Recommendations Please!!!

[kent1956]

Ok, I'm ready to start...what system do you all recommend?

I have an EZ-1 Recumbent, with 16" front wheel. I live in SW Florida and need a system that will handle rides in the pouring rains we get.

Trying to decide between hub motor and chain motor systems....

Any suggestions?

 

[Patriot]

In Florida, you won't see too many hills.

So, to answer your question, I've always been partial to this guys setup. He has a recumbent with a Crystalyte 5303 installed in the rear at 72v. Just use some silicon to seal the wires going into the hub.

Sweet!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avrnJLxYbyw

 

[theyerb]

I'm pretty new at this stuff myself , but from my knowledge, hub motors are generally less expensive and more efficient than the chain and motor setup. Using the motor and chain on the recumbent requires a tight fit, whereas the hub frees up room behind the rider to pack in batteries. I'd say a 48v hub motor setup would be ideal. Good luck!

 

[morph999]

I just ordered a 5303 hub motor with 24 -72v immediate start controller from http://ebikes.ca. They'll put a hub motor in any size rim that you ask. Mine is currently on the way. Great thing about the controller that ebikes.ca sells is that you can use any voltage from 24 - 72 volts. Some controllers limit you to a certain voltage.

The total for everything was about $780.

I got this
5303 hub motor in a 26" rim = $435
24-72v immediate controller = $205
throttle = $15
hub work to install it = $40 (that's only if you get one specially installed like I did)
torque arm = $20

The 5303 is one of the fastest hub motors but also uses lots of power. If you want a smaller motor that still goes 30 mph, maybe you could get a crystalyte 406. Or even a nine-continent 2806.

If you want speed I'd look at these hub motors
5303 crystalyte
406 crysatlyte
2806 nine continent

if you want torque maybe these
5305 crystalyte
408 crysatlyte
ezee geared hub

 

[dogman dan]

It helps some to know what your needs, and expectations are a bit more before recomending stuff. How fast, how far, how much you weigh, or will be hauling, and I think we can guess on hill climbing requirements.

In general, for most peoples weight, and going around 20 mph, the mid sized direct drive motor kits work well, at 36v or 48v for closer to 25 mph. So that is Christalyte 406, Wilderness Energy (aotema), 9 continents. High tech bikes is now offering a darn good package deal on the aotema and a lifepo4 battery. I am definitely biased toward aotema and lifepo4 since that has served me well for the last year, and I haven't tried the others. I have a review thread going on the high tech bikes aotema motor in that section.

A dialog with Ebikes-ca people is a good way to start. One of their kits, the ezee, comes with a very well waterproofed controller. In general the hubs can be waterproofed pretty well, batteries can be put it boxes that ventilate while still keeping the sparky stuff dry. But I don't know of any truly waterproof throttles. There are ways, though, and ebikes-ca knows them, since they live in the wet place too.

 

[Drunkskunk]

a 530X in most bikes is about like dropping a V8 in a Geo Metro. Fun, but overkill.

there aren't many truly waterproof motors out there yet, but they are coming online with more resistant ones, like the newer generation of Crystalytes and the Nine Cont. motors.

As for what to recommend, that's hard to do without knowing a little more about what you want.

Do you:...
-Want immediate start, or something that you have to pedal first before you can use the motor?
-Rocket like acceleration, or something closer to a bicycle?
-Silent operation, or is some motor noise acceptable?
--How about if the best choice also sounded like a drill on steroids?
-Care more about weight, or range?
-Stealth? As in, is it ok if it looks like a kid's science project, or would you prefer no one can tell?
-Do you have a preference for where you carry the weight on the bike?
-What range are you looking for?
-What speed will you be cruising at most?
-Whats your budget?
-Whats your skill level at turning wrenches and splicing wires?

 

[kent1956]

Lots of good advise so far, thanks all...Let me answer Drunkskunk here so you all have a better idea what my needs are.

a 530X in most bikes is about like dropping a V8 in a Geo Metro. Fun, but overkill.

there aren't many truly waterproof motors out there yet, but they are coming online with more resistant ones, like the newer generation of Crystalytes and the Nine Cont. motors.

As for what to recommend, that's hard to do without knowing a little more about what you want.

Do you:...
-Want immediate start, or something that you have to pedal first before you can use the motor?

Me: Pedal assist is fine for me. I like the idea of getting some exercise on my commutes and still not be sweating like a hog when I get to work or school.

-Rocket like acceleration, or something closer to a bicycle?

Me: bicycle type, I'm not looking to race, just commute.

-Silent operation, or is some motor noise acceptable?

Me: Not a concern to me, silent or some noise, whatever.

--How about if the best choice also sounded like a drill on steroids?

Me: I have worked construction, but this might be too noisy for me.

-Care more about weight, or range?

Me: both are a concern for me. I consider that I will have to pedal the added weight if the system fails on me while traveling. Looking for about a 10 - 15 mile range. I can recharge while at work.

-Stealth? As in, is it ok if it looks like a kid's science project, or would you prefer no one can tell?

Me: Test tubes? Tesla coils? Spark gaps...sounds cool to me.

-Do you have a preference for where you carry the weight on the bike?

Me: My EZ-1 is a long wheel base bike, I should be able to put the weight anywhere.

-What range are you looking for? Me: 10-15 miles

-What speed will you be cruising at most?

Me: Law allows up to 20 mph without licensing.

-Whats your budget?

Me: Depends on the system. I hope to start in the $500 range with sla batteries and upgrade to lipofe later

-Whats your skill level at turning wrenches and splicing wires?

Me: Highlty skilled elelctrician and mechanic...give me the parts and I can make it work.

 

[dogman dan]

Since you need a 16 " wheel, and want to go 20 mph, the choices narrow down a lot in my opinion.

Go to ebikes-ca and order a crystalyte 404 in a 16" rim. Front or rear, is the choices.

20 amp controller, and for speeds to 20 mph, the 48v max one should be ok. throttle and some wiring stuff, like anderson connectors too.

Unfortunatley the $500 dollar budget will have to get a bit bigger, but it should be enough for the motor and electronics.

I find at full throttle, which for me at 36v is 22-23 mph, I get just about 1 mile out of 3/4 of an amp hour of lifepo4 battery.
With sla batteries, a 12 ah will deliver about 8 ah, so even pedaling a lot, unless you ride really slow, 10 miles is about it for lead.

So the battery is a dilemma, On a bad day, wind in your face all the way home, you will need more than 15 ah to get home, so the best course may be for you to buy 20 ah of 36v lifepo4. Pingbattery.com and Hightekbikes.com have the current good prices. Many others exist, of the even cheaper ebay sources, cammycc has a good reputation. Others are sharks that change selling names regularly. A good lifepo4 is around $600 plus shipping in a 20 ah 36v size.

One option that works is paralelling a sla pack with a lifepo4 pack. They can charge on the same charger and reports from reputable people say it works well, so you could buy 3 good sla batteries to start with, and then add a 10 ah lifepo4 later when you have the cash. And later still, add another lifepo4 later when the sla's wear out or cash is there. Since lifepo4 is so light and nice, your best option may be to just bite the bullet and get a 20 ah lifepo4. But starting out with lead is not so bad, since you get to do the learning curve with a more forgiving power supply, and see what speed you get at 36v in the real world on your bike.

 

[Drunkskunk]

a 404 as dogman sugests would work in the front wheel, but I would suggest running a 405 or 406 in that 20" rear wheel. That should give you a peak speed and efficancy at around 17 to 22mph. 48 volts would give you more speed later if you wanted it, and it would have good torque for helping up hills. the 405 in the rear would take you a little over 20mph at 36 volts, but with less climbing torque. If you get your controller through Ebikes.ca, you can get the option to get a direct plugin Cycle Analyst, which has the option of a programmable speed limiter, meaning you can make a faster motor legal. the 405 is avalable off the shelf in a 20" rim, the 406, you would need to lace it in a rim your self, or get someone to do it. But the 406 would be a little more efficent for cruising under 20mph, were the 405 wouldn't reach it's peak efficancy untill just over 20.

Rear wheel drive has some advantages in terms of traction and handling, and since the EZ-1 has most of your weight over the rear wheel already, having your traction motor in the rear makes more sense.

I would suggest the immediate start controller. you'll find it fun to be able to pull away from a dead stop, and you'll still be able to pedal along with the motor, letting it supplement your effort as much or as little as you want with the throttle. And in the case of a broken chain, pedal, sprocket, ect, you can still drive home. (Its happen to me once or twice)

As for the battery, to be able to have 15 miles reliable range, you need a minimum of 36V, 10Ah of Lithium, or around 36v, 18AH of SLA due to the peukert effect effecting SLA. the cost of the systems would be close, and the Lithium batteries would be extremely lighter, smaller, and Far more resilient, lasting years, not seasons.

Cost of the motor, controller, Cycle analyst, throttle, and shipping would be around $550. figure $350 or so for the LiFePO4 battery shipped. There might be ways to build a motor setup under $500, but nothing I would recommend.

 

[JinbaIttai]

Lots of good advise so far, thanks all...Let me answer Drunkskunk here so you all have a better idea what my needs are.

Do you:...
-Want immediate start, or something that you have to pedal first before you can use the motor?

Me: Pedal assist is fine for me. I like the idea of getting some exercise on my commutes and still not be sweating like a hog when I get to work or school.

Pedal first and pedal assist are not the same. Between pedal start and immediate start, I also recommend immediate start.

I appreciate it most when I am stopped at a red light and I'm not staring at the light, with my feet on the ground when it turns green. With a pedal first I'd have to shift my weight balance, stand on one of the pedals, get it going, and then apply power.

With immediate start, my first move will be to stab the throttle with my thumb. Then, while I'm accelerating through the intersection, I'll shift my weight and get into a position to start pedaling. It saves a few precious seconds at a busy intersection.

 

[dogman dan]

I know squat about recumbents, but yeah, driving one with the front wheel would be less desirable than putting the drive wheel where there is some weight. I find front drive works fine on mt bikes and beach cruisers, but on a long recumbent, it might be a dog. If the rear wheel is bigger, then the choices grow too. And since ya'all are waiting for it,,, buy as big a battery as you can. Heh heh. A recumbent will get better performance with less drag than my sit up straight with a coat flapping style, but having more range is good. The battery budget is a dilemma, but for a long ride, you will simply have to go very slow or spend very much.

 

[Gordon]

Hi Kent

I used to have a Sun EZ 1 bike. It was only human powered. I remember how difficult it was to pedal into any headwind or on a hill. It was a very difficult bike to control at low speeds. Once up to speed it was a joy to ride.
It was also quite a heavy bike with all that square tubing.

If I were going to add power to am EZ 1 I would want a lot of low end torque more than speed.

 

[kent1956]

Thanks all for the good advice, I really appreciate this forum. Everyone is very helpful.

Last Saturday I made my first E-bike purchase. A Pantera 750 Fusion scooter. It has 4- 12V 18 Ah batteries wired for 48V. I have rode it all week to and from work, recharging at work and home. Seems to handle well, with a top speed of 28 MPH, less as the batteries discharge. I only have one bridge and overpass to travel, the rest is pretty flat ground...I am in SW Florida, no hills but what man has made here.

Strong head wind yesterday, dropped my speed maybe 1 mph, but still had plenty of charge to make it home.

I still want to electrify my recumbent, but this gives me real experience on an E-bike to build with.

I am in communication with Ping about a LiFePo4 battery bank for it now. I'd like to up the AH to as much as possible, within my limited battery box. I am open to the idea of rebuilding my shell in fiberglass to get a larger battery box and more AH. I will see and let you all know.

thanks again.

 

[morph999]

Kent,

Do you have to register that at the BMV? Do you need a license plate for that Panterra Fusion ?

 

[kent1956]

Kent,

Do you have to register that at the BMV? Do you need a license plate for that Panterra Fusion ?

Sorry Morph for taking so long to answer you. Yes, the scooter has to be registered with the DMV here in Florida. They require a tag on all mopeds and small scooters. No insurance or helmet required. No special motorcycle rider attached to your license either.

 

[ecowheelz]

For your reference, here's an install we did on an EZ-1 recumbent:

http://www.eco-wheelz.com/forum/topic.php?id=1688

Pretty basic install with a Crystalyte front hub motor and SLA batteries, but it's a good example of what you can do with that model...