runaway bike!

[RVD]

ok, i had a somewhat scary thing happen to me today.

i was leaving for work this morning and all was good but for some reason, right after leaving my driveway i wanted to go back home and make sure that my front door was locked. so i went back home and got off my bike. while my hands were still on the handlebars, the bike just accelerated at 100%!

luckily i was still holding the bars and out of instinct, i held tight so that the bike would go flying away. however, the rear wheel was moving and the bike is heavy so i couldn't just lift the whole thing up. i was basically moving the bike in circles with my hands on the bars so it was like i was standing there while the bike is going around doing wheelies.

at first i thought that maybe the throttle was stuck or something so i played that that but no go.

then i realized that i made another good move awhile ago (in case something like this happens?) by creating a little kill switch. it's a small red-red loop that i plug in to bring current from the battery to the controller. i found it and pulled it out and voila...stopped.

it was obviously a somewhat heart wrenching 10 seconds and probably looked kind of funny.

now time to troubleshoot...

i tried everything again by unplugging and re-plugging everything but when i put in my little kill switch loop thing, the same thing happened. this time i was lifting up the rear wheel so no drama but still.

this was with my e-bikekit direct drive rear hub motor wheel + lyen 9 fet controller.

i thought maybe it was a problem with the controller or motor (hall wires or whatever type of stuff like that) and luckily i had my crystalyte hs3540 nearby and lyen 12 fet controller (sensored) so i hooked all that up to my bike and...nothing. well, i had some issues with this setup before (i think maybe the halls are bad on the motor) so i had one more thing...my lyen 12 fet sensorless controller so i hooked that up.

and as soon as i put everything together...same thing! full throttle.

my only thought at this point is that the throttle is bad? somehow it got shorted or something so it's always registering full current?

any other thoughts?

 

[Ypedal]

Yep.. throttle..... been there. done that.

 

[RVD]

ok i guess it's fairly common?

is the throttle generally fried at this point or is it something that can be fixed by re-wiring?

 

[Hugues]

... it's a small red-red loop that i plug in to bring current from the battery to the controller. i found it and pulled it out and voila...stopped.
...

check the voltage on the throttle signal, should not be more than 0.8 V if i'm not mistaken, if it's more, you need to trace where it is coming from, maybe a short inside your throttle ? Has it been raining ? or defective hall inside the throttle...

when you have a minute, i would like to know more about your kill switch. It's been on my to-do list for a while...

thanks

 

[Tench]

If you have a CA fitted with your throttle output feeding the CA board then the CA will generate a full throttle signal to the controller in the absence of an imput from the throttle to the CA. Got a tyre mark half way up the workshop door frame from a similar experience!!

 

[Hugues]

.. Got a tyre mark half way up the workshop door frame from a similar experience!!

:lol:

 

[Rassy]

Yep, when it happened to me I had just parked the trike and got off when it went WOT. The parking brake on the front wheels was set, so it just dug a hole in the gravel.

I have a toggle switch on the small red wire that activates the controller, which was easy to flip.

My problem wasn't the actual throttle, but a short in the wires between the controller and throttle.

 

[NeilP]

Oh no..I have this all to come..and I have no Kill switch

 

[wesnewell]

I've had this happen when screwing with the wiring. Bike shot into the wall. Look for a short in the throttle wiring. It may be just that and not really the throttle.

 

[texaspyro]

Oh no..I have this all to come..and I have no Kill switch

So the bike is YOUR kill switch...

 

[Hugues]

didn't happen to me yet, but i will always remember bringing my bike to the local bike shop.
Forgot to switch it off, the vendor brings it inside to check the pressure on my front suspension,
forgot to tell him about the throttle, and then bang, the bike is bouncing around his shop like a wild horse !

it took him a good minute to tame the monster....no harm luckily, and now it's good fun to remember.

 

[NeilP]

Well I have the ignition switch within easy reach if I am on it and riding, but then again..the time it takes to take the hands of the handle bars at 45 mph and reach on to the crossbar, I would probably end up in the back of the car in front or similar.

Had it go off in the workshop while woking on it, but not in the wild yet

 

[Tench]

That bike now has a small switch fitted into the CA body switching the battery voltage feed to the CA off, this shuts down the whole system and is just about within reach of your left thumb.

 

[Hugues]

That bike now has a small switch fitted into the CA body switching the battery voltage feed to the CA off, this shuts down the whole system and is just about within reach of your left thumb.

are you sure shutting down the CA only and not the controller can prevent all type of problems like this ?

 

[RVD]

If you have a CA fitted with your throttle output feeding the CA board then the CA will generate a full throttle signal to the controller in the absence of an imput from the throttle to the CA. Got a tyre mark half way up the workshop door frame from a similar experience!!

what does this mean?

i do have a CA hooked up. does this mean that if my throttle is bad, the CA will send a full throttle signal to the controller? why does it do that?

i guess one way to test my system would be to disconnect the CA and see if the bike works?

 

[newb]

i thought i read that the halls in these throttles fail wide open, can anyone confirm this?

anyone every had this happen w/ a magura? since they have a potentiometer my limited understanding this won't happen, true?

 

[NeilP]

I cant tell you exactly..but I have read that in the CA manual..it depends on how you have the throttle setup with the CA...some setting scan give full power to the throttle ..but I seem to remember that it only happens when first turned on

 

[Hugues]

I cant tell you exactly..but I have read that in the CA manual.....

Manual here:
http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain/CA_Large_V223_Web.pdf

Page 19, section 9.3

 

[gwhy!1]

a dead short on the throttle should not be a problem as the infineon controllers shut down with any voltage above around 4.4v on the throttle input. I have found that the hall throttles can fail anywhere within there range due to loose/broken magnets this can also mean not being able to get max throttle output. A pot throttle can also fail wide open but less likely to be a problem as long as the faulty output voltage is above the controller cutoff ( but I dont know if all controllers have this safety margin of voltage input to the throttle ) .

 

[zombiess]

PM Lyen order one of these ASAP and wire it up for both power and ebrake if you want.

Red button, power on /off
Green button, momentary for ebrake or changing speed mode on latest EB3XX controllers that support 4 speeds
Switch, classic 3 speed switch for selecting speed, middle is off. I currently have mine wired up to select the power mode but will most likely be going to the 4 speed push button since I have another button on my throttle I'm going to use for my ebrake that's more comfortable and easier to reach.

I think they are around $25 shipped. I can post what all the wires do. Wiring is critical on these bikes and I always feared a run away throttle situation after reading several on here. I have this cluster on my one bike and on my other I have a loop of wire right by the seat I can grab and rip to kill power to the controller, it also has a micro switch on the rear brake that activates regen/cutout.

This is a major safety issue and everyone needs to address it if you haven't already. Just imagine sitting at a busy intersection and all of a sudden your bike goes WOT with you on it into cross traffic... not pretty.

Plan ahead, wire carefully!

 

[RVD]

btw, iirc if you have brake regen on and you apply the brake, the wheel will stop turning. so it's not 100% bad.

 

[tuxman]

brake inhibits will override a malfunctioning throttle too

 

[knoxie]

yep 5 dollar pit bike kill switch off ebay either wired to the brake input or run your throttle control through it, got them on every one of my bikes, cheap hall throttle magnets come unglued really easily, also seen them blow and go wide when folks use the throttle with battery status leds in and then over volt the controller, you simply must run a kill switch if you are using over 300W of power as you wont hold it on your brakes on most bikes.

Oh and never had a single problem with my maguras, my daily ride sits out in the rain all day when I am at work and has done for 4 years, not 1 problem with that throttle, they are awesome!

 

[RVD]

a few questions...

1) i rigged up a new throttle. i had a crystalyte one and i just changed the connectors so that it will fit the connectors on lyen's controller and it worked. when i say that it worked, it means that i tested the new throttle with the lyen 12 fet sensorless controller + crystalyte hs3540 and everything worked well. the problem went away. so the throttle probably was the culprit.

is it safe to now hook up the e-bikekit direct drive motor + lyen 9 fet controller (the original setup)? or is there a chance that the controller will fry the throttle and have the same problem come back again? i thought there was a comment like that in this thread.

2) why does this happen? does the throttle malfunction and register full throttle even though no throttle is given?

 

[RVD]

regarding my kill switch...

i don't have a real kill switch, it's just something that i jury rigged together. i'll take a picture sometime but essentially it looks like this:

i use anderson power poles.

i also use one of these: http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-power-distribution/ps-4-inline-4-way.html

lyen controller has 3 wires for power - red (ignition - thin wire) / red / black

battery has black/red going to Y splitter going to a precharge resistor and normal wire.

on the powerwerx thing:

on the controller side, i have red / black and a dangling regular red wire that i made myself (regular red wire with andersons on both ends - not the ignition red).

on the battery side, i plug in black, then red precharge resistor, then red, then pull out the precharge resistor.

so at this point everything is connected except for the red ignition wire.

red ignition wire and the dangling red wire andersons are connected side by side (but not plugged in).

if you are still with me, you will realize that connecting the red ignition wire and the dangling wire will complete that connection and i'll be in business.

but they aren't connected. instead the andersons are just attached side by side but not connected. in my pocket i have a small red wire U shaped with andersons on both ends. this is my "key" and "kill switch". if i connect this in, then everything works. if i pull this out, there's no power to the red ignition wire and everything stops.

after this event today, i made my key much longer so that it extends out near my handlebars so i can pull it quickly while riding if i need to in order to pull all power from the bike.