RC Balancing Chargers-FAQ-pros & cons-recommendations

[MitchJi]

Hi,

This post by Gary plus some recommendations by Luke made me think that RC Balancing Chargers are often an often overlooked option that would be a good choice for a lot of us. Many have settings for both Lipo and LiFePO4.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?uid=6504&f=14&t=9170&start=0#p141737

LiPo battery care and basic information

Almost all of the newer LiPo/RC chargers in use today, however, have safety features that monitor each cell, during charging, to make sure not one goes over 4.25V, period. Above about 4.35V, or so, the fireworks begin.

One issue with all these very safe RC chargers is they are designed to be used at the flying field and so they use 12VDC on the inputs. To use them at home means you need an "extra" AC/DC 12V supply.

Most of these also are limited to 6, 10 or 12 cells, so if you have a larger pack configuration, it becomes complicated.

Perfect monitoring and very safe sounds very good. The issues don't sound like show stoppers. This seems like a potentially easy and affordable way to get high quality cell balancing/charging for both Lipo and LiFePO4.

Please ask any related questions you might have.

Please point out any problems that might be overlooked.

Please jump in with recommended chargers , power supplies, balancing connectors and any related tips. I'm sure Luke, Matt, Gary, Methods, and Ypedal all have useful information posted all over. I think it will useful if we collect it all in one thread.

I have a few questions:
1. Are there any high quality, affordable for chargers available for packs greater than 12s (Gary states "most are limited")?
2. If the pack has more cells in series than the charger supports does the pack need to be divided for charging?
3. Can the chargers be easily combined in the same way to get higher charging rates (i.e. two 10s chargers for a 12s pack [each charger charges 6s at a higher rate than a single charger would charge 10s])?
4. Are there any dedicated power supplies designed to plug into the wall and run these chargers (I think Methods mentioned one but I couldn't find it with Google)?

 

[wasp]

i often dream of building a custom pack and thought about this
it is possible and smart as the rc world has lots to offer
you could build packs 1- 12s and use one high powered charger/balancer
some do lifep04/LIPO/SLA /NIMH combined
some will even let you charge up on dc
i can see the day i'll have to hold up a sign need boost lmao
thx for the post

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9229

Look through the Chargery site. Everything that guy makes rocks

One issue Gary mentioned with RC chargers is they are designed to run on 12V. Here is a solution:
http://www.chargery.com/adapter.asp

AC-DC Adapter (DC Power Supply)

The product will transform AC 100-240V into DC 12 - 15V, its maximal output power reaches 250W, it may power most 12 V chargers.

Connect any 12V Charger which is supposed to be powered from a Car battery or gel pack directly from your AC Wall Outlet, the switching power supply will provide up to 16 Amps. it is also equipped with both US / Japan and Europe AC plugs and works using 100 - 240V AC so it may be used internationally.

Dual output
Output terminal is 4mm gold banana jack, it is designed to connect to 2 different loads simultaneously.
* AL alloy case
* Compact design, easy to use and convenient to take.

Latest 350W power supply A30 has 2 sets banana gold plug, it can power 4 chargers or loads simultaneously.

 

[liveforphysics]

I have 4 of these:

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=6609

I have a fluke 189 meter, and this charger drops them off at EXACTLY the voltage I set it to charge each cell. Works fantastic, never had a problem with any of them. You do need a 30amp supply for each charger to run it at full potential. If you don't have a 30amp supply, it runs fine off even a little 5amp supply, but you obviously have to lower the charging current settings. It does 1-10s cells, and as long as you run each one from it's own 12v source, you can easily run a pair of them for charging an 11-20s pack. They never get above luke warm during charging, and they are very quick, painless, user friendly, plug-it-in-and-walk-away. If they detect any errors or funny stuff, they will shut down the charging.

And one of these:

http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_info.php?products_id=570


This charger is elaborate in every way except the stupid little spining clicking wheel. You use that wheel for most everything, and it's tedious to setup things, but it does save 10 battery pre-sets, so you just select the one you want and plug in the battery once you have it all programmed. It will do fancy pants graphs of each indivdual cell voltage as it charges, much like a CBA, and it lets you discharge packs as well. If you have computer skills you can use it's data output port to connect it to a computer and make neat graphs of charging/discharging performance. It also has a temp sensor to shut down charging if a pack gets above the temp you set. It will do 12s cells, and if they detect anything funny during charging, they shut down the charging cycle. It has a disadvantage. It only balances at 80mA, so if you get a pack way out of balance, it may not be able to get things corrected in a timely mannor. However, the balancer does also have a mode to function as a standalone balancer, and it's very accurate, just slow for E-bike sized packs.

I also have one of these that I use for my very small helicopters.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3823&Product_Name=3E_Lipo_Charger_2-5Cell_w/_Balancer

It charges only directly through the balance taps, and treats each cell like it's a seperate battery. Because of this, you can't get a pack out of balance enough to bother this thing. It takes anything you throw at it. You could build a pack with a 1ah cell and a 50ah cell and a few full cells and a few drained cells all tied in series together, and this charger will top them all off at 4.25v/cell no matter what. No settings, no fooling around, no possible way to make an error with anything, you just plug in the balance taps and hit the power switch and wait for the cell LEDs to all turn green. It's not fast, it only does 5 cells at a time, but it has it's place.


For running these chargers, you need a 12-16v supply.

For running just a single 250w charger:
http://cgi.ebay.com/250W-13-8V-18A-Switch-Power-Supply-RADIO_W0QQitemZ190290325658QQihZ009QQcategoryZ20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

For running a single big charger:
http://cgi.ebay.com/350W-12V-29A-Switching-Power-Supply-CCTV-DVR-Security_W0QQitemZ360135586237QQihZ023QQcategoryZ20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

If you are looking to power 700w of chargers, this little pair would run in series to give you that:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Pcs-350W-7V-Switching-Power-Supply-Series-700W-13-8_W0QQitemZ360135585967QQihZ023QQcategoryZ20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

If you are looking for a monster 1000w 12v power supply, they are available here.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1000W-12V-83A-Switching-Power-Supply-CCTV-DVR-Radio_W0QQitemZ360135585375QQihZ023QQcategoryZ20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

 

[tostino]

The RC charger/balancer combo from http://rclovers.com/index.htm is an amazing deal. I have it, and from what i've read it is the exact same charger (internals and all) as a TP-1010c. The balancer is also exactly the same as the TP 10s balancer.

For less than $150 including shipping, it's an amazing deal.

The charger alone normally sells for $199, and the balancer $99.

I've had no problems with mine, so it's worth a look.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Thanks Luke!

I wanted to document these before the Ebay links expire:

For running these chargers, you need a 12-16v supply.

For running just a single 250w charger:
http://cgi.ebay.com/250W-13-8V-18A-...20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Brand New 13.8V 18A 250W Switching Power Supply
Buy It Now price: AU $33.00
Shipping: To United States -- AU $40.00
Seller: eparts138

Power Supply Specifications :
* Suitable for CCTV, Radio, Computer project
* Manual Switch between 110V and 240V Input
* + / - 10% adjustable output voltage
* High Efficiency, Low Temperature, Small Size
* Built-in EMI Filter
* Over Load and Short Circuit Protection.
* Over Voltage Protection
* Auto-recovery after protection.
* Size : 199 x 98 x 38mm
Other Output Model also available:
* 5V, 12V, 13.8V, 15V, 24V, 36V

For running a single big charger:
http://cgi.ebay.com/350W-12V-29A-Sw...20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

350W 12V 29A Switching Power Supply CCTVEQ DVR Security
Buy It Now price: AU $38.00
Shipping: To United States -- AU $40.00
Seller: eparts138

Power Supply Specifications :
* Suitable for CCTV, Radio, Computer project
* Manual Switch between 110V and 240V Input
* + / - 10% adjustable output voltage
* Auto on/off cooling fan
* High Efficiency, Low Temperature
* Small Size
* Built-in EMI Filter
* Over Load and Short Circuit Protection
* Over Voltage Protection
* Auto-recovery after protection
* Size : 215 x 115 x 50 mm

Other 350W Model also available:
* 5V, 12V, 13.8V, 15V, 24V, 36V

If you are looking to power 700w of chargers, this little pair would run in series to give you that:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Pcs-350W-7V-S...20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Pcs 350W 7V 46A Switching Power Supply in Series for 700W 13.8
Buy It Now price: AU $72.00
Shipping: To United States -- AU $67.00
Seller: eparts138

Power Supply Specifications :
* Suitable for high power Radio Power Amp. Project
* Manual Switch between 110V and 240V Input
* + / - 10% adjustable output voltage
* Auto on/off cooling fan
* High Efficiency, Low Temperature,
* Small Size
* Built-in EMI Filter
* Over Load and Short Circuit Protection.
* Over Voltage Protection
* Auto-recovery after protection
* Size : 215 x 115 x 50 mm
* Weight 2.5Kg

Remark:
In series connection
* Both supply must power on/off simultaneously
* Voltage of each supply must tune as close as possible

If you are looking for a monster 1000w 12v power supply, they are available here.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1000W-12V-83A-S...20589QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

1000W 12V 83A Switching Power Supply CCTV DVR Radio
Buy It Now price: AU $168.00
Shipping: To United States -- AU $99.00
Seller: eparts138

Power Supply Specifications :
* Suitable for Radio Power Amp. project.
* Input voltage : 110 / 240V Manual Switch
* + / - 10% adjustable output voltage
Daul fan design
* Thermal control cooling fan
* High Efficiency, Low Temperature, Small Size
* Built-in EMI Filter
* Over Load and Short Circuit Protection
* Over Voltage Protection
* Auto-recovery after protection
* Dimension : (19 x 30 x 9)cm
* Weight : 3.5Kg
* Color : Black

Buy It Now price: AU $33.00 -
Shipping: To United States -- AU $40.00
Brand New 13.8V 18A 250W Switching Power Supply

Power Supply Specifications :
* Suitable for CCTV, Radio, Computer project
* Manual Switch between 110V and 240V Input
* + / - 10% adjustable output voltage
* High Efficiency, Low Temperature, Small Size
* Built-in EMI Filter
* Over Load and Short Circuit Protection.
* Over Voltage Protection
* Auto-recovery after protection.
* Size : 199 x 98 x 38mm
Other Output Model also available:
* 5V, 12V, 13.8V, 15V, 24V, 36V

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

More power related information.

Inputting a charger specifications this calculator displays the amps per channel and the size of the required supply:
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_charger.html

Lithium Battery Charger Data
This page can provide information about various lithium-type battery chargers and calculate the maximum charge rates for different cells counts. Also, if the charger requires a 12v power source, it will calculate the current draw so you can select a properly sized 12v power supply.

This section lists the maximum charge current at different cell counts for the charger specifications entered. It also shows whether the output charge current is limited by the charger's current rating or the charger's power limit.

This section calculates the amount of current the power supply must provide at various output voltages to meet the power requirements for the charger specifications entered.

These comments pertain to the charger that Luke recommended earlier but the information on using 16v instead of 12v seems like a great idea (thanks again!):

iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger
Just a note about that charger. On a 12v computer power supply, it will only do 5amps on a 10s LiPo pack. At 16v input voltage, it holds 8.5amps on the same pack. I assume it would be able to hold 9-10 amps on the lower voltage of a string of A123 cells.

You need a serious power supply to run that charger to the fullest. Mine pull around 28-30amps each! Fortunately, very compact lightweight power supplies can be bought on flea-bay for very cheap these days.

It has a very elaborate settings menu, you will want to set the charger up to "balance always", and "fast balance". I like to set the safety timer for 999 minutes, because otherwise you can't use the cycle function very well on large packs.

It lets you pick every aspect of the charging process, measures internal resistance, and does all sorts of neat tricks.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

The RC charger/balancer combo from http://rclovers.com/index.htm is an amazing deal. I have it, and from what i've read it is the exact same charger (internals and all) as a TP-1010c. The balancer is also exactly the same as the TP 10s balancer.

For less than $150 including shipping, it's an amazing deal.

The charger alone normally sells for $199, and the balancer $99.

I've had no problems with mine, so it's worth a look.

Ypedal compared them and said he thinks they are identical (including the same firmware). He got his on Ebay for almost exactly the same price:
http://cgi.ebay.com/A123-Lipoly-Nic...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

I think the iCharger Luke recommended might be a better choice. About $40 more plus shipping but the balancer is integrated (which is handy) and it supports a higher charge rate:

Warning:

This charger will be burned with smoke when charge current X voltage exceed 210 (this charger's capacity)

Sometimes burned when charged around 200W for a while without fan turned on.

But charging with less Amp. is good for battery life.

I like the "good for battery life" comment. 200W isn't a limitation, its a feature! :lol:

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

If you charge with one of these chargers you should probably use cell or parallel group level LVC.

methods recommends this one:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9229&start=0

Best damn 6S lithium monitor on the planet for $15

Here they are:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chargery-BM6-2S...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

http://www.chargery.com/cellMonitor.asp

Works for both Lipo and Lifepo4
$15
Reads 6S lipo via 0.100 spacing (perfect for JST-XH balancer plugs)
5mV accuracy - most balancers quit at 20mV
Shows you 8 things in sequence:

Total Pack Voltage
Largest Imbalance
Cell voltages for 1 to 6 (or however many you hook up)

The monitor beeps if you go under 3.0V or over 4.22V
EDIT: I forgot, you can set the LVC to any desired voltage.

Absolutely dead on voltage.
AWESOME product. Works perfectly every time.
I have been running 4 of them for several months on my big Lipo packs and they have saved my ass!

Let me say this... Anyone who goes to "Full Pack LVC" on a lipo pack is retarded to some degree. . . If the total pack has reached LVC then it is absolutely certain that at least a few of the cells are way under 3.0V.

LVC must always be handled on a cell level basis like is done with the 24 channel BMS.

If you plug these into your lipo packs then you will hear a loud BEEP BEEP BEEP any time one of your cells drops below LVC. I think you will be surprised about what happens under load :wink:

Anyone who is a nOOb getting into Lipo MUST own one of these.

Will save your butt while charging, discharging, and comes in damn handy for checking out cells.

The beeper output can drive an optocoupler that can be used to TAP TAP TAP your ebrake when you hit LVC
Does not cut you off, just gives you a warning.

In closing, please do not waste your money on these "Hobby City Lipo Monitors" as many of them suck wind. Of the many I have tried out all of them were off by at least 50mV cell to cell. Many being off by as much as 200mV.

Look through the Chargery site. Everything that guy makes rocks.

P.S. Using two BM6's for a 12S pack works well. The only thing you lose is the ability to see the Max Delta. The alarm feature still works exactly the same.

 

[curious]

There is a good deal currently on 1010B RC balancing chargers here:
http://www.lightflightrc.com/HTML/produ ... -1010B.htm
Note that this version has firmware that limits output power to 200W (each). But with some contortions (RS232 interface soldering required) the firmware can be flashed with the newer one that allows 250W output for the same hardware (I have not tried it yet though).
Here is my charging setup:

A pair of 1010B are mounted with double sided tape to a 40A 15V PSU from ebay which I've got for about $40.
Does a good job on my 2 10s A123 packs.
Beyond 10s the choices are much more limited. But if your balancing leads have sufficient current capacity you can use multiple units to charge the pack. Beware - you need to connect each charger to it's own isolated PSU in this case since most chargers use non-isolated buck/boost switching topology. In my case I have 2 separate packs so I can use common PSU.

 

[kefa]

You can always use a modified computer PSU. If you got an old one lying around for a few dollars you can put together a nice power supply. I'm currently using 2 modified PSUs to run my RC chargers.

A good article on how to do the mod:
http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply

 

[curious]

I've used computer PSU to power Astro 109 RC charger for a long time in RC hobby. This is usually the least expensive ($0) option as there are frequently spare PSU in every computer savvy person junk box.
But keep in mind that many RC chargers from the current crop achieve their max rated power at 14-15V input voltage. If you have on of those chargers it may be better to search for a 14-16V generic PSU on ebay or surplus stores.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Curious,

There is a good deal currently on 1010B RC balancing chargers here:
http://www.lightflightrc.com/HTML/produ ... -1010B.htm
Note that this version has firmware that limits output power to 200W (each). But with some contortions (RS232 interface soldering required) the firmware can be flashed with the newer one that allows 250W output for the same hardware (I have not tried it yet though).

That link doesn't work, use the following and select Products -> Chargers -> Chargery 1010B:
http://www.lightflightrc.com
Is that the same charger (earlier version) that Luke recommended from Hobby City?:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/...Name=iCharger_1010B+_300W_10s_Balance/Charger

iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger

Beyond 10s the choices are much more limited. But if your balancing leads have sufficient current capacity you can use multiple units to charge the pack. Beware - you need to connect each charger to it's own isolated PSU in this case since most chargers use non-isolated buck/boost switching topology. In my case I have 2 separate packs so I can use common PSU.

I think I understand but I'm not positive. Suppose you have a 20S pack like the image below:

If you connect two chargers as shown (all four leads have the same current capacity) and you use separate power supplies you do not need to break the connection between cell 10 and cell 11 (thick horizontal line) for charging? That applies to every pair of matched balancing chargers since the only issue is isolation?

For 12s there is the MegaPower 960 SR (12s - 180w [about 3.8A for 12s]). Link (provided by Luke above):
http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_info.php?products_id=570

There are also several Hyperion chargers that support 12s. One is a single 180w charger ($109.95 plus about $40 for the balancer) :
http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-483/Hyperion-EOS-1210i-12S/Detail

Hyperion EOS 1210i 12S 30N CHARGER
The EOS 1210i is an extremely powerful (180W, 10A max), versatile, easy-to-use charger with special features for speed charging lithium packs up to 12S!

This Hyperion charger has dual 180w outputs for up to 12 Charging ($298.95 includes balancers):
http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-1129/Hyperion-EOS-0610i-6S/Detail

Hyperion EOS 0610i 6S Duo II Balancing Charger

The Hyperion EOS 0610i Duo II is the latest version of the ultimate charger. With two LBA10 balancers built-in it can charge 2 Lipo 6-cell packs as one 12-cell balanced pack.

There is also a Hyperion 7s charger that supports networked charging in pairs for up to 14s charging ($197.95 integrated balancer).
http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-1221/Hyperion-EOS-720i-7S/Detail

Hyperion EOS 720i 7S 20A 250 watt Balancing Charger

Hyperion EOS 0720i NET 7S 16N CHARGER, with Integrated LBA10A balancer, TCS and 250W charger power. Network to 500W and 14S max (2 x 7S balanced)

All those Hyperions are listed here:
http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-Chargers/Categories

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

You can always you use a modified computer PSU. If you got an old one lying around for a few dollars you can put together a nice power supply. I'm currently using 2 modified PSUs to run my RC chargers.

A good article on how to do the mod:
http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply

Thanks. Good idea and great link.

I've used computer PSU to power Astro 109 RC charger for a long time in RC hobby. This is usually the least expensive ($0) option as there are frequently spare PSU in every computer savvy person junk box.
But keep in mind that many RC chargers from the current crop achieve their max rated power at 14-15V input voltage. If you have on of those chargers it may be better to search for a 14-16V generic PSU on ebay or surplus stores.

Good point on the 14-16v!

 

[liveforphysics]

With the 1010B, you can definately charge a 20s pack all at once if you have a pair of chargers. I've been doing it, and it works fine.


There is another slick charger that I don't own, but I'm thinking of getting one. It's the FMA 10s charger. It has the ability to charge a pack through the balance leads. This means you can charge any groups of cells. You could stick a couple A123 cells, a couple headways cells, and finish it off with a thunder sky cell or whatever you want. Plug that pack into the balance charge leads, and it will leave it always perfectly balanced and charged when it's finished, regardless of different cell capacities and Ri's and whatever. Charging through the taps has gotta be the most safe and idiot proof way to charge and balance, but it's limited to 3-4amps, due to the resistance of the balance tap leads.

It will charge at 10amps if you connect in series like a normal charger. It's also fully adjustable and measure Ri, just like the 1010B and many other highend chargers these days.

 

[curious]

Hi Curious,
Is that the same charger (earlier version) that Luke recommended from Hobby City?:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/...Name=iCharger_1010B+_300W_10s_Balance/Charger

iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger

Not quite, 1010B+ is 300W while 1010B is either 200W or 250W depending on firmware. Also 1010B+ has a built in usb port for charge monitoring/firmware updates while 1010B has none (although it can be hacked in). So 1010B+ is a better unit, but $/W is higher. Then again it is probably a temporary clearance deal on the older 1010B.

If you connect two chargers as shown (all four leads have the same current capacity) and you use separate power supplies you do not need to break the connection between cell 10 and cell 11 (thick horizontal line) for charging? That applies to every pair of matched balancing chargers since the only issue is isolation?

Yep, no problem. Just use separate PSUs for isolation.