Simple e-bike kit

swen

1 mW
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
11
Hi,

i am trying to put together a simple e-bike kit that i can install and remove completely withing 2-3 minutes. Looking at the various complete kits available im an unsure of the following:

1. Are e-brakes essential for the kit to work? What if i continue to use my normal brakes instead?
2. Most kits come with a PAS sensor. Will the motor control/throttle function properly without it?

I understand that such a setup will not conform to regulations.

Thanks for the help!
 
welcome to ES 8)

What power levels are you expecting ?.. what are your riding conditions ? .. hills. flat.. dry use only .. etc.

something like a friction drive seat post mounted setup would be quick on/off
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22187

also
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20491

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with hub motor kits, most of them will function fine without the ebrakes .. no worries there.

but frequent install/remove would be a problem over time with axle nuts wearing out and stripping.. far from ideal..

consider having 2 bikes. one electric.. another regular bicycle.
 
Thanks,

the setup i'm thinking of is as followed:

- front wheel with 36v/250W hubmotor and quick realease axle
- controller and battery in a waterproof handlebar bag
- clip on thumb-throttle
- waterproof quick cable connectors

Terrain is mostly flat with some gentle slopes. I would like to be able to ride in wet conditions. A max speed of 25km/h and 25km range would be optimal. Will a 7Ah Lithium-Ion pack do the job?
 
You could wait for the Copenhagen Wheel to be ready...Not the cheapest solution, but reasonable, considering it's all-inclusive.
 
Welcome to the forum.

There are a few problems with your idea.
Unfortunately there aren't any quick release axles for hub motors. They require a more solid mounting than a skewer can provide. Even the tiniest motors make enough twisting force to snap the dropouts and cause a wheel loss if not mounted properly.

Controllers need air for cooling. mounting them in a bag can damage or destroy them, and is potential a fire hazard if they get hot enough. Generally they stay cool to the touch, but can get very hot in normal operation. Controllers also don't like to be bounced around in a bag. they need to be mounted solidly to the bike frame

There are no clip on throttles. Technically, one could be made by replacing the bolts with thumb screws.

"Waterproof" is relative. The best are more like water resistant. it matters more on how you mount the connections

The idea of a quick removal kit comes up every few months. Unfortunately, its not as good idea in practice as it would be in theory. Luckily, there are alternatives, depending on your needs..


The easiest is to mount a tiny Andana Q100. its 1.5KG, and freewheels when not in use so it causes no drag on the bike. the controller is small and light and can also be mounted out of the way. that also means you can leave the throttle in place. That also allows you to mount the wires much better, assuring you can properly waterproof the connectors.

THe battery is removable, and is the bulk of the weight anyway, so when you don't want an Ebike, you just pop off the battery and ride. the weight of the q100 system isn't much different than the weight of a good rack system, and won't affect your performance.


As for the battery size, thats tough. At 30MPH a 25KM ride would need 15AH of capacity. you would often get further, but batteries lose capacity over time.sometimes 10-20% per year regardless of use. And riding in headwinds, up hills, or deep cold takes far more power than a windless spring day on a flat smooth road. And lithium batteries don't like to be drained all the way very often.
7AH might get you 25KM under perfect conditions. But in the real world, you're going to need double that.


As for ebrakes, you may need them for legal reasons, but with a geared hub motor, they serve no real purpose. their job is to cut motor power if you forget to let go of the throttle and grab the brake. Motorcycles don't have that feature. cars don't have that feature.

As for pedelec systems. Most kits have that as an option, but a few kits are designed to need to be pedaled in order to work. make sure the kit you order is set up for TAG (twist and go), or Immediate start operation.
 
swen said:
Problems i have with things like the Rubbee or Share-Roller:

1. Price
2. They make my bike look ugly:)
3. I have doubts they will perform well when the tires and friction rollers are wet.

1. I think the price is fair. You pay for the battery as well and its OEM with warranty and all what you not get for the stuff from China. I think you will see what i mean when you will start buying stuff from different vendors and paying for transportation and TAX plus you will need to build your battery or buy from the likes of em3ev or ping.
2. I think most DIY jobs with macaroni wiring and duct tape batteries are more ugly than engineered neat peace of kit.
3. I dare to doubt that it would to a larger extent. I heard these bite into tire really well

I think you need to listen to Drunkskunk and for quick release there is no other option than frictiondrive but perhaps you could be the inventor of one?!
 
Thanks for the pointers Drunkskunk,

i agree that the quick release axle might be the biggest hurdle to overcome. Need to look at that further.

agniusm said:
1. I think the price is fair. You pay for the battery as well and its OEM with warranty and all what you not get for the stuff from China. I think you will see what i mean when you will start buying stuff from different vendors and paying for transportation and TAX plus you will need to build your battery or buy from the likes of em3ev or ping.
2. I think most DIY jobs with macaroni wiring and duct tape batteries are more ugly than engineered neat peace of kit.
3. I dare to doubt that it would to a larger extent. I heard these bite into tire really well

I think you need to listen to Drunkskunk and for quick release there is no other option than frictiondrive but perhaps you could be the inventor of one?!

1. I do not have issues with their pricing policy and surely appreciate the workmanship and quality that comes with the product. It's just a matter of my budget being to low for it :).
2. Products like the Rubbee just stick out to much for my taste. If my idea of using a handlebar bag to "hide" the battery and controller works out it should be much more pleasing on the eyes. There are so many bag designs to choose from on the market. The setup being a front-wheel mount will also keep wiring at a minimum. Easy to run the cables in a tidy manner, from the motor and throttle respectively.
3. I'm happy to stand corrected when field reports start coming in.

Thanks all for the input. Will keep you updated on the progress.
 
Sure, but if you would dig on ES you will find discreet small systems developed here. You could make it yourself and price would be a lot lower. The pointer is that you cant make a system that is quick to take off be it hub or mid drive.
 
I agree, though you can remove a front hub pretty quick, it's going to wear out the threads on the axle very soon doing it often.

Two bikes is the best solution, I often recommend that if a guy has a very nice bike he loves, don't ruin it with a motor kit. Put a motor on something affordable, and you will be amazed at how little cheap shifters matter, when you never shift anymore. Generally a good saddle, and perhaps a better front crankset will improve a poor bike enough, as long as the brakes don't suck balls. For example, a 7 speed beach cruiser with v brakes can make a great ebike. Even though it's a heavy pig that would be horrible with out a motor.

The in between compromise is a smaller rear motor, with planetary gears. Those motors will freewheel, allowing relatively normal pedaling with the battery removed from the bike. The controller, motor, and throttle stay on the bike permanent, but can be mounted quite discreetly. The motor just hides behind the gears, and perhaps a brake disk, and nobody notices it.
 
There you go:
file.php

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51389&p=760184&hilit=friction#p760184
Just need to design quick release seatpost clamp
Friction drive that is small, easy to build and costs not that much.
 
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