Some custom work going on in the "Matt-Cave" :~)

i think the trike is lacking a little ooomph :shock:
sheeeeeeeet, seriously impressive Matt!!!
now how would that be setup on one of those motopeds Kim showed? :twisted: sub 60lb crosser anyone?

D
 
deecanio said:
i think the trike is lacking a little ooomph :shock:
sheeeeeeeet, seriously impressive Matt!!!
now how would that be setup on one of those motopeds Kim showed? :twisted: sub 60lb crosser anyone?

D
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60lbs :shock: and the rest Deec...Its 107lb bike with the ICE motor by the time you pile batteries and electric motors in there your going to be waaaaay over 60lbs I would actually be surprised if you could get it under 100lbs without sacrificing range.

KiM
 
Deec....Matt has already said this trike weighs 100lbs....I am in the process of drawing up a frame that will hopefully come in at around 100-110 lbs.....for my twin 3220's and either 25ah or 30ah of lipo. I spose i should upload a basic cad drawing of what im doing in my build...at the moment just trying to figure out rear suspension geometry.

recumpence said:
Bear in mind, your drives will be about 20hp peak. This is 28hp peak. However, even 20hp is way over the top for anything designed for pedalling. :mrgreen:
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hehe yeah, at the end of the day id say its still going to be more than enough, as you can imagine, add a bit of suspension sag and higher COG and i think even 20hp at 100lbs is going to be pointing the front wheel at the clouds, enough to keep me happy anyway. Your method of wiring sounds oh so much simpler than the birds nest I had devised in my head........
 
ooops my bad, just plucked that figure from the sky :oops: :lol:
well 100lbs then, as long as it has the gonads to haul it, whatever.
I dont really need 25-30ah of batts tho - i would be much happier losing all that weight and having 2 x 10ah packs that are quick swap, with the ability to pedal i find that 10 ah is wayyyy enough for me for an hour and halfs ride, bearing in mind that the 2nd 10ah pack can be charged in an hour that means perpetual riding no? i understand if your not coming home for a whilez and you want to travel mega distance but for me im never more than 3 miles from home really so the quick swap method works better for me.

D
 
Matt, you really need clipless pedals. I thought they were standard on recumbents..

If you drop a foot at 60mph you will lose the whole leg.


A helmet wouldn't hurt either....or body armour.


And, IT'S FRICKIN AWESOME. Well done. Need some reverse wheelie bars for the tip forward under brakes :)
 
Yes, clipless pedals are really a good thing, especially for trikes because you never need to take a foot off when you stop anyway. That may be in the cards for me. :)

As for power to weight, my PK Ripper BMX bike was 47 pounds AUW with pack. That bike was 8kw continuous. Now, add suspension, a touch larger frame, chromoly instead of aluminum, and a larger pack (that pack was only 8.8ah 12S) and you are probably looking at around 75 pounds for a super light E-motard. Heck, I can tell you 100 pounds is easy to achieve. After all, this trike has individual CNC battery boxes. A TIG welded single box would save alot of weight. The pack on this thing is 30ah. It weighs nearly 30 pounds by itself. Then there is the frame. That frame is quite heavy as well. So, going with a 15 AH pack, and doing everything possible to keep the weight down, I think a 60 to 65 pounds full suspension E-motard or motorcrosser is possible, but would not be easy to achieve.

Now, the CG question is a sticky one. Trikes are funky vehicles. For one thing, they require high front weight bias for stable cornering. But, the tendency to endo under braking becomes a reality as you have seen. The previous trike I built had far more weight on the front than this trike does. However, they also had brakes that are not as strong as these. As I test drove this trike, I found the front wheels skidding into corners. At the end of the video, when you hear screaching as the rear tire pitches a touch to one side, what you are hearing and seeing is not a hole or a bump, that is VERY hard braking and pitching into a turnaround at the end of that run. The inside front tire was skidding a bit. For most runs, the front tires just skid. It was a bit of a surprise that the rear end lifted at the end of the run. That happened because the front rires were hot and because I was coming to a dead stop. With any amount of corner entrance speed, it does not left the rear tire. Also, the front tires are a bit low on pressure. They will be aired up to reduce side wall roll. That will reduce endo tendency as well. Lastly, I have another 10ah of packs to add to the rear of this thing if I want to. That will add 12 pounds to the rear. But, it also adds 12 pounds to the trike and that I do not want.

Anyway, this trike is not perfect, but any means. It is a bit high powered for mere cruising. I mean, it will cruise just fine. But, it is also so powerful that care must be taken to keep from blipping the throttle too hard. The throttle is very linear, however, and that helps alot. The throttle is also somewhat long-throw. So, that makes fine throttle control a touch easier as well.

Overall I am obviously very happy. I hope it sells quickly. If not, I will add a center console, GPS, a CA, a few safety items, and new pedals. But, I am trying to turn a tidy proffit on this. So, that stuff will wait. :)

Matt
 
What a ripper! That thing jets!

Great work! I showed the guys at work your video, and they all said it sounded increadible and looked crazy fast! :)

Good work Matt!
 
Rodg,

I just got an email from a customer running your exact setup (other than the case). His email read "I got the bike finished. But, it was too powerful and i flipped it over............." :mrgreen: He is thrilled!

Be prepared!

I love power..........

Matt
 
recumpence said:
"I got the bike finished. But, it was too powerful and i flipped it over............." :mrgreen: He is thrilled!
Click to expand...

hahhaa no such thing as TOO POWERFUL. You must of seen I was browsing.... currently 11:20pm here. What spoke thickness do you use? I cant seem to find a definite answer on what ie:12gauge refers to in bicycle land(motor bikes are infinitely simpler) oh and do you use/recommend double butted or just straight thick spokes. Im growing more and more worried I may not find a wheel combination that can withstand this kind of power, over rough ground. And the range of MTB forks completely baffles me, at this point I have my eye on new Boxxers for bang/buck but it seems there is no unanimous vote toward any in that range. I guess all will be revealed as i sail through the air at 60-80kms/h into trees/shrubs/rocks/dirt after a wheel collapses or forks break out from under me :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ...hopefully not

Rodger
 
02jze said:
best electric trike ever.. I want a turn. What are you selling it for ??
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$10,000. :mrgreen:




Rodg,

I am running simple straight 2mm spokes and only 32 hole! I would recommend 36 hole, high quality straght guage spokes. You should be fine. Thick spokes are mainly for heavy hub motors.

I am a White Brother's dealer. If you have an interest in their forks, I can get you whatever you want and they will drop ship for me.

Matt
 
Great video Matt, awesome smoke show (finally) :mrgreen:

Blows my mined how fast that tadpole trike can go. Love the zooming sound of the motor.
You just raced the bar :D

Congrats

Zenon
 
02jze said:
Exspensive toy but geez that would be good to own..i havent read the whole thread is that 2x 3220's?
Click to expand...

Well, sort of. The trike is running two custom made 3220s. Basically, these are 3220s with 1/2 inch diameter shafts that use an external front shaft support bearing and are specially would for extremely high RPM. They are 4 turn Deltas. After building them, they were dyno tested to assure the output power, and RPM were what I was looking for. Also, they were tested to assure they are a good matched pair. Basically, Astro Flight does not build motors this radical. I have a unique relationship with them. When I ask for something, they are pretty much willing to build it, assuming I am willing to wait a long time and allow them to work out any kinks. I think they are kind of worried about building a couple grand worth of custom motors only to have the customer complain about something and they have to remake the motors. So, they stick with known setups. These are a real gamble. But, it seems to pay off. I am just concerned that the controllers survive. I really need to carve out some time to add even more caps to them. :)

Matt
 
Matt,
don't know if I missed it but I haven't seen any pics of the trike finished. Or better yet, if you could do a walk around video highlighting all the features and bling. Thanks. Did you get the batteries charged up and taken it for the real maiden voyage? Might need am airport or something to really get into this thing. :mrgreen:
 
No, I haven't charged it all the way up yet. People keep stopping by to see it run. :) You should see the black marks all over the place. I will post pics over the next couple days.

I will be at the shop tomorrow. I will take some more pictures and a walk around video of it. Warren from Recumbents.com requested this anyway for my build log on his site.

I can tell you at 20% state of charge it was running well over 50mph. So, 60 is a good guess at top speed. Also, I cannot believe how explosive this thing is even on a low pack. However, and I cannot stress this enough, this thing is really, REALLY stable! The other trikes were a "Holy-Crap, I'm going to die!" kind of thing. This trike just runs fast and never seems to let you know it is in any way unstable. Of course, that took a high quality steering damper setup somewhat stiff. But, I never notice the damper while riding, other than the added stability.

An airport would be a good place to test it. But, I do know some back roads I can run it on.

Matt
 
recumpence said:
An airport would be a good place to test it. But, I do know some back roads I can run it on.
Click to expand...

Would LOVE to see this and also some 400 meter times if you could swing it Matt...? Your 60 foot time
would be impressive, traction being your worst enemy, don't forget the 'smoke show' before the run
to :: cough :: warm up the tire :: cough :: :mrgreen:

KiM
 
Yes, there is more no-load heat than the 6 turn Deltas I was running. However, these things are so overpowered that they are not being stressed most of the time. When I ride casually, I see about 30 to 40 degrees above ambient temperature, typically. Although I have not put large miles on it yet to get a good handle on that.

Hal,

It is 20kw. It can peak at 24kw for 30 seconds according to Bob from Astro. The controllers cannot take that for long, though. :mrgreen:

All I know is, at ANY time (any speed) I can crack the throttle an additional 10% or less and still break the tire loose. The throttle is like an RPM assignment device. The split second the throttle position is altered, the motors instantly adopt that RPM, no matter what the tire can take. So, I need to be careful while cruising and increasing speed because it VERY easily blows the tire loose. The beauty of this setup is, if that happens mid corner, the trike is VERY stable and willing to enter a slide casually and hold that slide easily. This thing makes the average driver look and feel like a world class drifter. So, it never feels like it is going to swap sides. It is actually pretty easy to ride, considering the power it has.

Matt
 
recumpence said:
The throttle is like an RPM assignment device.
Click to expand...

I LOVE to drive cars like that. :)

I wish you were closer Matt, I would give you a $50 to cover the impending rear tire damage, and have a ball running through a charge around town on that monster. :)
 
You are welcome to fly in and take it for a spin (wheel spin?). :mrgreen:

It runs like a big block with a blower. But, so far, it runs reliably. There are no odd sounds or behavior detected so far, other than a flat front tire. I think there is a burr inside the rim. I need to check that out today.

Matt
 
I'm sure it's not a burr causing the flat--it's a meteorite puncture, from the speed the wheel hits the road dust. :lol:
 
I replaced the tube and did some more riding. I blew another controller. I have blown two for the same reason. They did not both arm and I didn't realize it. When I took off, the back-feed went into the second (unarmed) controller and blew it. So, I need to build a cap charge circuit. Also, in warm weather, the hook of the rear tire is so extreme, I am overamping the two controllers. That takes nearly 400 amps EACH. So, here is what I am doing; ----I ordered a 62 tooth rear sprocket (up from 56 tooth). This will bring the 60mph top speed down to about 51mph. That 11% reduction in gearing should drop the controller load somewhere around 25%. Beyond that, I talked to Castle and they recommended using the slow spool-up feature in the controller software (heli section) and program it for 2 or 3 second spool-up. That should drop the amp spikes caused by hitting the throttle too hard. They figure my controllers were seeing something over 3,000 amp spikes for a few miliseconds when the throttle is opened. The spool-up should reduce that to several hundred amp spikes, not several THOUSAND amps. It also may have the side benefit of better accelleration because this will reduce the tendency of the tire from blowing loose.

I will report back when my sprocket arrives and I install yet another controller. :?

Matt
 
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