Sexy Practical Velomobile?

[LI-ghtcycle]

Here is another really nice Velo, I like the way it's set-up in the high position (this is the way I would want to ride it, on a more up-right position high enough to have eye level with the average car driver.

http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/

Not sure it's even been build however, I strongly suspect these are all just CG concepts, but I REALLY like the looks of it! 8)

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, Practical? NO! but Sexy? YES!

http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/articles/3wheelstory/3wheelpage.htm

 

[John in CR]

Most of those won't be able to handle a stiff cross wind. Two wheels are better than 3, which means either landing gear or flywheel(s) for gyroscopic balancing at very low speeds or when stopped. You also left out passenger room, because only hermits want to be alone all the time. Most of the time I don't want to be totally enclosed either regardless of how much drag coefficient increases to avoid being in a solar oven.

The Zerotracer, and electric Monotracer, may come closest for a true highway speed rocket http://www.zerotracer.com/, but I don't know if they're even available and probably too heavy for my taste and definitely too expensive.

Another is the Lit C-1 that someone linked recently with the gyro effect, though again expensive I'm sure. http://www.gizmag.com/lit-motors-c1-self-balancing-motorcycle/21002/.

When are people going to get it through their heads that just because less is more, that doesn't mean it has to cost more. When you have a great product, make your money in mass production, not limited production

John

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

sexy like fat chick on rollerblades

not that there's anything rong wit dat

 

[Kirk]

Here is one we took on the Roll Over America Tour. Holds plenty of groceries or all of your camping gear, 55 mph on the flats, without E-Assist. Even ventilates well enough to keep you from frying in warm weather. Like the 104+ F in July/Aug crossing the bad lands or the High Plains of the Dakotas. Didn't go faster then 80 mph down Lolo Pass and other fun grades. It will go down faster but that doesn't mean you should. Average cruising speed is about 22 mph for me. I can get to 55 but can't keep it up for very long. http://pterovelo.com Done up in Carbon Fibre will run you about $12k.

 

[Chalo]

That's a slick velomobile, but I'm taking the "ventilates well enough" claim with a streamlined tailbox full of salt.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Here is one we took on the Roll Over America Tour. Holds plenty of groceries or all of your camping gear, 55 mph on the flats, without E-Assist. Even ventilates well enough to keep you from frying in warm weather. Like the 104+ F in July/Aug crossing the bad lands or the High Plains of the Dakotas. Didn't go faster then 80 mph down Lolo Pass and other fun grades. It will go down faster but that doesn't mean you should. Average cruising speed is about 22 mph for me. I can get to 55 but can't keep it up for very long. http://pterovelo.com Done up in Carbon Fibre will run you about $12k.

Very interesting!

will see if I can find info on the cargo area, it's still lower than I would like though.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Most of those won't be able to handle a stiff cross wind. Two wheels are better than 3, which means either landing gear or flywheel(s) for gyroscopic balancing at very low speeds or when stopped. You also left out passenger room, because only hermits want to be alone all the time. Most of the time I don't want to be totally enclosed either regardless of how much drag coefficient increases to avoid being in a solar oven.

The Zerotracer, and electric Monotracer, may come closest for a true highway speed rocket http://www.zerotracer.com/, but I don't know if they're even available and probably too heavy for my taste and definitely too expensive.

Another is the Lit C-1 that someone linked recently with the gyro effect, though again expensive I'm sure. http://www.gizmag.com/lit-motors-c1-self-balancing-motorcycle/21002/.

When are people going to get it through their heads that just because less is more, that doesn't mean it has to cost more. When you have a great product, make your money in mass production, not limited production

John

I disagree, less being more, having to depend on a mechanical system to balance the 2 wheel vehicle automatically and how is the C1 going to do all this while you are parked 8 hours at work? (the outriggers are more practical, but that is

just needless additional mechanical system that is IMO an overly complex "solution" to a problem that isn't there, motorcycles do just fine with kick stands)

That's a lot of wasted energy going into a flywheel when a tadpole design does all that for you without some sophisticated and complex balancing system that can break down, where as I can simply get used to how the tadpole trike

handles, and there are several designs that are known for their stability in corners.

Passengers in Velomobile? I imagine there is Tandem version, but this isn't a replacement to a car, this is still more of a fun commuter that like many motorcycles will rarely see a passenger (how many scooter riders take passengers

on a regular basis? I'm talking in the US, YMMV in CR :wink: the vast majority here are used for single riders)

I do agree that it's good to have ones that have the option of being open on the sides, that fact and price of one of the streamlined CF or Fiber Glass monocouque designs although being extremely aerodynamic and strong for their

weight, are inherently difficult to climb into, and low to the point that you have trouble seeing into car windows as you ride along side, that is a bigger problem IMO than anything with the "racer" style velomobiles.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

That's a slick velomobile, but I'm taking the "ventilates well enough" claim with a streamlined tailbox full of salt.

Yeah, and I am sure that it's a great velo, but the $12k price tag would make me still consider a more cost effective solution personally.

This is a more practical design in ways, but I doubt it is really giving much protection from the elements.

http://www.gizmag.com/sinclair-x1-pedal-electric/16838/

Here is another where the inventor seems to be taking advantage of cross winds (no real info I can find on how well it works, but it would appear to be functional)

 

[jimm]

I recommend a Leitra, a full beard, no schedule commitments, and a lifelong vow of celibacy.

And there you go, showing your ignorance.

Most Leitra owners, and in reality most velomobile owners are in their 40's on average (the known range is 18-60 from my experience), don't have beards (maybe one or two), have schedules to keep (regular commuters or racers), and are married or have girlfriends (including the plural with a few Dutch guys I know).

Heck, women come up to me all the time when in my Leitra Wildcat Nomad to chat me up - a few have even asked me out for drinks. Then again, this is Europe (I live in Copenhagen, Denmark), and women tend to appreciate people who cycle more as a part of their regular means of getting around town. *That* is sexy. To be able to cycle and still stay dry and warm is becoming more attractive all the time.

The photo you posted is of a Leitra I know personally - it's available at the Bicycle Innovation Lab's bike library in Copenhagen for borrowing, just like a book (I volunteer there). It's actually not a bad velomobile - stuck in the 80's for some of it's technology, but that keeps it's light and simple. It's arguably the best ventilated full-body velomobile available, and the most adaptable for one's needs. Perfect for all-weather daily commuting in the city and long touring, but not the greatest for racing (too tall).

he'd have gotten where he was going much faster on a regular bike

Possibly. But it's not always about speed. Comfort makes cycling enjoyable too, so that the ride is as important as the destination. For what it's worth, I commute regularly in jeans and sweater in the winter, even when it's -5 C outside, and in the summer I cycle in shorts. I pace myself so that I arrive no more sweaty than a regular cyclist, yet my legs are accustomed to recumbents so that I typically arrive faster than all but a dedicated cycle courier.

 

[jimm]

How is that wildcat for heat (your personal one on the bottom in black in red)?

I like the partially open on the sides with a tail box, looks like a good compromise.

The removable windshield is nice, but I'm not sure I would like such a narrow view, pretty nice looking though.

How does one determine a compatible trike to use with it? Seat height or?

is it open at the bottom for your feet to touch the ground?

You will get warm in the wildcat (mine is actually a dark orange and black- it's a bad photo) just from the heat collecting in canopy, but it's manageable because the sides are open. I've since closed off the sides for the winter to keep even more heat within. I can commute in a sweater and jeans comfortably. In the summer I just take the roof and windscreen off and that keeps me pretty cool and dry.

I don't think the view is as narrow as the photo's show - it's fairly panoramic. With the addition of side mirrors I see quite well all around me. The *bad* part is that this type of windscreen is pretty useless in the rain at night. City driving isn't fast enough to push the water away, so it just sits there acting like a spotted prism for car headlights. Working on an adjustable tilting windscreen, or adapt the Leitra's windshield wiper, this weekend to adress the problem.

So far Leitra has been able to fit the Wildcat on 5 different models of trikes. The trick lies in building appropriate attachments on the nose and behind the seat for mounting the fairing. It's just a fabrication issue that usually takes a day or two to figure something out for an unknown trike base. Carl Georg Rasmussen of Leitra is quite resourceful with aluminium and carbon fiber/glass fiber (he used to be an aircraft engineer by trade before switching to velomobiles). Typically, if you bring an unknown trike to his shop, he can build up a complete glass-fiber fairing kit with all the mounting hardware in about two weeks.

The Wildcat is open at the bottom, just like the standard Leitras. To get in, you just lift the nose fairing up and forward, step in (no climbing necessary as you do in most other velos), and lower the nose. Ease of getting in and out varies with the height of the trike seat.

I have added a 'floor' to my Nomad to protect the chain and improve protection from water splash. But I can still step in/out without problems.

Here is an old photo with the nose up- I've since changed the side panels to a black camping mat for better insulation in the winter:

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks Jimm!

The canopy lifting off the trike makes it very appealing as opposed to the ones you have to squeeze into from the top.

I don't mind things being higher up if it means I can use a higher seat positioned trike, much like the "Petal" concept trike.

Any ideas of a velomobile that allows for a higher seat so that you can have your head high enough to at least make contact with typical cars in traffic?

I avoid traffic as much as possible, but I will never forget the day I was driving a car and barely noticed a low tadpole trike that was nearly invisible with the exception

of the flag that appeared to be floating since everything else about the trike & rider was very dark colored, and I am more concerned about my being able to see at least

as well as I do from my Vision R-40.

I am even willing to go to a delta trike if need be to have the higher visibility, but I like how tadpoles handle better.

 

[jimm]

Any ideas of a velomobile that allows for a higher seat so that you can have your head high enough to at least make contact with typical cars in traffic?

I am even willing to go to a delta trike if need be to have the higher visibility, but I like how tadpoles handle better.

The Leitra is probably the only actual production velomobile built with the higher seat position (more upright than actually higher, but there is good ground clearance). I did have some success in converting my 2005 Anthrotech Trike into a velomobile, using and old Leitra Classic fairing. See https://picasaweb.google.com/103124336912395863201/LeitraTech for a gallery of that transformation over 2 years. It has now been re-purposed as a recumbent cycle taxi: https://picasaweb.google.com/103124336912395863201/2012CycleTaxi. It has a great seat position and good visibility from inside and out. Never had any trouble being seen in traffic.

I would not worry too much about not being seen in a velomobile of any kind. A brightly colored fairing (orange, yellow, white, red, light blue, etc.) will stand out easily. Riders of the lower Quests, Milans, Stradas, Mangos and the like rarely, if ever, report problems in not being seen by other traffic. During the ROAM tour in 2011, riders reported that all the cars/trucks/buses/etc. had no problem in seeing the velomobiles - they just stand out so well that you'd have to be blind to miss them. I've been riding my Wildcat Nomad for over a year and never once did someone say "I didn't see you!" or "you're too low!". The long shape of the velo just sticks out so much that you are more likely to *cause* accidents from people 'rubber-necking' than to be actually hit yourself.

Now that's not to say it doesn't happen. I've seen a Leitra come into the Leitra workshop near Copenhagen that was in an accident with a car - almost beyond repair. But the important point is that, like a car, the velomobile protected it's rider. So far, of the 3 bad Leitra accidents that I know of worldwide, the rider walked away with barely a scratch. Heck, even in my bastardized Anthrotech+Leitra, I survived a 3 meter fall into a canal at 30 km/h, including a barrel-roll down the embankment. The fairing kept me inside (no flailing arms/legs). I got out, got help pulling the trike from the canal, washed it off, made a few repairs to the glass fiber, and kept going on a 1,200 cycle tour through Germany. I don't think unfaired recumbents or other cyclists can report positively on the safety of their cycles to protect them from harm.

Certainly safer in a velomobile than on a bike with just a piece of foam and plastic stuck on your head!

Regarding a Delta trike as a base for a velomobile: yes it does have a good seat position (I'm a fan of the Kettweisel we have at the bike library), and maneuverability is some of the best for recumbent trikes in city settings. But steep hill climbing might be an issue since all the weight is over the rear wheels. That can be fixed with some weight up front, like using paniers for cargo, or adding an electric motor on the nose wheel. A nice idea would be to combine the Leitra Wildcat fairing kit with a delta-trike - could be a very nice ride with the best parts of different types of velomobiles.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks again Jimm, I am sure much of my concerns are more just lack of experience behind the fairing of velomobile, wish we had a "bicycle library" here locally (I live pretty close to Portland Oregon) so I could check out a couple velos!

I'm still leaning towards a home made since I want a unique shape/design, but I really appreciate all the photos and information!

Btw, are you "digitalmouse" on Bent Rider?

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=74279

Looks like your trike here?

 

[jimm]

Here is another really nice Velo, I like the way it's set-up in the high position (this is the way I would want to ride it, on a more up-right position high enough to have eye level with the average car driver.

Yet with a lack of a windshield wiper, it would be useless in the rain, especially at night! Raindrops and car-lights make a bad combo. And the polycarbonate bubble will get scratched easily.

 

[jimm]

Thanks again Jimm, I am sure much of my concerns are more just lack of experience behind the fairing of velomobile, wish we had a "bicycle library" here locally (I live pretty close to Portland Oregon) so I could check out a couple velos!

I'm still leaning towards a home made since I want a unique shape/design, but I really appreciate all the photos and information!

Btw, are you "digitalmouse" on Bent Rider?

Yep, that's me! I kibitz on those forums fairly often. Home made is a great way to experiment without shelling out the big money for a production velomobile. I'd recommend looking at projects that use Coroplast (looks like corrugated cardboard, but actually plastic). Make a shell/frame, and just zip-tie/tape/glue the stuff together. Very light, and while not very strong it will keep you warm and dry.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Here is another really nice Velo, I like the way it's set-up in the high position (this is the way I would want to ride it, on a more up-right position high enough to have eye level with the average car driver.

Yet with a lack of a windshield wiper, it would be useless in the rain, especially at night! Raindrops and car-lights make a bad combo. And the polycarbonate bubble will get scratched easily.

Yeah, I'm seeing why many of the velomobiles have very limited forms of windshield if they have any at all, I'll probably end up doing something similar to this for a "roof":

I don't mind wearing a helmet in the bad weather (if needed), I'm pretty used to dealing with rain that way from prior experience riding motorcycles in Oregon (we have 2 seasons, warm rain spring & summer, cold rain fall & winter! )

But at the slower speeds that I would be riding at, I would think just a good canopy would be enough and no real windshield would be needed.

 

[Kirk]

The Flevo Roof that is in the above picture is very popular. I've seen it on everything from Alleweders to Quests. Everyone seems to like it.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

The Flevo Roof that is in the above picture is very popular. I've seen it on everything from Alleweders to Quests. Everyone seems to like it.

Good to know! thanks

I'm thinking at this point first (this is far into the future) I want to find first off the trike that I like, and then build a velo to work with it.

Thanks everyone for your input!

 

[Kirk]

I'm thinking at this point first (this is far into the future) I want to find first off the trike that I like, and then build a velo to work with it.

Thanks everyone for your input!

If you're thinking of a trike first then building the velomobile to suit, there are two good options that you might want to investigate.Borealis in BC makes velo bodies for the ICE trikes http://velomobiles.ca/index.html they were only on the ROAM tour until Missoula MT and had to return to BC to keep the shop doors open. Velocity Velos had a velo with an Ecospeed E-Assist that went all the way to DC, piloted by the company owner Taylor Wilhouse http://velocityvelos.com his was based on a Terra Trike but he is offering kits for other brands of trikes these days. I hope one of them will suit you, as always though YMMV.

 

[ecocar]

Please see this: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46331 It has a really good value for money (2500 or 3000 euros including nine continent electric kit)and two tandem seats. This is only a prototype (we are thinking about producing it), but some used prototypes will be sold in spring. It's a north Italian product. For info ecocar@live.it

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Nice build there Ecocar!

I'm thinking a little sleeker however, I am torn between the incredible aerodynamics of the really low narrow velos and the more practical.

Here is another design that is seeming to be a bit of both:

http://rbr.info/community/blog/14-travis/128-aergo-update.html

It was developed from this velomobile on two wheels:

http://rbr.info/index.php?option=co...tid=14%3Atravis&Itemid=143&fontstyle=f-larger

 

[Kirk]

I always though that RBR should try one of the ICE full suspension trikes, like a Adventure NT model for the Aergo.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I always though that RBR should try one of the ICE full suspension trikes, like a Adventure NT model for the Aergo.

Yeah, or at least balloon tires (that is what I use most of the time) in lieu of suspension, I like how the big apples seem to still have great low rolling resistance for their size and volume (2 x 2.0 I hear are pretty popular, I have one on the front of my R40, but I'd have to experience it on a trike/velo to see if it works for me or not).

I know the Aergo isn't going to be quite as aerodynamic as the lower more streamline velos, but it looks like it would be a lot easier to get into than most.

If I build something similar, I would make the rear side removable as a panel or maybe a hinged door to access cargo & the rear wheel.

I also like the idea of the single swing-arm style rear ends of many velos, wonder how many trikes are built that way to begin with? (none that are would be cheap, but I'm not afraid to buy quality gear)

 

[docnjoj]

I think the WAW has a single sided rear trailing arm. Not too expensive IIRC.
otherDoc