Sevcon Gen 4 Size 6 questions

[Alexanderfoti]

Hi all

Looking for this for my fazer project (116v, 400+amps)

I have done some reading around, and think that if I can get assistance from somebody for configuration (on the bits I get stuck on), I can make it work.

I am sure the answer is yes, but can this controller:

Run My Enertrac MHM602 BLDC hub motor (with U/V/W Hall sensors?)
Carry out regen braking based on a pot input?

I have an IT background and have read through a couple of device manuals, and feel that I could make it work, but it would be critical with the right documentation. Do you know if Sevcon make programming documentation available? (not guides, but datasheets, definitions etc?)

Thanks all!

 

[amberwolf]

Other than what is freely available from their website directly, any documentation they have made available, to anyone that posts here, would almost certainly have been posted in a thread here by someone, just because it is so hard to get anything out of them if you're not an OEM ordering pallets of them at a time. There is *some* documentation/etc. around the forum, but not much. So unless you see it in one of the various Sevcon-related threads, it's unlikely to be available at all (still possible...but unlikely).

Some of the threads are in this list:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=*sevcon*&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
with this probably have more info in one place than most of the others
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36146

There *are* people around the web that specialize in programming them for a fee (possibly for a living), though.

 

[Alexanderfoti]

Thank you very much. That is a bit of a shame. You would think they make documentation available to anybody who buys a "dev unit " to potentially use en mass in a finished product.

As I have said in the other thread, I think the only way I would entertain this controller, is if I had the services of somebody who can offer to initially program it.

My wife put it best, at this stage, to take apart a working bike to play with a sevcon for potentially hours, is not that clever.

 

[amberwolf]

I think you're probably looking at days or weeks, without any experience at it, rather than hours, from my little reading of others' experiences, if you don't have a base configuration file to start with.


I'm sure if you bought directly from Sevcon they provide all documentation, but you have to actually ask them. (just like any other manufacturer)

Support, on the other hand....if you were a major OEM working on a new prototype then they'd probably bend backwards to help you, because you might buy palletfuls. As an individual, they know they won't get any further money from you (excepting the odd future single sale), so the cost of supporting you vs what they make off of it isn't worth it. That is true of any manufacturer, even small-scale ones. It's all about balancing costs--they simply can't afford to support every individual unit they sell directly; they'd have to charge 5-digit price tags to be able to do that.

Some manufacturers sell support packages, and they might, too, or offer per-incident-fee support, like some places do, and they don't care if you're one person or a huge company, it's all being paid for so it's good.


Except for the ones that charge *way* more than their products are worth for small quantities (to offset support costs), all the companies I've ever dealt with that just offer free detailed support to everyone equally are no longer around, regardless of the business type--in the long run it's not sustainable. (and the ones that charge more aren't really giving away the support...you paid for it by being "overcharged" for the product itself; this is part of why Grin Tech's stuff costs so much more for the same thing than other places, for example).

 

[john61ct]

Some manufacturers sell support packages, and they might, too, or offer per-incident-fee support, like some places do, and they don't care if you're one person or a huge company, it's all being paid for so it's good.

Yes I'd be more inclined to use their gear if that were an option.

The maker should charge lots more than its dealers do though,

but BW does not even offer any training! That would in itself be profitable, plus all the leverage

developing a service & support channel is hugely important.

 

[Alexanderfoti]

Of course. I run a B2B company and we do not work with businesses below a certain size. I do not expect them to make a product then walk me through how to use, implement and configure it, step by step.

Its more about having access to official documentations and a large comprehensive knowledgeable. After all, if they are selling this product to thousands of businesses it would a better way of managing this documentation.

And whilst you mention that I can ask for them this, I am only basing this on the anecdotal information I have that says they will not supply this documentation when requested.

 

[Bernel]

Of course. I run a B2B company and we do not work with businesses below a certain size. I do not expect them to make a product then walk me through how to use, implement and configure it, step by step.

Its more about having access to official documentations and a large comprehensive knowledgeable. After all, if they are selling this product to thousands of businesses it would a better way of managing this documentation.

And whilst you mention that I can ask for them this, I am only basing this on the anecdotal information I have that says they will not supply this documentation when requested.

I have some manuals downloaded which may be of some use but dcf files are hard to come by. You would have to hope that someone out there has one that they would be willing to share. The DVT software and IXXAT converter are a must though and you can buy them online. The supplier I use in the UK is helpful and can be asked for support but you will have to pay.

Good luck with this

Bernel

 

[john61ct]

I have some manuals downloaded which may be of some use

Could you please share these and post / PM me the link?

> The DVT software and IXXAT converter are a must though and you can buy them online. The supplier I use in the UK is helpful and can be asked for support but you will have to pay.

I have learned the license key is strictly tied to the motherboard of the PC the key was generated on.

And after the first year of use the cost of "renewing" the DVT licensing is up to the dealer, to the point that Borg Warner allows them to simply refuse to do so.

As it seems they definitely will do for someone buying a secondhand IXXAT, the DVT license is strictly non-transferable.

Anyone know of a dealer in the world with friendlier policies in this regard, not using this arbitrary power to require an ongoing revenue stream?

And I'm also looking for

a good source of PAYG support, setting the GEN4 controllers up with a range of motors

as well as a good source of training, in order to become self-sufficient in doing so.

 

[john61ct]

My thread on the DVT licensing issue in case that discussion is considered OT here

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1554423#p1554423

 

[Bernel]

I have some manuals downloaded which may be of some use

Could you please share these and post / PM me the link?

> The DVT software and IXXAT converter are a must though and you can buy them online. The supplier I use in the UK is helpful and can be asked for support but you will have to pay.

I have learned the license key is strictly tied to the motherboard of the PC the key was generated on.

And after the first year of use the cost of "renewing" the DVT licensing is up to the dealer, to the point that Borg Warner allows them to simply refuse to do so.

As it seems they definitely will do for someone buying a secondhand IXXAT, the DVT license is strictly non-transferable.

Anyone know of a dealer in the world with friendlier policies in this regard, not using this arbitrary power to require an ongoing revenue stream?

And I'm also looking for

a good source of PAYG support, setting the GEN4 controllers up with a range of motors

as well as a good source of training, in order to become self-sufficient in doing so.

https://www.voltsport.co.uk/

 

[john61ct]

Thank you.

Funny that's the very outfit was **least** helpful about disclosing the licensing details.

But they sell the IXXAT brand new under warranty, cheaper than they seem to go for secondhand

bundled with a "free" DVT license

but only good for the original buyer.

Not willing to give any assurance they would process the required yearly renewal for free

nor help with a license "refresh" in the event the software needed to run on a new mobo.

Basically ghosted me once I raised these issues.

So of course the knee jerk reaction is to move on and look at other companies' controllers!

 

[Bernel]

Thank you.

Funny that's the very outfit was **least** helpful about disclosing the licensing details.

But they sell the IXXAT brand new under warranty, cheaper than they seem to go for secondhand

bundled with a "free" DVT license

but only good for the original buyer.

Not willing to give any assurance they would process the required yearly renewal for free

nor help with a license "refresh" in the event the software needed to run on a new mobo.

Basically ghosted me once I raised these issues.

So of course the knee jerk reaction is to move on and look at other companies' controllers!

I bought my DVT software from them in 2017 and emailed them when the licence needed renewing. It worked for me without a problem. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

 

[john61ct]

Have you been giving them any other ongoing revenue stream in that time?

Maybe they were just having a bad day. . .