Seeking ultrasonic transducers for DIY ultrasonic cleaner

[bowlofsalad]

Hello,

I am sure others have used this idea before, maybe it is implemented in some commercial products I am unaware of. I am considering making a heated ultrasonic cleaner. I was doing some reading on the best ways to clean things, plenty say things like ultrasonic is like magic for cleaning junk. I've used it some myself, but it's been a while since then.

What I imagine to be the most effective method is something like 50/50 simple green heated to boiling or near, with a range of ultrasonic frequencies. I don't know if you can run a series of ultrasonic frequencies at once and not have them interfere with one another, otherwise I'd just run them all at once one way or another. But assuming they interfere with each other, I'd have each frequency run for second intervals between each other. After the session is over, some say dunking things in rubbing alcohol to remove any residue is the way to go.

I have found some online, but there isn't exactly a review or opinion section for any of this kind of stuff, so I thought I might ask here guessing that some are familiar with this concept and have experience in some degree.

If you know of a commercial unit that does what I just described, that'd probably do just as well, though I'd probably prefer to make it myself as that'd be a whole lot less costly if nothing else.

Thanks

 

[torqueon]

Some time ago I purchased a 100 watt ultrasonic generator with the transducer for about $ 120 with shipping from allied express.
The first use of this, was to clean a really nasty toilet, lots calcium buildup. It worked fairly well considering the lack of planning.
Its been stated that its inaudible to human hearing. Well 10 minutes of this noise is about all i could stand. Plus I could hear all the rodents in the attic bailing out.
If you have pets consider them, as they will hear it and probably suffer.

Commercial units are expensive, inaudible and due work wonders ! I remember cleaning up a carburetor with one, 10 minutes and perfect. To do this by hand your talking hours of tedious labor.

Good luck and hope to hear more.

Pete

 

[bowlofsalad]

Wow, toilet cleaning, there is an application I wouldn't have imagined. Have you tried pouring lots of vinegar into the toilet?

 

[torqueon]

No, but with vinegar it probably would of worked better for sure. God I hate toilets, surly a worth while topic L O L .

I think the transducer I purchased was intended to be mounted to the bottom of a tank of some sorts

 

[bowlofsalad]

No, but with vinegar it probably would of worked better for sure. God I hate toilets, surly a worth while topic L O L .

I think the transducer I purchased was intended to be mounted to the bottom of a tank of some sorts

Most of the trandsducers I've found appear to mount that way, a few looked like they attached to a tube and were waterproof. I imagine getting a small stainless steel tub, welding on some stainless steel bolts to the bottom and screwing the ultrasonic transducers on it. I've only come up with two viable options for heating, a single electric stove or a submersion heater that has a sort of hook. Either one would work, but I think the electric stove would be easier and cheaper to use, the electric stove options include a knob to adjust the temperature, which is something I think is important. The transducers I've seen seem to have temperature limitations. Some say the heating isn't important, maybe I'll try it both ways and see how it goes.

I saw some videos about people using a jig saw or a hand sander as what they call an ultrasonic device, they'd strap it to a bucket or something. I am sure it mixes things up, but my understanding of ultrasonic transduction works very differently than stirring things around well.

 

[torqueon]

From my understanding the high frequency creates an agitation that can get into a porous surface, that crud bonds to. Such as the toilet, described! You can't feel or see it but the porosity, is there. The agitation you described with jigsaw etc. does work but on a lesser degree.
I do not know what kind of cleaning your after. But from what I have seen with ultrasonic cleaning, I don't think heat is necessary, nor is the detergent.
I would start with ultrasonic 1st than ad heat and or detergents as needed. As they say KISS. Keep it super simple.

BTW simple green does work good but leaves a residue.
The transducer I have gets hot with out a load.

 

[bowlofsalad]

From my understanding the high frequency creates an agitation that can get into a porous surface, that crud bonds to. Such as the toilet, described! You can't feel or see it but the porosity, is there. The agitation you described with jigsaw etc. does work but on a lesser degree.
I do not know what kind of cleaning your after. But from what I have seen with ultrasonic cleaning, I don't think heat is necessary, nor is the detergent.
I would start with ultrasonic 1st than ad heat and or detergents as needed. As they say KISS. Keep it super simple.

BTW simple green does work good but leaves a residue.
The transducer I have gets hot with out a load.

The agitation is very different from an ultrasonic transducer compared to a jig saw or something. That is at least what I've come to understand, explaining it might be a little hard, a jigsaw will just shake parts and water around. Ultrasonic transducers will make violently popping bubbles form in the surface of things. While you could probably call those both agitation, in my mind it's like calling both a slow breeze and a f5 tornado simply wind. I could be wrong, but this is based on what I've seen and read about concerning these ideas.

Anyway, I understand the idea of KISS and the philosophy, but I wholly disagree with it and it's concepts, as strongly as I can and I suspect you do as well. To illustrate, were having a discussion about ultrasonic cleaners for cleaning things on a forum that uses chemical batteries to store and use electricity on electrified vehicles, ON THE INTERNET. If we wanted to 'KISS' we'd still be using wooden horse and buggy and having a conversation on how quickest to change a broken wheel face to face. The only difference that makes no difference is no difference.

I have read that most degreasers will leave a residue. I don't know if gasoline would leave a residue, but I know that high purity alcohol or acetone will evaporate completely, what you do once you clean something with some sort of non-toxic non-flammable degreaser is dunk the part a few times in something like alcohol or acetone a few times and it will come out real clean. This probably all sounds like supreme over kill, but that is often the direction I like to take and I like to think that if a job is worth doing, it is worth doing well. I imagine that plain water is probably good enough, but heating the water and adding degreaser followed with a rinse is probably close to bringing a part to as clean as it could be

Speaking of supreme over kill, I am a little on the fence of trying to use a wide range of ultrasonic frequencies. The size of the bubble produced is influenced by the frequency of the ultrasonic wave, a 20khz ultrasonic transducer will produce much larger bubbles than a 120khz ultrasonic transducer. You spoke a bit about this earlier, but when looking at something on a microscopic scale, surfaces are typically and generally very far from flat, a very large bubble won't be popping inside of a cravis that is smaller than it, leaving at least a little something behind likely. It's probably silly to consider these ideas, but I imagine 20s, 40s, 80s, and 120s in the khz range for ultrasonic transducers may produce a pretty effective range of cleaning. It would be great if it were possible to produce a significantly wider and more even range through out the khz ranges and such, but I feel that the cost might be high enough already and I don't really know where the level of diminishing returns starts but I doubt I'll ever really know without investing far more into this idea. I may have found a few devices that do this, but they are very costly.

So far, I've found very little in options for ultrasonic transducers. http://www.bjultrasonic.com/ This site seems to have some options though.

I wonder if a old/used stainless steel sink would work for this.

 

[bigmoose]

For industrial strength look for a Branson unit. We have them at work and they rock.

I picked up a $100 heated ultrasonic off of ebay. Does not appear to be as powerful as a Branson, but still does a reasonable job with pcb's. It's about a two quart capacity unit with stainless tub.

 

[torqueon]

Branson sonics are the kind, they also made ultrasonic welders as well! In Danbury Connecticut.