Schwinn controller help

[schwinnelectricbike]

Hello Everyone, I have an electric bike made by Schwinn called Campus. It's like the tailwind. I was wondering if anyone can help me pick out a controller for it. The front hub is a protanium 250 watt. Right now the battery is 24 volt (29.4 volts) that I rebuilt with 21700 cells. But I would like to over volt it to 36. Can I do that? Or would it be too much for it? I would like to keep the throttle as is but could also buy one that goes with the controller. Thanks.

View attachment E-Bike_Manual.pdf

 

[Dauntless]

That manual is a lot of text and pics without real information. My knowledge of the scooters is better, but I've noticed they used a lot of the same parts on the bikes back then so I probably know your controller well. Which is to say overvolting won't accomplish much, if anything.

I found the YC31 controller, since yours is so low power this one is probably good enough though a YK43 is even better. Run it at 36v and I might guess you'll go from 10-12mph to 15-18mph, probably about as fast as brakes and stability will hold up on that bike. But I never rode one, can't say for sure. https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-36V-48W-250W-500W-800W-1000W-Brush-Motor-Controller-Electric-Scooter/402268323553

If your throttle doesn't work, I THINK I remember this will do, been awhile.https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4v-Hall-Effect-Twist-Throttle-Grip-for-Electric-Bikes-Scooters-Power-Wheels/192132746666?hash=item2cbc010daa:g:jFIAAOSwZG9WiunC

 

[schwinnelectricbike]

Dauntless, thanks for your reply.

My motor does not have a hall sensor and is brushless. I was thinking about this controller.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebike-T06S-T06P-KT-Controller-24V-36V-250W-350W-15A-controller-for-ebike-motor-/174037034733

Here is my controller.

Would it work? The T06p controller does have a speed sensor and HWBS (?) and mine does not...



Thanks

 

[Balmorhea]

That T06P controller is underpowered for your bike. You'll want to keep current (amps) the same as before, so you don't lose performance. So if you increase the voltage, you're looking for a 350-400W controller, not 250W.

The motor will be fine with even more current than before, but the battery may not support it.

 

[schwinnelectricbike]

Thanks Balmorhea. This controller says that it is 24v/36v 250/350w. So then I could just rebuild my battery to 36 volts? Right now my 24 volt battery is actually 29.4 volts...so that should get me 441 watts now? With the rebuilt 36v battery that would that get me 630 watts (10s battery with 42 voltage)?

 

[Dauntless]

If your old battery is 24v and you add 12v, it will usually wear out quickly. Don't mix new cells with old. Not sure how hard you'd really push that small bike, more than 10a is bound to be a good idea, especially if you want to ride very far.

Look at:

The motor itself. It says it's 24v and 250w, so think 11 amps. But the controller probably is continuous a little over that, can't say for sure. We don't know what would happen if you used, say, an old controller from my 350w scooter that promised 18a continuous. (Except it's for a brushed motor of course.) You might do better with that, at least going uphill, etc. But if you want to go faster you need the 36v.

So if the controller offers 36v and over 20a, that's supposed to be good. Of course you never know what will perform as promised.

Don't take this as a recommendation of this controller, I don't know it, but it sounds right. Keep in mind that the first little picture under the big one you posted shows different plugs from the big picture. So look at your controller itself looking for a match.

I don't know if yours has PAS, (Doubtful) I don't know if this one will work without, something to be careful of.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000834590161.html

 

[schwinnelectricbike]

Dauntless, I am not planning on mixing old cells with new ones. I just rebuilt the 24volt battery with new 21700s so I could get more of those..go from a 7s to a 10s. Or just build another one.

And...thanks for your controller recommendation. I will look at it more closely. I need a controller that will work without a hall sensor.

 

[schwinnelectricbike]

Hello Everyone I am moving my topic over to technical to see if I can get the help I need. Here is the original thread in the general section:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=106462

I am trying to find a controller that will work with my Schwinn Campus 250 watt motor with no hall sensor. I am wondering if the KU65 will work without a hall sensor. The website says "Hall sensor and sensorless compatiable". So I am assuming that it will work. I just read in other threads that it will not work without a hall sensor.

here is the controller
https://bmsbattery.com/home/1010-18239-s-ku65-controller-for-led810-250w15a-6mosfets-controller.html#/341-led-no_led

Also, does anyone know the voltage cutoff of this controller? can I go 10s 42 volt (36v battery)?

Thanks

 

[Balmorhea]

Thanks Balmorhea. This controller says that it is 24v/36v 250/350w. So then I could just rebuild my battery to 36 volts? Right now my 24 volt battery is actually 29.4 volts...so that should get me 441 watts now? With the rebuilt 36v battery that would that get me 630 watts (10s battery with 42 voltage)?

If your controller is rated for 36V, the easiest thing is to use it, and increase the battery voltage to 36V. Remember you'll need to install a 10S BMS.

Nameplate wattages are nominal, not actual. If there's an amp rating on the controller, you can multiply that number by the voltage to get maximum electrical watts. Motor wattage will peak at maybe 75% of this value after efficiency losses in the motor and controller.

 

[Dauntless]

I need a controller that will work without a hall sensor.

That is something I want to learn about myself. People say the new controllers will largely work without the sensors to they continue to work when there is sensor failure, but I'd rather you take the word of someone who has witnessed this.

Greentime has touted this function, they have been popular here and you can find threads. Recently someone was trashing them, saying he pulls the newer open and they look bad. I don't know what to think. I have 18 of the 'Melon' motors for which I'd want 180a or more at 48v, maybe even 72v. They used to tout being able to build that big, but will they still be good?

But aren't they wonderfully cheap?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000589213497.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2012487273.html

Oh hey, I see this keyswitch looking that up so I'll give you that too. I've sure had a lot stolen.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846151719.html

 

[amberwolf]

Hello Everyone I am moving my topic over to technical to see if I can get the help I need. Here is the original thread in the general section:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=106462

I merged your old topic into this new one, since it's not very polite to just dump the people that were already helping you and start a whole new thread for the same thing.

This way all those already helping can continue to do so, and anyone new that comes along will have all the info already present from previous posts.

 

[motomech]

Hello Everyone I am moving my topic over to technical to see if I can get the help I need. Here is the original thread in the general section:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=106462

I am trying to find a controller that will work with my Schwinn Campus 250 watt motor with no hall sensor. I am wondering if the KU65 will work without a hall sensor. The website says "Hall sensor and sensorless compatiable". So I am assuming that it will work. I just read in other threads that it will not work without a hall sensor.

here is the controller
https://bmsbattery.com/home/1010-18239-s-ku65-controller-for-led810-250w15a-6mosfets-controller.html#/341-led-no_led

Also, does anyone know the voltage cutoff of this controller? can I go 10s 42 volt (36v battery)?

Thanks

On the subject of a sensorless controller, I've had a couple of motors that had one or more Hall sensor fail and had to run them sensorless. The first time it happened was about 6 years ago and I tried a KU63, and frankly, it didn't work very well. The KU series is a very old design and the add-on sensorless module is rather crude. The best sensorless controller I've used was a custom job from Lyen;
http://www.lyen.com/
You might contact him and tell him what you have and are trying to do, I found him very helpful and he set-up my controller to what I wanted, max Amps and LVC.
The down side was It took a while to get it.
As good as it was, it wasn't perfect because every controller that I have run sensorless has a bit of a delay most of the time requiring a half to a full turn of the pedals. The controller needs to "see" the rotation and sync. up. Usually not a prob., except when stopped on a uphill.
Not sure how your Schwinn controller handled this and if it is something you experienced.
Having said that, I would just sell the Schwinn to someone who wants a slow, basic ebike and build what you want. You seem to have some skills already and "splicing" into a factory bike can often turn out to be akin to opening the Pandora's Box. One thing leads to another and to another....

 

[schwinnelectricbike]

OK. So i received the S-KU-65 controller...put it on the Schwinn Campus and the front wheel didn't turn.

I have the LED810 but not a throttle. Do I need a throttle? I know that some people like the throttle but I just like the three levels of speed. Or do all controllers need a throttle? My other Schwinn GSE World has just three levels of speed and no throttle.

So far I have these wires hooked upAS, LED810, Brake wires, 3 phase front tire, and of course the power...I am running this sensorless since my front hub doesn't have a hall sensor.

Thanks for all of your help so far.

 

[schwinnelectricbike]

OK...Now I do have it working. I used the throttle on the bike(this one had one). But is not that fast and the PAS is still not working. And the three levels of speed is not working either. I am assuming that the throttle overrules the three level of speed. So as far as the PAS maybe my PAS on the crank is not compatible with the controller. The wires are hooked up as signal to signal, power to power (5volt), And ground to ground.

 

[amberwolf]

I don't know the specifics on how your controller works, but some PAS-controllers only use the pedal sensor to activate the ability to use the throttle, and then the throttle actually does the controlling of assist amount.

If you have a voltmeter you can at least test the PAS sensor, black lead on any ground wire, then red lead first on the 5v to verify it's correct, then on the signal wire, where you should see pulses when the pedals are spun forwards, but not when they are spun backwards.