sk8norcal
1 MW
looky here, torqueboard is selling ESC
on sale!
http://diyelectricskateboard.com/product-category/skateboard-esc/
on sale!
http://diyelectricskateboard.com/product-category/skateboard-esc/
Reverse-engineering the Alien Power Systems ESCs
- Thread starter Reversers
- Start date
torqueboards
1 MW
Lol crack me up.
So what should we look at next?
Making an GPL v2 version of one of the following?
Holey Truck motor mount similar to Alien Drive for 3D print or CNC?
iCharger 208/4010?
Led control?
Cell balancing / voltage meters?
Or what else do you guys feel like opening up or for us to look into further? Any suggestions are welcome!
Making an GPL v2 version of one of the following?
Holey Truck motor mount similar to Alien Drive for 3D print or CNC?
iCharger 208/4010?
Led control?
Cell balancing / voltage meters?
Or what else do you guys feel like opening up or for us to look into further? Any suggestions are welcome!
Please don't copy the Richards Alien Drive work, he is just a person whom has been developing this by himself and not a big company. If we don't support him he won't have the money to continue developing new stuff! There is a tone of hard workmanship and love that goes in to his products and it would be a shame to see this copied!
As for the iCharger, maybe not do exactly a charger but maybe help the community design an entirely new charger that maybe can be integrated into our board for on-board charging for us commuters.
As for the iCharger, maybe not do exactly a charger but maybe help the community design an entirely new charger that maybe can be integrated into our board for on-board charging for us commuters.
zombiess
10 MW
In a race to the bottom, everyone eventually loses.
Thanks for your efforts!Reversers said:
We do need motor mounts, since they're no longer available in the US.
And a simple, cheap single-cell charger that can be ganged together to charge whole packs with no messy balancing would be great.
We also need wheel-mountable gear/pulleys.
Open source/open access is great stuff and what these forums are all about.
Providing the schematic for the ESC means that the various open ESC firmware packages can be easily recompiled for Bruno's hardware. And they can become more valuable to their owners. Accessible ESC firmware promises to make controllers much better suited to skateboard use. Making that information available could easily help Bruno sell more hardware.
Thanks again for your important efforts.
a light weight bms+charger combo would be great
doesn't even need to be a fast charger as most people charge overnight / for hours anyway
and you could always still use a more powerful charger if you need a fast charge
if it could communicate with a phone or an arduino that would be even better..... and I'd pay good money for that
I've got the alien 450amp esc... even if someone else offered the same thing cheaper, I'd still buy from him for his experience/product support
doesn't even need to be a fast charger as most people charge overnight / for hours anyway
and you could always still use a more powerful charger if you need a fast charge
if it could communicate with a phone or an arduino that would be even better..... and I'd pay good money for that
I've got the alien 450amp esc... even if someone else offered the same thing cheaper, I'd still buy from him for his experience/product support
Lebowski
10 MW
No wonder people don't choose engineering in school anymore
Instead of employing someone companies rather use an open source design, why design
something in-house when you can get a bunch of people on the internet to do it for
you for free. And this creative commons or whatever it's called, there is no real legal power
behind it. As a designer you still have to 1, find out a certain company used your stuff
illegally and 2, have to sue this company with money out of your own pocket.
And reverse engineering schematics and reading out the code from a chip, what more
can you do to encourage some Chinese company to copy the design, take money away
from the original designer and discourage him
No wonder no-one goes into engineering anymore.....
Instead of employing someone companies rather use an open source design, why design
something in-house when you can get a bunch of people on the internet to do it for
you for free. And this creative commons or whatever it's called, there is no real legal power
behind it. As a designer you still have to 1, find out a certain company used your stuff
illegally and 2, have to sue this company with money out of your own pocket.
And reverse engineering schematics and reading out the code from a chip, what more
can you do to encourage some Chinese company to copy the design, take money away
from the original designer and discourage him
No wonder no-one goes into engineering anymore.....
nieles
10 kW
Lebowski said:No wonder no-one goes into engineering anymore.....
actually, this year there are 40% more students enrolling for Electrical engineering compared to last year at my university.
there are around 70 first year students this year, so still not a lot :wink:
zombiess
10 MW
I'd love to have my BSEE, but I refuse to pay the ridiculous price for a degree and have no real ability to earn. Ever since I was a little kid I wanted to be an EE, but it turns out College just wasn't my thing, I got too impatient and quit... twice. If I had the attitude I do now I would have finished, but a lot changes between the late teen years and your mid 30's.
You've got it upside down.Lebowski said:No wonder people don't choose engineering in school anymore
Instead of employing someone companies rather use an open source design, why design
something in-house when you can get a bunch of people on the internet to do it for
you for free. And this creative commons or whatever it's called, there is no real legal power
behind it. As a designer you still have to 1, find out a certain company used your stuff
illegally and 2, have to sue this company with money out of your own pocket.
And reverse engineering schematics and reading out the code from a chip, what more
can you do to encourage some Chinese company to copy the design, take money away
from the original designer and discourage him
No wonder no-one goes into engineering anymore.....
Companies draw from existing work to start new projects every time.
Society gains from shared knowlegdge. That's why patents have a limited life and why 'obvious' works are not patentable.
The people that catalog designs openly propel society forward immensely. They do an enormously important service for all of us.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Lebowski said:No wonder people don't choose engineering in school anymore
Instead of employing someone companies rather use an open source design, why design
something in-house when you can get a bunch of people on the internet to do it for
you for free. And this creative commons or whatever it's called, there is no real legal power
behind it. As a designer you still have to 1, find out a certain company used your stuff
illegally and 2, have to sue this company with money out of your own pocket.
And reverse engineering schematics and reading out the code from a chip, what more
can you do to encourage some Chinese company to copy the design, take money away
from the original designer and discourage him
No wonder no-one goes into engineering anymore.....
For everything I've ever made, I feel honored when it's copied/cloned/etc. Arrangements of 1010101001's or groups of electrical components are all based on observing prior art. When you made your motor controller, you were free to borrow from decades of power-electronics-design know-how and code libraries, and leverage PCB and other manufacturing tech and materials and processes, and even BLDC motor operational concepts that were all figured out by other folks long ago, and you stood on countless shoulders of those before you to have your device enter reality.
Why should you not freely offer your own shoulder for others to build upon as you built your own while perched on the shoulders of thousands of other's work before you to create your own design.
torqueboards
1 MW
I highly agree. It's expected that something will eventually end up being copied but hopefully to improve upon your own design. It does suck in a way but it's inevitable. In the end it promotes both parties to remain competitive and innovate to stay on top. Which is what our capitalistic society is meant for.
Lebowski
10 MW
Not everybody agrees that a capitalistic society where individuals are forced to work their life
away for the benefit of a select few who, surprise surprise, sit in the sun and do nothing, is the
best form of society possible.
Next time you get caught for forging banknotes, try to see how the argument 'I did it for the advancement
of printing press technology' works out for you. Because that's what the Chinese companies copying
and selling Bruno's designs are doing.
Companies like TI, Microchip and International Rectifier are in the business of producing and
selling parts. Which only sell when you tell people how to use them, so this is why they publish
application notes telling customers how to program motor controllers and build power stages.
But the moment they come up with something original (like TI's InstaSpin FOC) it gets hidden away
by being programmed into non-accessible ROM and no mention of how it works can be found
in the Application Notes.
I admit, as a designer immitation is the highest form of flattery. But your boss who paid your
salary and wants to make some money feels differently. This is why he tries to protect his
investment with a patent. The patent system was set up with very good intentions, but has
evolved in a d!ck swinging contest where the bigger guy just continues court proceedings
upto a point where the other party just cannot (financially) afford to continue. Which is why
some parties don't apply for a worthless patent and keep quiet. Coca Cola for instance
has done quite well by keeping their recipe secret.... I personally hold a few US patents (granted
to the companies I worked for at the time) but since I found out even something as banal as
icons with a rounded corner (Apple, as apposed to square ones) get patented my pride in
having patents has gone down the drain.
away for the benefit of a select few who, surprise surprise, sit in the sun and do nothing, is the
best form of society possible.
Next time you get caught for forging banknotes, try to see how the argument 'I did it for the advancement
of printing press technology' works out for you. Because that's what the Chinese companies copying
and selling Bruno's designs are doing.
Companies like TI, Microchip and International Rectifier are in the business of producing and
selling parts. Which only sell when you tell people how to use them, so this is why they publish
application notes telling customers how to program motor controllers and build power stages.
But the moment they come up with something original (like TI's InstaSpin FOC) it gets hidden away
by being programmed into non-accessible ROM and no mention of how it works can be found
in the Application Notes.
I admit, as a designer immitation is the highest form of flattery. But your boss who paid your
salary and wants to make some money feels differently. This is why he tries to protect his
investment with a patent. The patent system was set up with very good intentions, but has
evolved in a d!ck swinging contest where the bigger guy just continues court proceedings
upto a point where the other party just cannot (financially) afford to continue. Which is why
some parties don't apply for a worthless patent and keep quiet. Coca Cola for instance
has done quite well by keeping their recipe secret.... I personally hold a few US patents (granted
to the companies I worked for at the time) but since I found out even something as banal as
icons with a rounded corner (Apple, as apposed to square ones) get patented my pride in
having patents has gone down the drain.
torqueboards
1 MW
Lebowski said:
What do you mean? Bruno doesn't make his own ESCs. He's buys it from them.
torqueboards said:
I don't know why your giving Bruno crap, your not doing any thing different then he is, your selling membership to your site for a how to guide of information you have taken from places all over the internet, so your what making money on time spent reading and copy and pasting, have you ever had a good chat with Carolyn from the company that Bruno gets his esc's from, she will tell you that he has spend a long time with them getting the esc's right for his car and boat setup and found a usage for it with ev so he personally asked them to make a dual setup and that's what they did, he spends his time helping them to improve the firmware to work better for smooth starts and braking, but he is putting a commission on his sales and his time just like you!
You buy the esc for under $100 you buy more then ten I would say so shipping is around $100 up depending on the exact quantity then you put your $70 mark up on it.
Just so every body knows if you you can buy 1 esc and get it shipped to you for less then $170,
You sell your motors for $70 they coast $30. and if they arnt then your getting ripped.
Bruno and I have spent thousands developing a new charging and battery management option for the lipo battery's so ppl can have the convenience of PLug and play charging,
Bruno has also spend a great deal of money producing sensored motor option that are in built into such small motors, you have mold fees and samples and then some thing does not work and you start again it isn't easy and cheap.your just buying what test the Chinese company had then started to sell to others but you haven't put in the that time and money you just do a alibaba search for what you want.
Next your going to sell your own mounts and wheel hubs,
Took me less then a day to design my own wheel hubs and mounts wasn't hard, but I would go and sell them coz Richard provided a product and service that wasn't available and came up with the idea to use the holey mounts and then you with no imagination go and Copy it. Come up with some thing original!
Maybe a Paris mount then ppl would have said cool a new option for us, because really we should all be trying to develop products with each other so then we can all have the option to add motors to our boards.
It's realy pathetic you saying your improving what some one els has done realy your just doing the same thing.
And please don't post 3d cad files of alien mount that realy isn't fear Richard doesn't make much money in it because he chooses to have it all made in the UK to support his local buisness I think we should take our hats off to him!
torqueboards
1 MW
Thanks for spending the time to write an essay for me. 
bee
100 W
All designs should be free, we shouldn't be allowed to lock down information, preventing others from improving it and potentially improving the world.
I make a living off my closed-source development, and I encourage anyone to copy, improve, and share. If innovation is to happen quickly, it should be my responsibility to keep up with the competition.
Those people who want to patent one great idea and reap the profits until retirement aren't innovators, they're lazy people looking to win the lottery.
I make a living off my closed-source development, and I encourage anyone to copy, improve, and share. If innovation is to happen quickly, it should be my responsibility to keep up with the competition.
Those people who want to patent one great idea and reap the profits until retirement aren't innovators, they're lazy people looking to win the lottery.
torqueboards
1 MW
Yes, I've ordered directly. They work and are good.
liveforphysics
100 TW
bee said:
+1
Amen to all of that.
Lebowski
10 MW
do you have any idea just how much work it would be to explain my FOC and sensorless magnet position detection ?
you're talking a powerpoint orgy taking dozens of hours, lots and lots of uninteresting work with no benefit in it for me ?
and not to forget answering the tons of questions that would undoubtedly come ?
you're talking a powerpoint orgy taking dozens of hours, lots and lots of uninteresting work with no benefit in it for me ?
and not to forget answering the tons of questions that would undoubtedly come ?
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