Rewinding H3540

[Miles]

On is HT because of the way it is wound.

I'm all ears...

For same number volts and battery amps provided to the motor, it will produce more torque. Look at the simulator for the torque the H3525 produces at start up and then the start up torque of the H3540. The H3525 will provide more oompf .

If you cap the current, sure, but you wrote:

If you had trouble overheating the motor when you had it with the speed wind, just wait until it is wound more for torque, then it'll have to be worked like a mule to overheat.

which implies that it's possible to generate more torque for a given amount of heat by varying the number of winding turns. That's not possible. You can have as a many turns as you like but the heat generated for a given torque will be the same.

 

[Trackman417]

If you had trouble overheating the motor when you had it with the speed wind, just wait until it is wound more for torque, then it'll have to be worked like a mule to overheat.

which implies that it's possible to generate more torque for a given amount of heat by varying the number of winding turns. That's not possible. You can have as a many turns as you like but the heat generated for a given torque will be the same.

....... That's what I meant :lol: .
As you can see, clearly, Im a hub novice :lol: .
Thanks for schooling me, your the best, Miles .
Well, I am going to start the winding either tonight or sometime tomorrow, wish me luck! 8)

 

[Miles]

Think through what happens when you double the number of turns in order to create a so called "high torque" motor.

The velocity constant is halved and the torque constant is doubled, so you get twice as much torque per amp

But, the phase wires are twice as long and, in order to fit in the slots, the cross-sectional area of each turn is halved. So, the resistance goes up by a factor of 4

Good luck with the wind!

 

[Trackman417]

Think through what happens when you double the number of turns in order to create a so called "high torque" motor.

The velocity constant is halved and the torque constant is doubled, so you get twice as much torque per amp

But, the phase wires are twice as long and, in order to fit in the slots, the cross-sectional area of each turn is halved. So, the resistance goes up by a factor of 4

Good luck with the wind!

Very very very true mate.
Thanks again, I'll keep winding for you, miles! :lol:

 

[GCinDC]

i'm curious, how wide is the stator? is it the same width everywhere? if it's gotten wider than 35mm, i wonder if you should squeeze it w/ vice or something... or vice grips before you get the first turns on, which will presumably hold it together better... i've no idea. just wondering...

i hate to think of you getting it all wound up and finding the sidecovers rub...

 

[Trackman417]

i'm curious, how wide is the stator? is it the same width everywhere? if it's gotten wider than 35mm, i wonder if you should squeeze it w/ vice or something... or vice grips before you get the first turns on, which will presumably hold it together better... i've no idea. just wondering...

i hate to think of you getting it all wound up and finding the sidecovers rub...

I'll check to see how wide everything is. I think the wire will do a good job at keeping the stator together... I HOPE. But I guess it doesn't hurt to use some super glue to keep them together while winding. I'll do one or two teeth and measure the width after that. Thanks for the suggestion now and not after I'm ready to stuff the motor into the magnet can. What a guy

 

[Trackman417]

So, I tried winding the stator today, but failed miserably at it . Looks like I am not as good at filling the copper in between the teeth as I thought :lol: . So the number of turns I was looking for was 6, in between the 3525 and the 3540. I was thinking, instead of winding all 10 paralleled strands at once, why not do one, two, or three parallel strands at a time. Then just fill the stator up with the paralleled strands until it becomes too physically hard to continue. Any comments or suggestions as to if it will work?

 

[oldhaq]

mate! WTFFF are you doing!
Sounds like your trying to make this job 3x harder for yourself.
doing a few strands at a time is not the go...I'm pretty sure anyway, never tried it, can't see how it'd make anything easier at all
did you read this reply I sent you before from my build thread?

I'm going to start winding this weekend.... Hopefully. I have two spools of copper wire. And I want 10 strands of the stuff. Do you recommend wrapping wire around two poles 5 times cutting it at bother ends and winding all the wires together?
If you don't understand what I just said.... How did you set up your wire for winding? Lol

I put 2 sticks in the ground 15.5 metres apart, and made 4 loops to give me 8 lengths. you only need to cut after the final loop - just twist all together at the corner at stick. So I had effectively a 15.5 metre multistranded wire with 8 strands in it. I then just wound this 15.5m long wire onto a large upside down bucket to keep it neat.

Sounds like you were on track to this point, but then you've gone and split the strands up again?
I think KISS applies here
mate...just go the 10 strands together, you'll be done in no time

 

[Trackman417]

mate! WTFFF are you doing!
Sounds like your trying to make this job 3x harder for yourself.
doing a few strands at a time is not the go...I'm pretty sure anyway, never tried it, can't see how it'd make anything easier at all
did you read this reply I sent you before from my build thread?

I'm going to start winding this weekend.... Hopefully. I have two spools of copper wire. And I want 10 strands of the stuff. Do you recommend wrapping wire around two poles 5 times cutting it at bother ends and winding all the wires together?
If you don't understand what I just said.... How did you set up your wire for winding? Lol

I put 2 sticks in the ground 15.5 metres apart, and made 4 loops to give me 8 lengths. you only need to cut after the final loop - just twist all together at the corner at stick. So I had effectively a 15.5 metre multistranded wire with 8 strands in it. I then just wound this 15.5m long wire onto a large upside down bucket to keep it neat.

Sounds like you were on track to this point, but then you've gone and split the strands up again?
I think KISS applies here
mate...just go the 10 strands together, you'll be done in no time

I already made that giant multi strand of 10 pieces of wire. Winding the motor one strand at a time would be a lot easier then the setup I had going with the ten pieces of wire. Especially when I though I lost count over the number turns I put around each tooth. I would have to correct 1 pieces of wire instead of 10 pieces of wire. My thought process is, I'm not going to push any more than 60 battery amps maximum through this motor, so If I have 9 parallel strands vs 10 it doesn't really make a difference to me.
But idk, I already tried the method you used and if my new and, hopefully, improved method works the way I think it will, the motor will be wound in a day 8) :wink:

 

[GCinDC]

sounds like good fun. don't forget to take a couple pics along the way.

patience. perseverance.... 8)

 

[hydro-one]

Cool! I will have to do this soon. Do be extra careful with clearance on the side covers, , i would use clay or something to check it during assembly. I have had issues with side covers rubbing on these motors since day one, hall sensors rubbing and shorting out. And after three axle breaks, numerous hall failures, finally cuminating last week in an epic stator rub that destroyed the windings.

If you want i can send you mine next

 

[Sancho's Horse]

I don't have the thread, but it is definitely worth finding that video of the tour of the chinese factory with the woman winding the motor. She probably winds motors in her sleep.

 

[GCinDC]

hmm, this one?
[youtube]7Y7hg3i-O2k[/youtube]

 

[Sancho's Horse]

That's the one. That girl totally owns the speed.

 

[Trackman417]

sounds like good fun. don't forget to take a couple pics along the way.

patience. perseverance.... 8)

Yeah tons of fun :lol: .
My back is aching and I'm 19! This has got to be one of the best ways to shorten someones lifespan.
Well I got the first parallel strand in... sort of. Guess I need to make the phase a tad longer. I have half a tooth left and dont have that 1.5 inches of wire . I need to buy more nomex paper, because the way I set up the first set was wrong. The wire is going to be bought next. Idk if I should chuck the project now, or when it's finished
Here are the pics... Obviuously :wink:

Well there you have it!

Cool! I will have to do this soon. Do be extra careful with clearance on the side covers, , i would use clay or something to check it during assembly. I have had issues with side covers rubbing on these motors since day one, hall sensors rubbing and shorting out. And after three axle breaks, numerous hall failures, finally cuminating last week in an epic stator rub that destroyed the windings.

If you want i can send you mine next

Sounds like you had bad luck with these motors mate . I liked my H-series hub, it served me very well, and hopefully will continue to do so.
Sure I wouldn't mind winding it for you, if you don't feel like it. I sort of like this and like everything I do, I bet I will get the hang of it right before I'm finished.

 

[Trackman417]

Well 3 of ten phases done! Takes around 30 minutes for each wire 8) . Going to find a way to make a video of this so you guys can see if I am doing it right...
I keep coming up short with the wires.
I always need around 5 turns until I can actually finish the cable. Anybody know what I should do? Solder, crimp? Another question is where should I crimp? Do I bring the phase cable back to where the cable jumps over to the next set of teeth?

Well any suggestions :lol: .
I ran out of my own perseverance and I need you guys to help

 

[Thud]

bumpity bump,
I bought this project off of trackman (mostly just to own something documented in a epic GCinDC video :lol
was thinking these were bigger for some reason....I guess a 5303 is a horse of a different color.

I will prolly wind it as a 3540 with 5 turns....my question is:

Are these normaly terminated in Delta or Wye?

Thanks in advance......I'll post my progress & set up when I get to this later this winter.



this thing will go 50mph & have 75miles of range!
(thats a Joke for Amberwolf!)

 

[oldhaq]

Hey thudster, theyre Wye, but why not go the full hog and wind it 4 turn and/or terminate it in delta, just because you can. You wouldnt want many small hills or even large bumps in your way tho i spose. We dont want to see just another run of the mill HS come of this

 

[Thud]

hehe, you read my mind...
I was looking at a 3 turn config.....less is more & i have a hard time counting to five anyway

thx again.

 

[Farfle]

Find the max rpm you can get before losses kills things, and run it mid drive !

 

[Thud]

Alright,
seems to be a bit of conflict within these motors.....seems some were 35mm stators others(sensorless) were only 30mm

Luke had one wound as 10x6 with 25awg wire .45mm (& was called a HS3540)

luke says: My windings are 10 pieces of 25awg wire (15awg equalivelant), and wrapped 6 times around each tooth.

Justin & methods had other motors...9x7 12x5

Justin says:It also looks like Luke is suggesting it's a 10x6 wind that he's got, while the two units we received were 9x7 and 12x5

I can assume the 9x7=HT3525
& a 12x5= HS3540 ??
Edit:
alrighty then...I definatly have a 35mm stator
if wound 12x5 with .51mm wire it looks like this:
541grams of copper & 119mohm's resistance in wye
View attachment clyt35-24g 12x5.pdf

I have a spool of 20g on the bench, that'l give me 843g's of copper & 1/2 the R to 52mohm's
View attachment clyt35-20g 9x4.pdf

Ist motor Ive found that benifits from "more in hand" to make the copper weight & turn factor....can't get anywhere near the stock fill with 14 or 15g wire
thoughts?
(most likly a mid drive or maybe a 20"wheel....)

 

[pendragon8000]

Thread resurrection...
What happened with that 843g of copper rewind?

 

[Trackman417]

Yeah man. I think I would've wound the motor in the time it took you to get started .
Please keep us updated. The suspense is killing me.

 

[gdmr]

can anyone confirm if the numbers and phases i placed on the picture are correct?