Revolt Rv-120 pro/ norco aline Video teaser

[boisrondevens]

I'm not the best tech guy when it came to analysing specifications.

Turnigy RotoMax 150cc Size Brushless Outrunner Motor
No load current: 51.8V/5.2A
Weight: 2530g
Watts: 9800w

Turnigy RotoMax 100cc Size Brushless Outrunner Motor
No load current: 44V/4.5A
Weight: 2074g
Watts: 7992w

Turnigy ca80-80
Non Load Current: 6.0A at 20V
Weight: 1545g

Turnigy ca120-70
Non Load Current: 13A @ 20v
Weight: 2730g

Rv-120
Non load current: 7a @ 72v
Weight: 4300g

 

[gwhy!1]

I'm not the best tech guy when it came to analysing specifications.

Turnigy RotoMax 150cc Size Brushless Outrunner Motor
No load current: 51.8V/5.2A
Weight: 2530g
Watts: 9800w

Turnigy RotoMax 100cc Size Brushless Outrunner Motor
No load current: 44V/4.5A
Weight: 2074g
Watts: 7992w

Turnigy ca80-80
Non Load Current: 6.0A at 20V
Weight: 1545g

Turnigy ca120-70
Non Load Current: 13A @ 20v
Weight: 2730g

Rv-120
Non load current: 7a @ 72v
Weight: 4300g

the 8080 spec is not correct
no load @ 48v is around 6-7A (stock )
4-5kw
with no skirt bearing it can come down to 5-6A
4-5kw

a rewind and terminated in wye 2.4A with no skirt bearing
6-7kw

 

[boisrondevens]

Thanks for the corrections.
I toke those numbers from hobbyking...
Your number make more sense

 

[sn0wchyld]

i like the idea of placing the motor on the swingarm, but due to the extension you have created a weak point on the upper arms.
further do you have enough space between wheel and motor in full deflected condition? the gap looks very small and unless im mistaken it becomes a bit smaller when the damper does deflect.

i agree,
and maybe you've seen someone else extending those dropouts but it looks like he kept the triangulation of the stingarm, when you made it a bit square at the end, that makes an angle in the end of the swingarm which is reducing the strengh.
i think you should add a bar like in the added picture, you can use the dropout screw to catch it from one side and a good steel band to catch it on the other side, that way its reverseable
View attachment 1

Alot of dirt-jumpers has something like this but inside the triangle, this wont do in your situation but its a sample of what it will affect
i won't risk a frame like that especially on those speeds

personally, i wouldn't touch it. It looks like the extension has increased the leaverage on that point by about 2:1... now this bike is built to be a heavy duty downhill bike - so depending on boris's riding style he may never come close to stressing that joint even with 2x the torque on it simply because the size of drops etc that he does pales in comparison to what a pro/hardcore DH rider would subject this bike to. If it could have previously taken a 6ft drop, then with these mods it means it should still take a 4ft drop or so...

Adding a strut where you suggest will also focus the force on the middle of a span - not really a great spot to have it. You'd be better off running it up to the top point where it attaches to the shock, if you were to add anything at all.

If this was a cheap XC bike however I'd agree with you re possible failures, but unless boris is intending to do regular '4ft' drops etc (note, im not sure what would constitute 'pushing the limits of the frame' on the original bike, so 4ft is just a wild guess) I think this frame will handle the extra forces just fine.

I'm not the best tech guy when it came to analysing specifications.

Turnigy RotoMax 150cc Size Brushless Outrunner Motor
No load current: 51.8V/5.2A
Weight: 2530g
Watts: 9800w

Turnigy RotoMax 100cc Size Brushless Outrunner Motor
No load current: 44V/4.5A
Weight: 2074g
Watts: 7992w

Turnigy ca80-80
Non Load Current: 6.0A at 20V
Weight: 1545g

Turnigy ca120-70
Non Load Current: 13A @ 20v
Weight: 2730g

Rv-120
Non load current: 7a @ 72v
Weight: 4300g

yea sadly this is what really makes me a bit weary of this motor... thats quite a high no load for what is a comparatively low rpm... and the increases aren't linear from 36-72, suggesting that its hitting the limit of its iron...
from revolt:
36V- 4.75A
48V- 5.3A
60V- 5.9A
72V-6.8A

this results in the dimentionless ratios (obtained by deviding the delta I by the delta V for each voltage step):

36-48 0.836842105
48-60 0.890566038
60-72 0.960451977

So the no-load power is increasing at a exponentially for a linear increase in voltage... where generally you'd expect a linear increase (ie, each of those 3 numbers would be roughly equal, as windage is usually pretty negligible).

the promising data i've seen is some guys in russia who've tested the same motor with a few different controllers... its hard to be sure given the language barriers and trying to see the power draw on some YT vids but it seems that a better controller (ie an adaptto) runs the motor far better - as much as 50% less power draw at no load, but I haven't confirmed the voltage he was running... you can see me asking here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIrGe2HO2dQ
if its only drawing 200w at about 70V then thats actually very promising, as it means its probably the controller more than the motor thats responsible for the high no-load power draw...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCPxDpGVt1Q
this too shows much lower no load power draw - though its hard to know if his CA is properly calibrated...

 

[boisrondevens]

thanks for the comment Snowchild.

The story is that I built this bike for my personal use only. I'm 6 feet weight 145lbs ( muscle only no fat lol lady's love my 8 pack)


The suspension it's ajust for my personal use. No jump for now. Next summer I'm putting a 24 rims trials style or dx32 in the back so those extention won't be needed. I have to say I kinda like the extension cause this bike is not wheelie prone...

 

[sn0wchyld]

thanks for the comment Snowchild.

The story is that I built this bike for my personal use only. I'm 6 feet weight 145lbs ( muscle only no fat lol lady's love my 8 pack)


The suspension it's ajust for my personal use. No jump for now. Next summer I'm putting a 24 rims trials style or dx32 in the back so those extention won't be needed. I have to say I kinda like the extension cause this bike is not wheelie prone...

ha ya lanky bastard. Im 6ft and the lightest ive ever been is about 190, and that's with a 6pack. Im about 215 now lol, working towards a keg.

 

[boisrondevens]

Hello

I know lots of you are asking for performance reviews for the rv-120. The reality is that I have nothing to give for now. The winter is not helping and it just doesn’t feel safe to push this motor enough with those conditions. So far I have reach a max speed of 80k/h. I could go faster but the batteries that I’m using are sagging too much. I blow a couple of controllers so far. Some from my own mistake and others I just don’t know what the “f” happened. Make no mistake the motor feel strong and responsive. I’m happy about it so far. I don’t think using sensor less controller work good for some reason. If you’re interested so get it with halls. I have changed the mounting plates for less vibration. From factory this is not the best balance motor. Nothing too surprising at that price tag. Il be posting some pics of the mounting brackets tomorrow.

 

[macribs]

Spring is coming - look forward to hear more from you when weather permit real testing.

 

[boisrondevens]

some update of the motor mount and drop out new extensions.

last pic: no load test at 80V

 

[sn0wchyld]

some update of the motor mount and drop out new extensions.

seriously impressive work given the tools used!! Though I'd strongly suggest getting some of those specialized bolts that go 'inside' each other for the dropouts - they're far, far stronger than relying on a bolt and nut.

 

[madin88]

maybe the controllers blow because of very low inductance. only a suspicion. high vibration doesn't speak for quality. is it now better with the new mounting?

 

[boisrondevens]

Though I'd strongly suggest getting some of those specialized bolts that go 'inside' each other for the dropouts - they're far, far stronger than relying on a bolt and nut.

thanks for the advice.
i had place the the order last week and just got them.

 

[boisrondevens]

ok I just got back from my friend place with the bike.
I'm using a 24 fets controller set for 60amps 20s. the bike pull the saddle under my ass everything I push throttle.
The power is insane , since I was not wearing a helmet I was kind of scared. without the extensions I'll be on my ass.
There 24 inc tire makes a big difference and the new motor mount fell strong so I'm not wearied about braking anything.

Ps: good news I'll be getting a new cnc machine next week.
with 2.2kw motor.
soon I'll be able to provide custom service at reasonable price or ES member only

 

[boisrondevens]

Hi windtrader,

revolt

Sent: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:20 pm
by windtrader
You are one of the few using this motor on ES. You seem quite happy with it. Are you selling these or just a consumer using the motor?

I'm considering the MXUS 3000, Midmonster, and now the Revolt for a mid frame mounted build.

What is your experience with the controller selection and configuration to get this motor to full potential?

What country are you located?

Thanks
Don

I have to say that after a lots of experience with different controller and battery setup that today is the first day I fell I'm spot on. 24 fets highly customize controller the motor spin like a dream.
just to let you know I burned couple controller mostly crystalyte since I'm a distributor: Ecyclotron.com
I have burned and changed the halls location for optimize timing. It was not easy since there is no information about the motor no where. The mid-drive is the way to go if you want to do more then just commute.
controller, motor and mount add about only 7kg to the frame. for me mid-drive is a no brainier.

ps: I tried to make a deal with Revolt to became a distributor not so far the profit margin is too low. But I'm confident that I'll be able to work something with Them soon.
I have not started a thread yet but I'm working on a mid-drive for less power but high efficiency. for that I'm gonna be using Max from Ebikedeal.com frame. The frame offer good battery capacity and versatility. You can use this frame for hub motor since the dropout have being custom made for hub motor application.
But also...
sneak pic.

 

[windtrader]

24 fets highly customize controller the motor spin like a dream.
just to let you know I burned couple controller mostly crystalyte

That sounds good for you now but a barrier for others. How does one get to where you are without burning controllers as well as plenty of time and frustration? A big goal of mine is to get it right the first time as much as is possible so I can buy the motor direct but the controller matching and tuning is an unfilled page in the build guide. Did you use the adaptto unit? What 24fet is used?

 

[macribs]

Though I'd strongly suggest getting some of those specialized bolts that go 'inside' each other for the dropouts - they're far, far stronger than relying on a bolt and nut.

Never seen this before, what do they do compared to a regular bolt, nut and washer? Do they handle more torque, are they less prone to unscrew do to vibrations then regular bolts/nuts?
And where would it be appropriate to use such special bolts?

 

[macribs]

ok I just got back from my friend place with the bike.
I'm using a 24 fets controller set for 60amps 20s. the bike pull the saddle under my ass everything I push throttle.
The power is insane , since I was not wearing a helmet I was kind of scared. without the extensions I'll be on my ass.
There 24 inc tire makes a big difference and the new motor mount fell strong so I'm not wearied about braking anything.

Ps: good news I'll be getting a new cnc machine next week.
with 2.2kw motor.
soon I'll be able to provide custom service at reasonable price or ES member only

Looking sweet - and that goes for the bike, motor mount and CNC machine as well
Have you noticed if the vibrations from the motor is gone now with your new motor mount?

 

[boisrondevens]

That sounds good for you now but a barrier for others. How does one get to where you are without burning controllers as well as plenty of time and frustration? A big goal of mine is to get it right the first time as much as is possible so I can buy the motor direct but the controller matching and tuning is an unfilled page in the build guide. Did you use the adaptto unit? What 24fet is used?

Last time the controller blew on me was 3 weeks ago and since I had remove the left side pedal drive, I had to walk a good 8km in snow and cold back home. so I know a little about frustration... I had in mind the adaptto from the start but without much information about the motor from the start. I can't see my self replacing burned $800 controller for the fun of it...
there is a long story about the controller tat I'm using now. I got 7 24fets from Zombiess some finish others bare. I got them for experimentation cause Zombiess couldn't get them to work properly. those are 24fets hand match 4115 fets
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54891

 

[boisrondevens]

Never seen this before, what do they do compared to a regular bolt, nut and washer? Do they handle more torque, are they less prone to unscrew do to vibrations then regular bolts/nuts?
And where would it be appropriate to use such special bolts?

those bolt came with the Norco aline drop out but I had to get 6 more for the extensions. they are hard to find since they are aren't standard.
mostly used for the chairing in a 10mm standard. My friend who was working for Specialize got them for me. it called double hex bolt. they are about 15mm I think from memory.

 

[boisrondevens]

I have not started a thread yet but I'm working on a mid-drive for less power but high efficiency. for that I'm gonna be using Max from Ebikedeal.com frame. The frame offer good battery capacity and versatility. You can use this frame for hub motor since the dropout have being custom made for hub motor application.
But also...
sneak pic.

 

[macribs]

I like the hidden motor placement. Nice.

Have you considered or looked into the possibilities of adding a rotating fan to the motor like on the Astro's from Matt?
Also one ES member used a leaf blower fan (at ebay for almost nothing) and it worked sweet.

 

[boisrondevens]

Thanks Macribs for the comments,
My long term goal is to develop my own motor and controller in couple mount. I want to provide a simple but a quality final product.
Now about the gray mind-drive
For this built I don’t need any fan attached to motor shaft for bb and pedals length reasons.
The battery box will self-cooled by an Arduino monitoring system. The motor, controller and the batteries will have an individual temp sensor and the speed of the fan will adjusted to the temperature of each components.
This gives me also a good opportunity to work with programming at a more complex level.
This project will take some time but hopefully also gives ideas to other ES member so that we together can take the ebike community to the next level.
These are big word but money is not a problem so if I want something I don’t need any Kickstarter financing…
If you think you have a good idea and would like to share, you are welcome.
Over the last couple of years I have seen and learn so mush by all of you ES members but I can’t understand why we don’t develop our own final projects instead of modifying, upgrading existing components.

BTW I'm french so excuse me in for spelling...

 

[macribs]

Did I understand you correct if you said you will make your own motor and controller? I got to say I look forward to see what you come up with.
So far in e-biking as you said it has all been about taking existing products and make them work for e-bikes. Developing new products solely for e-bikes could bring a lot of benefits.

Your revolt build took me by surprise as I was not aware of any rc motors that could run without reduction jackshaft. And also it is well build and well thought through. I hope you can find a truly great controller for your bike so you can take it to the limits.


Yes you are right this forum is great with a lot of gifted people rising the bar for builds to come. And the more time one spend on this forum the more amazing builds pops up. The back log of must read threads are growing by the days.

 

[sn0wchyld]

ok I just got back from my friend place with the bike.
I'm using a 24 fets controller set for 60amps 20s. the bike pull the saddle under my ass everything I push throttle.
The power is insane , since I was not wearing a helmet I was kind of scared. without the extensions I'll be on my ass.
There 24 inc tire makes a big difference and the new motor mount fell strong so I'm not wearied about braking anything.

Ps: good news I'll be getting a new cnc machine next week.
with 2.2kw motor.
soon I'll be able to provide custom service at reasonable price or ES member only

goddamn mate... you and i seem to think the same on allot of things... this is currently in my living room...

And i've just upgraded to a 2.2kw spindle and in the process of upgrading to supported rails on all axis's...
love your work on the bike. I gotta find myself some more free time so i can keep up and get some builds done!! uni's taking up too much of my time lol.

where are you getting yours from? looks like a nice unit.

Never seen this before, what do they do compared to a regular bolt, nut and washer? Do they handle more torque, are they less prone to unscrew do to vibrations then regular bolts/nuts?
And where would it be appropriate to use such special bolts?

those bolt came with the Norco aline drop out but I had to get 6 more for the extensions. they are hard to find since they are aren't standard.
mostly used for the chairing in a 10mm standard. My friend who was working for Specialize got them for me. it called double hex bolt. they are about 15mm I think from memory.

I buy mine from my local bike store or chanreactioncycles.com... readily available from both! they're really common for mounting chainrings too, far more reliable than normal bolts.

 

[sn0wchyld]

hey mate, how much have you extended the wheelbase by with these dropout extenders?