Razor EcoSmart Hub Motor Upgrade

[chuyskywalker]

I picked up a Razor EcoSmart Metro for free! The previous owner said "I dunno, it's broke and I don't care" so, awesome.

Turns out the rear bearing cup was splitting in half. Which led to the ball bearings falling out, the axle coming loose, and the chain popping off. The right side components were chewed up and a complete mess.

Ordered a new rear tire/assembly, swapped it in, and the scooter is back to like-new condition. Nice.

While I had it under-the-wrench I realized I had some old 36v LiFePo4 battery packs from old, broken scooters around and decided to wire them up in parallel. Works perfectly.

I did have to move the controller to the side, but no big deal.

It moves just fine, gets the normal 17/18mph top speed but goes about 14 miles, which is pretty great.

---

Now, what I'd really like to do is mod this into a little surprise speed demon. Here's what I'm thinking:

• 72v 1000watt 16" hub motor
• 72v 21ah battery
• Controller

The idea would be that the battery should pretty much fill up the entire deck space, the controller will mount under the basket rack, and the motor would, well, mount in the rear.

Do these seem like reasonable choices?

As far as I can tell, and I am no expert, these look like they should all work together. The motor will need me to stretch the rear frame out about 20mm, but the steel frame should handle that.

 

[chuyskywalker]

I got all the parts in and wired up. Shorted the battery once, let me tell you that gives off quite the show.

However, the motor doesn't sound terribly healthy at the moment.

[youtube]fxt9WKLYnPU[/youtube]

I believe I have pretty much everything I care about wired in properly at the moment, but something is clearly off.

 

[chuyskywalker]

Turns out the motor and controller don't agree about what green and blue are. Flipped those around and it's happy!

 

[chuyskywalker]

[youtube]jKOVk1mr3pI[/youtube]

Now we're cookin'. As noted above, with all the wires arranged happily, it spins real nice and (yay) doesn't over heat. You can see the regen braking kick in at the end as well. The tire is mounted as tubeless...after I ran out of tubes attempting to get them on :x

On the bench, its built-in speedo says top speed of 45mph -- we'll see how well that goes once there's some real load.

 

[chuyskywalker]

Got it all wrapped up!

Mounted from aluminum and the controller on the rack:

Cable routing:

Had to extend 20+ wires. That was....fun:

Also fun, the motor uses a motorcycle brake system, so I had to get a new lever and brake cable. Ooops

Finally, here's the deck with battery, wires, and foam padding all installed:

----

And it works GREAT. I can get it to blast along at 43mph (which is way to g'damn fast). And that's without putting it in the "+15% more" mode. It'd get reaaaaal close to 50 if you did that and weighed a few pounds less than me

Hopefully, I'll get a chance to range test it soon, as I have no idea how far it'll go at the moment.

 

[6th]

:lol: that battery, I love your determination. I just found one myself, the previous owner didn't want to deal swapping out the OEM batteries. Where did you score your parts other than the battery?

edit:

I see your breakdown

 

[chuyskywalker]

:lol: that battery, I love your determination. I just found one myself, the previous owner didn't want to deal swapping out the OEM batteries. Where did you score your parts other than the battery?

edit:

I see your breakdown

To be honest, now that I've had it for a bit, I would suggest trying a 48v Lithium battery first. (You can't pass the charger through the control, but just bypass it to do that). You'll get a nice range boost and I hear it'll scooch up to just above 20mph which is pretty good.

With all the parts I put it, this thing does 45mph, but without suspension it's extremely uncomfortable.

 

[dlkawashima]

40+ mph is crazy fast. Is the rear brake only good enough for that kind of speed?

I agree that trying a 48v lithium battery pack is a safe and easy upgrade. As for my upgrades, in order:
1. Using a 48v 20.4ah 18650 battery pack (Panasonic 3400mah in 13x6 configuration), I hit 23mph in otherwise stock configuration.
2. Changing to 48v Fast Scooters contoller and throttle saw little difference ... maybe 1mph gain in speed.
3. Changing out rear sprocket to 55 tooth (from the stock 65 tooth) jumped speed up to 27mph.
4. Changing battery to 52v 12ah (Two Samsung 3000mah 'Pocket Rocket' packs parallel connected) I've touched 30mph. Also have two Sanyo 3500mah 7x2 packs (52v 14ah) and speed is very similar to the Samsung packs ... maybe a tick slower.

 

[chuyskywalker]

40+ mph is crazy fast. Is the rear brake only good enough for that kind of speed?

Alone? Heck no. Fortunately, the regen braking can be set pretty aggressively and that helps a lot. Even then, though, it's not nearly as good as my standup scooters with dual disc brakes.

3. Changing out rear sprocket to 55 tooth (from the stock 65 tooth) jumped speed up to 27mph.
4. Changing battery to 52v 12ah (Two Samsung 3000mah 'Pocket Rocket' packs parallel connected) I've touched 30mph. Also have two Sanyo 3500mah 7x2 packs (52v 14ah) and speed is very similar to the Samsung packs ... maybe a tick slower.

Honestly, that's probably good enough -- and pretty simple, too! Without suspension, this thing rides really rough at 25+.

 

[Skippo]

40+ mph is crazy fast. Is the rear brake only good enough for that kind of speed?

I agree that trying a 48v lithium battery pack is a safe and easy upgrade. As for my upgrades, in order:
1. Using a 48v 20.4ah 18650 battery pack (Panasonic 3400mah in 13x6 configuration), I hit 23mph in otherwise stock configuration.
2. Changing to 48v Fast Scooters contoller and throttle saw little difference ... maybe 1mph gain in speed.
3. Changing out rear sprocket to 55 tooth (from the stock 65 tooth) jumped speed up to 27mph.
4. Changing battery to 52v 12ah (Two Samsung 3000mah 'Pocket Rocket' packs parallel connected) I've touched 30mph. Also have two Sanyo 3500mah 7x2 packs (52v 14ah) and speed is very similar to the Samsung packs ... maybe a tick slower.

I know this is a while back. Did you use the stock controller with the 48v battery first before changing to the fast scooter controller?

 

[chuyskywalker]

Did you use the stock controller with the 48v battery first before changing to the fast scooter controller?

I did, actually, and it does work. Gives a small boost in speed, but mostly just switching to Li chemistry gets you way more wh/lbs -- ie, more range.

 

[Skippo]

Deleted

 

[Skippo]

Did you use the stock controller with the 48v battery first before changing to the fast scooter controller?

I did, actually, and it does work. Gives a small boost in speed, but mostly just switching to Li chemistry gets you way more wh/lbs -- ie, more range.

Chuyskywalker do you still have the parts you took out off? I would buy them off you.
I just brought a non-running ecosmart. It is confirmed with a burn motor. But who know what else.

 

[chuyskywalker]

Chuyskywalker do you still have the parts you took out off? I would buy them off you.
I just brought a non-running ecosmart. It is confirmed with a burn motor. But who know what else.

No joke I've been staring at the old motor on the floor in my garage for over a year. Shoot me a DM and you can have it for whatever the shipping cost is if you want it. Shouldn't be too bad as I'm up near SF. I _probably_ have the original controller too.

 

[Scorpio94]

40+ mph is crazy fast. Is the rear brake only good enough for that kind of speed?

I agree that trying a 48v lithium battery pack is a safe and easy upgrade. As for my upgrades, in order:
1. Using a 48v 20.4ah 18650 battery pack (Panasonic 3400mah in 13x6 configuration), I hit 23mph in otherwise stock configuration.
2. Changing to 48v Fast Scooters contoller and throttle saw little difference ... maybe 1mph gain in speed.
3. Changing out rear sprocket to 55 tooth (from the stock 65 tooth) jumped speed up to 27mph.
4. Changing battery to 52v 12ah (Two Samsung 3000mah 'Pocket Rocket' packs parallel connected) I've touched 30mph. Also have two Sanyo 3500mah 7x2 packs (52v 14ah) and speed is very similar to the Samsung packs ... maybe a tick slower.

What kind of rear sprocket did you use? Like the name brand and if you got it online what’s the link?

 

[a4lyon]

Has anyone had success doing a similar setup but adding any kind of suspension? ChuySkyWalker, I'm also wondering if you have updated links for the hub motor, batteries, and controller you used. I really like the complete setup and am working on my own version of it. I would like to add a keyed power control, volt meter, front suspension, front disc brake, fast charger, led headlight and taillight, horn, and seatpost suspension with a new seat. If I go with the 72v setup I'm thinking it might be a good idea to include some kind of throttle limiter control in case I want to let the kids on it.

I would love any feedback from anyone who has had success with any similar upgrades on a metro.

 

[chuyskywalker]

Has anyone had success doing a similar setup but adding any kind of suspension?

Not me; I don't have my metro any more, but I imagine adding suspension would be quite complicated and get into the realm of welding which is beyond me.

ChuySkyWalker, I'm also wondering if you have updated links for the hub motor, batteries, and controller you used.

No, I do not.

I really like the complete setup and am working on my own version of it. I would like to add a keyed power control, volt meter, front suspension, front disc brake, fast charger, led headlight and taillight, horn, and seatpost suspension with a new seat.

There are some very aggressive targets there that will require some very serious modifications. Frankly, I think that for what you want you really should probably start with a different base platform.

If I go with the 72v setup I'm thinking it might be a good idea to include some kind of throttle limiter control in case I want to let the kids on it.

It's pretty common to find a 3way switch on controllers which will put the thing into low/mid/high modes, but if you go with something VESC/Grin based, you can certainly find ways to add limits pretty easily.

 

[a4lyon]

Has anyone had success doing a similar setup but adding any kind of suspension?

Not me; I don't have my metro any more, but I imagine adding suspension would be quite complicated and get into the realm of welding which is beyond me.

With the hub motor you used, did you end up having to modify/stretch the frame at all. I saw you mention that you thought you might, but couldn't ever find if you did?

I really like the complete setup and am working on my own version of it. I would like to add a keyed power control, volt meter, front suspension, front disc brake, fast charger, led headlight and taillight, horn, and seatpost suspension with a new seat.

There are some very aggressive targets there that will require some very serious modifications. Frankly, I think that for what you want you really should probably start with a different base platform.

I understand that I may have to give on some. I'm kind of locked into this platform for the moment. To add suspension I was hoping to just find a front fork off of a kids mountain bike that might fit without too much modification. I was also thinking of adding a seatpost with built-in suspension which wouldn't require any modification.

Any recommendations you could offer for a hub, battery, and controller that would compare with what you had would be greatly appreciated, I just don't want to have to reinvent the wheel. What were the specs and dimensions of the two 36v batteries you used?

 

[Fisheboy1956]

Well I guess it's time to throw my hat into this thread. I have followed this thread ever since it started.

My interest lies with the Razor Ecosmart Metro platform. It stems from the pursuit of a more economical alternative to Ford's Ojo LEV. I own 4 Ecosmart Metros (Original) that are in various stages of design change. all were purchased online several years ago. Over the course of time I have come to learn the strengths and weaknesses of my Razors. Before I proceed any further with this post, I need to express the fact that " I am not an expert". I am not an electrical engineer. I am not a mechanical engineer. i am not a design engineer. I am only posting to share the experience i have gained by my 60+ years of riding, modifying, tinkering with some form of 2 wheel transportation (MTBs,Road Bikes, Recumbents, Motorcycles, Scooters,). Also the relationships that were developed. with people in those professions. With adding need to confess my DIY tendencies.

To address this thread. The Ecosmart Metro's frame lends itself very well to a Direct Drive Hub Motor, as long as you are using 18" or 16" rear rims with either spoked or cast hub motors. Which the previous posts have demonstrated. You could possibly use a front wheel hub, for which I have no experience nor desire. The Razor EM is not a svelte beast (upper 70's lbs.), nor a payload champ in stock form. This steered my research towards power, combined with efficiency, of hub motors. I landed on Leaf Bike Motors. I purchased several of their cast hub motors in rear wheel 16" and 18" 1000 watt models. I bought into their efficiency numbers that they posted. Probably should be taken with a grain of salt. Rear seat and chain stays needed to be widened to accommodate the hub motor.

Something I learned fairly early. A well researched controller to match your hub motor purchase is worth every penny and the effort! I am not saying that you cannot achieve good results with purchasing more economical components. However, for me, I believe u get what you pay for. Nobody wants be left high and dry with 10 miles to go. Wait! We are talking about electrical components, Right! Therefore, I chose the Phaserunner/Frankenrunner controllers from Grin Tech. I had purchased several controllers on the lower end of the economic spectrum. It just seemed that there was always something that I needed to work around with each of them. Not to mention support, or labeling of inputs, and size. Cooling could be an issue.

Ok, let's shorten the story. 3 years ago, I started by using one of the Razors as the prototype. Seatpost suspension, Inexpensive 20" suspension disc brake fork (ebay), adjustable foldable extending steering stem for foldable bikes, handlebars, hydraulic Ebike brakes. Throttle, controls, ect... Then about a year ago. I came across an ad for Monster Scooter, selling Razor Hub Motors as replacement for the Ecosmart Metro HD/SUP.

I have taken a second Razor EM and installed that Ecosmart Metro HD/SUP motor. I had to stretch the rear triangle to accommodate the wheel. Reconfigured, tuned to original specs, regen, 48v 20ah battery upgrade, stock brake setup, new throttle, new fork, steering, handlebars. In its current testing form. I have driven it for a approx. total of 65 miles. I have limited the speed to the original 18.5 mph. Zero to top speed in around 4 secs. Great torque. It will accelerate up modest inclines, it is silent, and performs well while carrying a payload of 220 lbs. I do believe it is capable of more with the proper programing and higher voltage.

 

[caspercrosthwait]

I picked up a Razor EcoSmart Metro for free! The previous owner said "I dunno, it's broke and I don't care" so, awesome.

Turns out the rear bearing cup was splitting in half. Which led to the ball bearings falling out, the axle coming loose, and the chain popping off. The right side components were chewed up and a complete mess.

Ordered a new rear tire/assembly, swapped it in, and the scooter is back to like-new condition. Nice.

While I had it under-the-wrench I realized I had some old 36v LiFePo4 battery packs from old, broken scooters around and decided to wire them up in parallel. Works perfectly.

I did have to move the controller to the side, but no big deal.

It moves just fine, gets the normal 17/18mph top speed but goes about 14 miles, which is pretty great.

---

Now, what I'd really like to do is mod this into a little surprise speed demon. Here's what I'm thinking:

• 72v 1000watt 16" hub motor
• 72v 21ah battery
• Controller

The idea would be that the battery should pretty much fill up the entire deck space, the controller will mount under the basket rack, and the motor would, well, mount in the rear.

Do these seem like reasonable choices?

As far as I can tell, and I am no expert, these look like they should all work together. The motor will need me to stretch the rear frame out about 20mm, but the steel frame should

Was that a good rear hub motor?
What brake cable did you use for your drum brake?
Thinking about doing this build in 60 volt.

 

[chuyskywalker]

Was that a good rear hub motor?
What brake cable did you use for your drum brake?
Thinking about doing this build in 60 volt.

The motor worked just fine. No issue with that, really.

Probably just something I managed to scrounge up off amazon. I did a quick scan of my purchase history, but couldn't find anything specific.

Sorry I couldn't have more specifics -- it's been 6 years since I did this build and 4/5 years since I sold it to someone else.