when using max-e, it will squeeze some more space. Do you think it's possible to have enough space to put 2 more 4S and make it 30S total? Or 4S + 2S make it 28S ?

 

[Hyena]

I did think of a mix of pack cell counts... but I can only see the 16ah packs as 4s & no 6s at that capacity on the HK website? ?

Grasshopper, your eyes are open by you do not see :lol:

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__68822__Multistar_High_Capacity_6S_16000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pac_UK_Warehouse_.html

(backordered like local stock here in AU too. Your best bet is to set up an email notification as they dont get many in stock and they sell out quickly)

when using max-e, it will squeeze some more space. Do you think it's possible to have enough space to put 2 more 4S and make it 30S total? Or 4S + 2S make it 28S ?

Max-e doesnt go above 90v does it ? You'll want to go the other way and limit to 21S

 

[marcn]

Amazing how much more wh you can fit in there using lipos, compared to 18650s!

 

[Offroader]

The multistars are really the best batteries for ebikes. They have a lot of difference sizes so you can get 18s, 21s, or 22s.

I'm not sure yet what the best voltage to use with the max-e 21s or 22s.

The reason they work so well is that you do not need a high C rating for an Ebike. A high C rating will just add weight and you will never push the amps unless your pack is very small.

I have 20c turnigy packs in my bike and it is a total waste of volume, weight, and money, as I will never come close to reaching the amps they can put out. If I built the same pack with multistars it would be 20% less volume, 20% less weight, and around 20% less cost if using the 16,000 packs.

Unless you want to build your pack or want a very small battery pack, then there is no reason to build your own pack. People commented after building their pack they wished they would have just bought the multistars. I take it that you may be able to build a slightly cheaper pack and as light weight as the multistars, but I haven't researched this enough to compare the cost with the 16,000MAH packs which are the cheapest multistars.

I also believe that servicing your battery is easier with the multistars as you can easily pull the packs apart and check them on a hobby charger to find bad cells. Any bad cells you can pull the pack and swap in a new pack and then take your time to attempt to repair the individual cells.

multistars are the best way to go as long as you have a 32 amp hour pack. Sometimes I wish my Turnigy 20c cells would just die so I could replace them with the multistars.

 

[zener]

The multistars are really the best batteries for ebikes. .

 

[Offroader]

I guess you're bringing up safety, that is debatable. Not sure how big of an issue it is with a raptor which has the batteries enclosed in metal. I'd like to see a battery fire in a bike that has the batteries enclosed in metal. I wonder how much smoke would actually come out the of the small holes. There is no way the fire would get hot enough to melt through the metal, but you could get some smoke.


Either way I'm not worried because the multistars are the same chemistry used in every cellphone, laptop computer. Do you see anyone worrying about that? I also have my bike in my garage so I may be biased, I just don't worry about fires.

This has been debated before, if you want best performance then multistars are the best. If you want safety then you should consider another chemistry. I only look at performance and safety just doesn't matter to me.

But really with a raptor that has the batteries enclosed in metal, and the odds of having a fire are very slim with proper charging, just don't use a cheap china bulk charger. If there was a fire you would get a little smoke from the few holes in the battery compartment, but there is no way you would melt through the metal.

I wouldn't charge in the bedroom while you sleep. For the better performance and lighter weight, I would totally risk a little smoke damage in the rare case that the batteries did catch fire. But that's me.

 

[zener]

Not only safety but also cycle life.
Look in the satiator page. Charge these NCA cells to 4.05V or 80% and you can get >1400 cycles. The new NCA like 25R HE2/4 and VTC5 have 200wh/kg an 80% charge correlates in 160wh/kg thats what the normal RC lipo bricks have.
Only a very few cellphones and laptops today use LiCo2 like the RC bricks. Thay usually use a safer form like LiMnCo2.

 

[Offroader]

Not only safety but also cycle life.
Look in the satiator page. Charge these NCA cells to 4.05V or 80% and you can get >1400 cycles. The new NCA like 25R HE2/4 and VTC5 have 200wh/kg an 80% charge correlates in 160wh/kg thats what the normal RC lipo bricks have.
Only a very few cellphones and laptops today use LiCo2 like the RC bricks. Thay usually use a safer form like LiMnCo2.

I'll have to do a comparison and research those other chemistries. I've been meaning to do that for a while now but it is very time consuming.
I always wished someone would make some kind of chart or something that has all the details about the types of batteries. Including weight, safety, cost, etc.

Without having researched the other chemistries, I assume the multistar chemistry is going to give you the best WH/KG, but will be more unsafe.

 

[Jonboy]

I did think of a mix of pack cell counts... but I can only see the 16ah packs as 4s & no 6s at that capacity on the HK website? ?

Grasshopper, your eyes are open by you do not see :lol:

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__68822__Multistar_High_Capacity_6S_16000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pac_UK_Warehouse_.html

(backordered like local stock here in AU too. Your best bet is to set up an email notification as they dont get many in stock and they sell out quickly)

Well well.. I can't find that pack only from your link Clever clogs!! thanks mate..

I can only get this lot:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1387__85__Batteries_Accessories-MultiStar_Multi_Rotor_.html

No 6s 16ah ? as You say they are out of stock though, I'll set up the email reminder..

@ offroader I know what you mean about wanting your existing pack to give up so you feel better about the upgrade... I reckon 22s is the way, if packs are charged to 95% It'd soon be a 90V. I'm sure I've read the MAX E can run over slightly over 90V but restricts power in some way.. I can't quite remember how though...

 

[striker54]

I'm sure I've read the MAX E can run over slightly over 90V but restricts power in some way.. I can't quite remember how though...

At 92 volts the limiting starts and cuts all power to the motor above 98v.

 

[Offroader]

Qulbix has another 27% discount on their webpage. I just sent my order over for a 140 frame with the motorcycle footpegs.

My plan is to have two raptors in operation.

 

[Xtr6]

Hey Guy's,

Just bought a used Raptor 165. I am building a new lipo pack for it because the range is just 12 km. with the pack that came with the bike.
This has 2 6s 10 Amps in serie with 2 pairs 4s 5 amps. There are 3 pairs 4 s who are parallel and these are joined in serie with the 6 s lipo.
This wil give me 24s with 100 Volt and 10 Amps.
I also have a pack of 4 times 6s 5 Amps in serie. That came with the bike.
The quistion is can I use these two packs parallel so they give me 100 Volt and 15 Amps.

Or wil it melt down, the two packs wil be excatly the same voltage when they wil be joined in parallel.

XTR6

 

[BCTECH]

Hey Guy's,

Just bought a used Raptor 165. I am building a new lipo pack for it because the range is just 12 km. with the pack that came with the bike.
This has 2 6s 10 Amps in serie with 2 pairs 4s 5 amps. There are 3 pairs 4 s who are parallel and these are joined in serie with the 6 s lipo.
This wil give me 24s with 100 Volt and 10 Amps.
I also have a pack of 4 times 6s 5 Amps in serie. That came with the bike.
The quistion is can I use these two packs parallel so they give me 100 Volt and 15 Amps.

Or wil it melt down, the two packs wil be excatly the same voltage when they wil be joined in parallel.

XTR6

May i know which controller you are using for the 100V ?
thanks

 

[Offroader]

Hey Guy's,

Just bought a used Raptor 165. I am building a new lipo pack for it because the range is just 12 km. with the pack that came with the bike.
This has 2 6s 10 Amps in serie with 2 pairs 4s 5 amps. There are 3 pairs 4 s who are parallel and these are joined in serie with the 6 s lipo.
This wil give me 24s with 100 Volt and 10 Amps.
I also have a pack of 4 times 6s 5 Amps in serie. That came with the bike.
The quistion is can I use these two packs parallel so they give me 100 Volt and 15 Amps.

Or wil it melt down, the two packs wil be excatly the same voltage when they wil be joined in parallel.

XTR6

I honestly can't figure out how the pack is setup by how you explained it. But if you already have a working 24s pack in the bike you can easily add the 4 6s packs in parallel with it. Just make sure all the voltages are similar before connecting in parallel.

You can add different capacity packs in parallel as long as the cell count is the same.

The biggest issue you will face is balancing all the individual cells. There is a chance you will have cells that will have different voltages as you use your bike and charge it. I am not sure how what packs you will try and match in series but there may be a greater chance that different packs have slightly different capacities, and this may make your cells go out of balance quicker.

You will have to monitor each cell very closely which is easy by having all the batteries JST-XH connectors coming out of your bike. Each of the parallel packs will have to have their JST-XH connectors connected also to each other.

I would check the voltages many times in the beginning until you see that the cells stay balanced.

The worst thing you could do is just put the batteries in the frame and start bulk charging without checking each individual cell.

Your other option would be to buy a Max-E and BMS and this will allow you to easily monitor the cells and also balance them during each charge.

Here is a picture of my JST-XH connectors, 3 of them for 6s each for my 18s pack, coming out the top of my bike and I can easily check voltage and also balance charge my pack with my hobby charger. All the individual packs are connected to these JST-XH connectors. This works so well and easily that I didn't even bother to connect my BMS.

 

[Xtr6]

These are the specs.
Crystalyte HT3525
- Cycle Analyst 3
- Lyen 18Fet Controller
- 24S Lipo System with Bestech BMS (88V) 5AH for first testing
- 100V Meanwell Costumbuild
The first package is build with a BMS.
The new package that I have build wil also get a BMS but now I am monitoring the cels with a simple alarm on each balancing lead.
So charging of the new pack wil go not on the bike.

 

[Jonboy]

Guys anybody tried to fit ten Multistar 4S 16000mAh into a Raptor 140 frame.. I've measured it up I think it'll go , not in one built up brick though. Just got the Max e so the bms & a breaker needs to go in too. If any of you guys done this please post up .. I'm waiting on stock at HK-UK.

Thanks Guys

Jono

 

[QuestionMan]

It should for sure fit. This picture has six 16,000 MAH 6s packs and could easily fit eight in the frame opening alone. Two 6s 16,000 packs is the same size as 3 4s 16,000 packs.

Should be able to fit at least fifteen of them in the frame.

Why all the 4s packs? Are you doing this for easy hookup into the max-e bms?