Recommend a kit for a newbie

[minvec]

Hi Everyone,

New here but have read through tremendous amount of information. I would like some advice from wise folks here on what I should get.
1. Bike: Road or mountain or hybrid? Currently I have all carbon road bike and find it comfortable enough. I will get another bike for the conversion just not sure which type is best.
2. Conversion type: Mid drive or rear hub? For me reliability is #1 and power/speed is #2 and #3 would be easiness of maintenance both regular and flats.
3. Power level 250w or 500w or 1000w?

I currently commute to work. I have done around 10,000km in 10 mth. Each way is 33km/20miles so 66km/40miles per day.

My trip is fairly flat for most parts but there are sections where it is fairly steep and on the way home long grinding albeit gentle incline
https://www.strava.com/activities/694039872

At first I was looking at doing a road bike conversion with bafang bbs02. But I am a bit put off by some of the reliability issues mentioned here and the fact that I don't think I need the uphill capability of this unit. I like the fact that you can put this unit on a road bike.

Then I started looking at rear hub conversion. I like the fact that it seems to be more reliable but I am worried about the weight of the rear wheel and the fact that changing flats will be more difficult.

If this was you, with what you know now, what would you get? Thank you in advance!

 

[Drunkskunk]

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like a rear direct drive hub motor would be perfect for you. With one moving part, it's reliability is at the top. Speed is also going to be at the top. Direct drive don't come out on top with their torque, but in most cases, even a 500 watt hub motor has enough torque to put a big grin on any rider's face.

As for a bike, a hybrid style is fine for a lower powered motor up to 1000w or so. If you want to run more powerful motors, use a MTB frame and components, though you can still set it up like a hybrid. even a 500 watt motor will push a bike up past the amount of power and speed it was designed for, so you want to run stronger components, better tires, better brakes than you would need for human power alone on a road bike.

To make it 32km at 32kph with no pedaling, you need a battery with a capacity of 720 watt hours (you'll use less most of the time). A 36v 20ah would do, or a 48v 15ah. 48v is more fun.

I don't know of any vendors I'd recommend in Australia, but we have a lot of Aussies here, maybe one of them can help.

 

[chas58]

My commute is just like yours, although a little faster.

Do you have a target speed, range, distance, weight???

I have a light 350 watt hub motor and 36v9.5ah battery (just over 4kg). My pedal time is the same as yours on a normal bike, and 55 minutes on the electric bike. Yeah, taking 20 minutes off the commute time is nice! The hub motor is 328rpm, which in my case is pushing it, but I've got 200-300watts available at my legs to augment the motor. Strava seems to think we are pretty well matched.

You still want to burn 1000 calories on that ride and feel like you are contibuting by pedaling? Get a 350 watt motor. YOu want something that has 2 or 3 times your power? Get 500 or 1000watts.

check out my bikes in my signature. Which time of bike you get is personal prefference. Personally, I think a light fast bike does well with tires in the 35-42mm range. The road bike is great if you like road bikes, but anything with 25-28mm tires doesn't like rough pavement, so like anyone on a road bike, I'm looking at the pavement to avoid the rough spots. But I can sprint at 30mph, which is way past the point where the motor has given up. I also get about 25% more range on the road bike.

The mountain bike has a similar average speed (it has a slightly slower motor). I'm not going to get any mountain bike with 2.125" tires over 25mph, no matter how hard I pedal. But I don't worry about rough pavement with the mountain bike.

If you think you may want to shift, the mid drive is better (although it will put a lot more wear on your drive train). A hub motor (direct drive or geared) is maintenance free, and if you have a small motor that doesn't need torque arms - there is no real drawback to it. I'm thinking with the hills you have, you won't really need to shift gears going up a hill, since you don't seem to mind powering your bike with your legs too.

The thing I like about the road bike, are the range of hand positions, areodynamics, and extended range. You'll have to use a PAS for a throttle, or fabricate something yourself (I use a doorbell, LOL). Check out the builds in my signature...

 

[minvec]

Hi, Thank you for the reply! Looks like a Hybrid with around 500w-1000w DD hub is the way to go.

My main motivation for getting this is to:
- Ride every day without passing out from exhaustion
- Have the ability to get home/to work quicker if need to. 55 minutes + energy to spare would be awesome! I did hit 1hr mark on the way into work once, but I was too tired to do any work

I will still ride my normal bikes 3 days per week and supplement the other days with an electric bike. On those days, I will still want to pedal but probably only half as hard. So 500w sounds great. Also I only weigh around 70kg so Im sure 500w will be more than enough for me.

In fact, your road bike conversion would be perfect if not for the fact that I get about 2 rear punctures per month. I'd probably get a flatbar hybrid or something with thicker tyres.

My main concern (maybe it is because of my poor understanding) about the DD hub is the inability to freewheel. On each leg, I hit around 70km/hr max and at this speed I am definitely not pedaling. So going down a hill like this, what would happen with a DD hub? Would the bike slow down to a speed where I can pedal? (Sorry about the dumb question)

Again, thank you for the advice!

 

[dogman dan]

For a reliable commute,, DD hub motor will be the maximum durability. However,,, you aren't riding a cargo bike, towing a trailer, or weigh 350 pounds.

So you don't really need max durability. But you would prefer a hub motor IMO, for a grinding commute, lots of starts and stops. A mid drive will be pushed hard by such stop and go riding if you don't shift it down at the stops, this is a major cause of problems with mid drives that are loaded heavy, IMO.

The middle choice, and the one many feel is ideal for commuting is the 500w rated planetary gear hub motor. It's plenty reliable, but rides much nicer in the city than most mid drives or DD hub motors. Geared hub motors freewheel when not using the motor. So anytime you are on a slight downhill, have a tailwind, etc, you can coast normally, or pedal without the motor slowing you any at all. You will be packing more weight, so you might end up using the motor all the time. But it's still nice to coast to a red light.

The motor is rated 500w, but you get one with 48v battery, and with most kits that will be 1000w. You will need a 48v 20 ah size to reliably get to work at maximum speed in all weather year round. Most of the time though, the commute will use 15 ah. It will need more, and possibly you will need to slow down some when its very cold, or windy, or wost of all, both. I say all this from experience, my commute was 30 miles a day, which I did for 5 years.

So look for a rear geared hub motor kit from a reputable vendor. I work for a vendor that sells one, Grin has the Ezee, others sell the MAC.

Now to the other stuff. Forget the road bike. Why? Well for one thing, don't ruin your best bike with a motor. You are a fit cyclist, and will still want a regular bike in your stable. Just not for the commute. The issue with flats is one reason,, the other, a road bike will feel like shit when you strap on 25 pounds of motor and battery to it.

You need an MTB, hybrid, or hybrid ized mtb. Mostly for the more durable tire. If you want to travel above 22 mph or so, you will need a larger than normal front chain ring. 44 won't cut it. at least 48t, and if the frame can clear it,, get a 52 on it if you can. You will only use the very highest gears. Don't worry any about weight of the bike,, if you find a nice steel one that is 35 pounds, that's fine. The motor will equalize any amount of weight.

You will also need to do serious flat prevention. Thick tubes, lots of slime or stans, so you really can pull a nail, pump back up, and make it to work. At work, a second charger and a new tube. It sucks to change a tube on a motor wheel compared to a QR wheel, but it's not a deal breaker. Carry tools. Put panniers on the bike so you can carry groceries or whatever home easy, one pannier will be half full just with the coat you wore in the am anyway, plus the tools, pump, etc.

Cover the bike while you park at work, if it is going to rain.

 

[minvec]

Thank you so much for the advice. Lots of good stuff here.

So I have settled on a cheapish hybrid bike with a direct drive rear wheel from dillenger. I'll post how things go when I put it together.

 

[chas58]

Thank you so much for the advice. Lots of good stuff here.

So I have settled on a cheapish hybrid bike with a direct drive rear wheel from dillenger. I'll post how things go when I put it together.

For hub motors – get a geared motor (not a direct drive hub motor)

Direct drive is big, heavy, ugly, and can’t easily be ridden without power (it has drag when freewheeling). A geared hub motor is smaller, better looking! And has more torque. DD is great if you want to get really high power.

Rear punctures: If it is a problem, get something like a Schwalbe Marathon. But anything smaller than 28mm is pretty darn small unless your roads are perfect.

Personally, I would get something like cyclocross or gravel bike, that can take 35mm tires, if I liked drop bars. With flat bars, you can choose just about anything. I kind of think something like an inexpensive TREK 7.3 hybrid bike would work great.

Dogman is right about strapping on 25lb to a road bike. I hated it. However, I got my weight down to +10lbs, and the road bike feels like a normal bike now (at 29lbs). I love it!!! The extra 25% range is a nice bonus too.
FYI, I use 44t x 14t to pedal at 100rpm at 25mph.

 

[Wolfeman]

All this advice sounds good, but.... You may end up liking the twisting of the throttle thing so much that you wish you'd bought bigger. If you can, test ride some bikes before you buy. I tried some pedal assist bikes and was impressed. I tried a mid-drive recumbent with a throttle and was really impressed. I ended up buying a 52V DD hub motor set-up and have been nothing but happy with it. It's torquey, fast, and really really fun. I don't pedal much, but man do I have a good time. I look forward to my commute every day. Just my 2 cents, good luck with your purchase.