Replacing Broken ORO Throttle Cyclone with Kelly KBS48101L Controller

[Piorun]

Hi guys,
I have an older kit, Cyclone 1680w with a KBS48101L controller.

with a OBO twist throttle.
Recently the throttle no longer works and I cannot find a replacement with the same wiring. The controller gives me a Red LED and turns off with the old throttle wired up. Clearing an OK on the controller. :thumb:

This is what was coming from the old throttle.
It has a 3 pin and a two pin connector.
Which the 3pin is coming out of the controller.
The two pin. The battery + and - leads into a two pin connector on the Battery side. A third cable comes out of that connector which is one cable of the 2-pin. (Let me know if anything is unclear.) The second cable of the Two pin then leads into the Female connector on the controller side which then leads the the motor. I imagine this is simply the Switch 15?. But I am unsure I will wire it right.

I was hoping I could get some clarification on the wiring layout. I have referenced the kelly controllers wiring schematic diagram but there is some things unclear when replacing the throttle.
I will attach some images to help explain what the wiring situation looks like.
Regarding the two pin connector it looks like it is the Micro Switch (15) ?

However, Now the three pin connector doesn't look like it matches with the three pin on the new throttle I purchased.
https://tinyurl.com/yc7n8yhh -- New throttle (Reference the two power cables without pin connector) Will this be in place of the two pin I currently have?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21232 -- Old Oro throttle
https://kellycontroller.com.ua/download/KBS-L/KellyKBS-LUserManual.pdf -- Kelly wiring.

On the three pin I have cables 19, 3 and 4.

The new throttle along with the three pin ( With masking Tape, has two power lines if you look at the tiny url amazon link. One with a switch and one without ) Would the Switch be the main from battery (Light blue on Schematic) then the other power power return into the controller? The way the ORO wired does not match at all to this new throttle. I saw a three pin on amazon and assumed it'd be a snap.

The two pin I am unsure I don't see number labels. Here is where I need help. I imagine with the new throttle it would be a switch first then power return? Can any one offer any assistance? I don't want to short anything out. I think one of the cables from the battery to the Controller would be 7 also a part of that two pin connector.. There is a risk I could short the battery's BMS if I don't know what I'm doing.

I am thinking just cutting out the Two pin. Wiring the switch first from battery then power return (see the new throttle). (the old ORO has a green wire in parallel on the two pin which I imagine is the switch referencing an Older post) Now I have two cables. So I think the yellow from new throttle from the Battery connector then the Blue towards the controller? The old had 3 cables into the two pin.

Then splicing the three pin into the appropriate cables. Which don't appear to match the old three pin in pin order.
But I imagine I take the 5v+ on throttle and wire it to 4 on Controller. The Negative to the RTN 19. And 'Signal to 3' which is throttle on the Controller schematic. Can anyone confirm?


Is there any drop in replacement for the ORO? So I don't need to splice wires? Any grey beards with some experience able to help a newb out would be appreciated.

 

[amberwolf]

I have an older kit, Cyclone 1680w with a KBS48101L controller.

with a OBO twist throttle.
Recently the throttle no longer works and I cannot find a replacement with the same wiring. The controller gives me a Red LED and turns off with the old throttle wired up. Clearing an OK on the controller. :thumb:

Is the red LED on the controller, or on the throttle? If it's on the controller, does it have a blink code / pattern? If it's on the throttle, is it just a single LED or is it part of a battery meter with red, yellow, green?

What does "Clearing an OK on the controller" mean?

By "throttle no longer works", what specifically do you mean? Do you mean the system no longer responds to throttle (no longer operates the motor, etc)?

Kelly controllers usually have setup software that can read the throttle values in a certain mode or screen, so you may be able to verify that the controller is properly reading the throttle.

But you can also verify the throttle outputs the correct voltage over it's movement range with a multimeter. If it does, the throttle itself is fine, and does not need to be replaced. If it doesn't, there are possibly other things (broken wires, etc) that can be fixed without replacing the throttle. If it's a hall throttle (instead of a pot) they don't usually fail unless something mechanical (impact, etc) has happened to them, or they got wet inside (if there is battery voltage to it).

If it has a microswitch in it, this switch could have failed, and it could be wired in at least a couple of ways. If it's wired completely separately, then if it's connected to the kelly, it could be connected to the "footswitch" or "ignition" or other controller-enable wires. If the switch isn't working then the controller won't operate. Simply connecting the two wires together would then fix this if that's the case. If it's wired to cut power to the throttle when off, it'll be wired in series with the throttle power, and again, shorting it would just permanently enable the throttle. Same for if it's wired in series with the throttle signal itself.

If it's a slightly differnet kind of switch that is "on" when disengaged, it could be wired to the a disable-line of the controller, which is engaged by shorting the wires. In that case, disconnecting the switch from it would make things operate correctly.

The two pin. The battery + and - leads into a two pin connector on the Battery side. A third cable comes out of that connector which is one cable of the 2-pin. (Let me know if anything is unclear.) The second cable of the Two pin then leads into the Female connector on the controller side which then leads the the motor. I imagine this is simply the Switch 15?. But I am unsure I will wire it right.

Can you draw out exactly what wiring this is? I ask because it doens't sound like it would make sense for the battery + *and* - to feed to the throttle switch. It can't do anything with both of those. It *could* use the + to feed to the controller's "ignition" or keyswitch input, which enables the controller only when the siwtch is on. If that's the case, then as noted above, simply bypassing the switch in the throttle (shorting the wires to it) would enable the controller all the time. If that works, then simply adding a new switch separate from the throttle would give the same basic functionality.

If the throttle has a battery meter on it, as well as the switch, it would usually use the same ground wire for that and the throttle control. So if there are five total wires on the throttle three would be for the actual throttle (if it's hall type), one 5v in, one signal out, one ground in (battery negative). One would be for switch output, and one would be for battery positive input. In that event the most likely switch function would be to connect battery positive to the controller keyswitch / ignition wire.


I haven't covered any of the new throttle wiring issues because to wire it up you first have to know for sure what each wire does on the old one.

 

[Piorun]

The micro switch works. When I turn it on, the Red LED attached to the controller turns on briefly then off. Reading the Kelly controller spec sheet the red LED turns on and then off with no Error code if controller is working fine.

The Throttle input does not get a response from the motor. The inside of the throttle got wet and no longer lights up. The plastic cover over the lights was cracked, and it was raining a bit when I was ending a ride. I did have it glued but I am pretty sure the throttle was the weakest part when it comes to water resistance as the plastic light cover split in two pieces.

It sounds like the new throttle I have is indeed a Hall type.
It seems to be similar with the ORO. Just a mild inconvenience the new 3 pin connector doesn't match with what the ORO had.
The ORO had a micro switch that was wired in parallel. I'll draw something up. I'm not too sure exactly how it is wired, but the main plug from the battery. with two cables

Battery-----+&- | plug | -----Controller
Two Pin ----- | plug |
The situation is the two pin starts on the battery side of the plug.
I imagine this is where the switch cable will connect. Rather then in parallel like the ORO I just wire the switch then the power cable?

I am unsure how to wire up the switch. The two pin with 3cables on the ORO is indeed a switch.
The three pin connector I'll have to spice around but that is straight forward enough.

 

[Piorun]

Alright, Going to mark this as solved.
Had some free time.
Took the chain off and was prepared to unplug battery and throw it if it exploded.

Reading a bit more I changed the Green to wire to the white. I kept the two pin connector. Now I upgraded my bike basically I now have a voltage read out. The silver lining riding during a thunder storm. This kit has lasted me a long time and it keeps going :thumb:
Thanks for the help Amber.
I read in depth how the other throttle worked, (without schematics) But I wired it just like the ORO was and the new throttle worked without a hitch. Much relief If anyone else is replacing an ORO I can post exact details of what I did to help out with pictures. But now I need to go riding. It's been too long!