Re: 5KW 72V Controller 36 #4410 FET's, $108 #4110's $154

[zombiess]

I thought I saw a programming header on the board. I'm guessing it might be a clone of the Xie-Chang controllers and might even use the exact same software (one of the many versions). Just try the different versions. Shouldn't be to hard to do a pin by pin comparison from the programming header to the chip then compare it to the known Xie-Chang controllers and experiment.

Even if that works it might be a good idea to replace the caps on the boards with known high quality ones.

 

[auraslip]

He probably thinks that retaining the ability to program them makes buying from his our only option. Which means he is probably just a re-seller.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I thought I saw a programming header on the board. I'm guessing it might be a clone of the Xie-Chang controllers and might even use the exact same software (one of the many versions). Just try the different versions. Shouldn't be to hard to do a pin by pin comparison from the programming header to the chip then compare it to the known Xie-Chang controllers and experiment.

Even if that works it might be a good idea to replace the caps on the boards with known high quality ones.

Cheers. I will open up my Lyen 18 fet and start doing some comparison work and seeing what is what. Do you have any idea where I would start looking for software or the hardware to wire into the controller itself? Thanks again.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

He probably thinks that retaining the ability to program them makes buying from his our only option. Which means he is probably just a re-seller.

Here's the thing- if we get a group buy going we can buy the Xie Chang controllers, custom built, 50 units. So where is his upside in holding out on the programming. We've taken the risk, bought the units, gotten good responses and given good reviews, all the seller/re-seller needs to do is offer the final piece of the jigsaw.

 

[Kin]

Little note: He might be in partnership with the actual person who does programming, who would not budge because then Leo could skip him. I don't know. He's knowledgeable about what he sells, which is exciting, but I'm just suggesting there may be more than 1 reason why he withholds programming.

 

[John in CR]

I'm not that worried about programming, because I know I can make it better than programmable. eg Adding a circuit to make my current limits and hi/low regen both switchable on the fly. I want to get some spares in hand before trying these mods, but afterward I'm left with nothing that I want to change via programming. The only remaining open controller changes I want and need are sine wave output and improving throttle response, but those are open items I must leave to the gurus on ES.

 

[gensem]

I'm not that worried about programming, because I know I can make it better than programmable. eg Adding a circuit to make my current limits and hi/low regen both switchable on the fly. I want to get some spares in hand before trying these mods, but afterward I'm left with nothing that I want to change via programming. The only remaining open controller changes I want and need are sine wave output and improving throttle response, but those are open items I must leave to the gurus on ES.

John is progressive/variable regen possible?

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Little note: He might be in partnership with the actual person who does programming, who would not budge because then Leo could skip him. I don't know. He's knowledgeable about what he sells, which is exciting, but I'm just suggesting there may be more than 1 reason why he withholds programming.

Thats true also. Who knows. I certainly am not trying to deprive anyone of an income or a living, but there must be a happy medium.

In the meantime.......

That's the best shot I could get of the chip in the Leo controller, I didn't get the schmutz on it, that was already there. Looks like a bit of heatsink compound. As we can see, there is a row of vacant pads immediately in front of it.

Flicking the board over reveals that vacant strip of pads to be all labeled "+5v"

There are also some other pads, especially due north of the chip, which seem to lead into the chip.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

The Lyen Chipset

Lyen Programme Outlet

 

[zombiess]

Someone who knows what they are doing needs to sit down and take a quick look at GPM8F3 chip set pin routing and compare it to this mystery chip sets pin routing. Should take less than 10 mins to see if it might be clone or something entirely new (rare for China, the land of copying).

I'd buy one to look at, but I've already got plenty of the great and cheap GPM8F3 (new 3rd gen 6 to 18 FET controllers), XCKJ 8B116 ( 2nd gen 6 to 36 FET controllers), and XC846 (1st gen old 6-18 FET controllers) boards that I don't want to spend any more money on controllers. I have way more than I'll ever be able to use.

XCKJ116 can probably be ruled out because they don't have 44 pins like this chip. The GPM8F3 chips do have 44 pins, but they are also just a regular 8051 micro that runs at high speed (and someones custom code) from my previous research on it.
http://www.generalplus.com/product_detail.php?pdv_no=392&func=dl

Even if it is the same processor or a clone or what ever it might have totally different code running on it.

Programability and quality are factors that are high on my list which is why I've stuck with buying from Lyen or building my own controllers. If this works for you that's great. Hopefully some smart hacker can figure out the programming. I've posted all the info I know.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Someone who knows what they are doing needs to sit down and take a quick look at GPM8F3 chip set pin routing and compare it to this mystery chip sets pin routing. Should take less than 10 mins to see if it might be clone or something entirely new (rare for China, the land of copying).

I'd buy one to look at, but I've already got plenty of the great and cheap GPM8F3 (new 3rd gen 6 to 18 FET controllers), XC116 ( 2nd gen 6 to 36 FET controllers), and XC846 (1st gen old 6-18 FET controllers) boards that I don't want to spend any more money on controllers. I have way more than I'll ever be able to use.

Thanks for your continued interest and feedback Zombiess........unfortunately all I can do at my end is spend money and take photos and keep the interest going, I have zero skills, as such.

On the other hand, if you want be to do anything, just say the word and I will try to follow any instructions - from yourself or others- as accurately as possible. I am game and will try anything once. I might take the 12Fet 36v and try something with that, if there is anything left to try.

Thanks.

 

[pelle242]

I did some reasearch from the original Hua Tong thread and concluded that the MCU was a rather old NEC / Renesas part. It is a completely different one from the infineon and not likely any existing programing software will do any good.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I did some reasearch from the original Hua Tong thread and concluded that the MCU was a rather old NEC / Renesas part. It is a completely different one from the infineon and not likely any existing programing software will do any good.

Agreed- but some of those Hua Tongs were from way back.

 

[parabellum]

Little note: He might be in partnership with the actual person who does programming, who would not budge because then Leo could skip him. I don't know. He's knowledgeable about what he sells, which is exciting, but I'm just suggesting there may be more than 1 reason why he withholds programming.

Thats true also. Who knows. I certainly am not trying to deprive anyone of an income or a living, but there must be a happy medium.

In the meantime.......

That's the best shot I could get of the chip in the Leo controller, I didn't get the schmutz on it, that was already there. Looks like a bit of heatsink compound. As we can see, there is a row of vacant pads immediately in front of it.

Flicking the board over reveals that vacant strip of pads to be all labeled "+5v"

Those are not same pinholes pictured from opposite sides of the controller right?

Do you have picture of opposite board side from first picture?

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Yeah you are correct, I made a mistake, I will dig the other photo out presently. Thanks.

 

[boostjuice]

I couldnt find a datasheet, but i did find this reverse engineered schematic for a 250W controller that also uses the X8M06-C microcontroller.
Some of the MCU pins regarding the TTL-RS232 programming are labelled. Whether or not this chip uses ROM (single write) or EEPROM (rewritable) programability is still unknown i guess, as is its compatibility with obtainable programming software.

http://www.avdweb.nl/Article_files/...ller/China-BLDC-motor-controller-36V-250W.pdf

 

[pelle242]

http://translate.google.se/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ourdev.cn%2Fforum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D5327338&act=url

says its a UPD79F9211 .

Can be used for ebikes: http://cn.renesas.com/media/support/demo_cn/E_bike.pdf

 

[zombiess]

http://translate.google.se/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ourdev.cn%2Fforum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D5327338&act=url

says its a UPD79F9211 .

Can be used for ebikes: http://cn.renesas.com/media/support/demo_cn/E_bike.pdf

That software is available, it's for and older Xie-Chang controller. They only made the EB706 EB709 and EB712 as far as I can tell from the programming software I've seen.

 

[bearing]

Can be used for ebikes: http://cn.renesas.com/media/support/demo_cn/E_bike.pdf

Interesting. From the google translation:

Feature A: 180 Degree sine wave control
Feature 2: Current and speed closed-loop
Feature 3: Two current over-current protection
Feature 4 The effect of: ultra-quiet
Feature 5: Brake energy regeneration

It would be awesome(!) if the controller this thread is about have these features implemented. I mean, sine wave and closed loop current control!

I found a related document:
Motor Control by μPD78F0714
Hall IC 180° Excitation Method
http://documentation.renesas.com/doc/DocumentServer/U18913EJ1V0AN00.pdf

And also another "ebike schematic"
http://documentation.renesas.com/doc/products/region/rtcn/mpumcu/rsszeot0001_ebike_r8c11_mcuboard_sc.pdf

 

[The Mighty Volt]

should I say Traolach Kaye?

Yeah you are correct, I made a mistake, I will dig the other photo out presently. Thanks.

Thats up to you Nader. Or should I say......"NovemberSierra" lol

How is that goot working out?

Don't get me wrong, you are a talented guy, but you need to loosen up. Stop trying to shake people down. I can spot you a mile off. Maybe I will contact the Home Office.

Peace bro!

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I feel a ban coming on.

How do you know Sangesf?

 

[zombiess]

I just wanted to add something to this about Lyen and his controllers. His controllers may be a bit more expensive than these but he does also support them, provide programming software and USB cable for them and also builds them with good quality components. I own many controllers that Lyen has built, some that were most likely built by Xie Chang themselves and now some I've built myself. There can be a huge difference in quality, especially in the capacitors which are critical to a controllers survival at the limits. You certainly are getting what you are paying for when you deal with Lyen whose prices I personally think are quite reasonable especially after building and modding some controllers. If you haven't actually built a controller yourself you should try it. It can be quite tedious and time consuming and gives you a lot of insight as to what it takes. High quality components such as capacitors aren't exactly cheap either, even in decent quantity.

This isn't meant to put down this controller, everyone has a personal price point vs what they get. I know with all the effort I've put into my own builds I wouldn't even think of selling them for as cheap as Lyen does his unless I was really in need of money and my 18 FET is just one of his that I modified.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I just wanted to add something to this about Lyen and his controllers. His controllers may be a bit more expensive than these but he does also support them, provide programming software and USB cable for them and also builds them with good quality components. I own many controllers that Lyen has built, some that were most likely built by Xie Chang themselves and now some I've built myself. There can be a huge difference in quality, especially in the capacitors which are critical to a controllers survival at the limits. You certainly are getting what you are paying for when you deal with Lyen whose prices I personally think are quite reasonable especially after building and modding some controllers. If you haven't actually built a controller yourself you should try it. It can be quite tedious and time consuming and gives you a lot of insight as to what it takes. High quality components such as capacitors aren't exactly cheap either, even in decent quantity.

This isn't meant to put down this controller, everyone has a personal price point vs what they get. I know with all the effort I've put into my own builds I wouldn't even think of selling them for as cheap as Lyen does his unless I was really in need of money and my 18 FET is just one of his that I modified.

I knew you were a big Ed Lyen fan. He does build good controllers. I have used his 18 Fet 4110 Overclocker. Brilliant. His prices are quite reasonable. I am trying to build my own controllers but I need proper working environments. I wouldn't dream of underestimating the guys talents, but lets face it, its human nature to look for more, for less, right? Who here wouldn't dream of being able to source cheap, programmable boards which we can mod and alter at our own convenience??? Its not even a question of money, its a question of speed and efficiency and flexibility. Maybe I will keep my Lyen as my main controller and my Leo as a back up. No harm there, surely?

 

[SkyCaptain]

Hey I have this contoller 24fet 100v and just powered it up today.

It seems really slow, and low power compared to my other controller I was using.

It did not come with a 3 speed switch.
But I asked leo to set it to maximum high power.

It just seems strange. It powers/revs up the motor really slowly, and has no torque. As if it is set to low power or something.

I am using the same battery and motor, I just swapped controllers.
My other controller which is only a 15fet 40amp, pulls much harder, so something must be wrong.

Does anyone know what colour the wires are for the 3 speed switch plug?
Do I just short all 3 of them to put it to maximum power?

 

[NeilP]

I answered that in your new thread about this, but sorry, I was getting confused as to which controller you had, I was thinking another controller

If unsure I think the best bet is to slide the board out the case and check/ follow the wires back to the board
One will be ground and the other two alternately connect to it for either high or low speed