sound system for velomobile - help needed

[wojtek]

hi guys,

i got JVC KD-R521E car radio available, as well as the car anteena that came with my second hand velomobile.
Unfortunately i have no experience with car radios and car sound systems so would highly appreciate your help...

No idea what speakers would be the best... I want decent sound quality. Also speaker that would go well with this radio without any additional amplifier if possible.

I would like to be able to listen to radio / music while riding but also be able to use it with open cabin when going to outdoor parties ect..

I found some surface mount speakers and also flush mount speakers but wondering what is the best solution for this untypical "car setup". Especially what speakers specs should i be looking for? any help much appreciated!

Does is have to be 20W speakers to match radios RMS of 4x 20W?
Do i have to build a case for flush mounted speakers?

ps weight is important but not thaaat much as i will be running the velomobile with a very powerful motor


Technical Details

Product Description: JVC KD R521E - radio / CD / MP3 player / digital player
Product Type: Radio / CD / MP3 player / digital player
Dimensions (WxDxH): 18.2 cm x 15.9 cm x 5.2 cm
Weight: 1.21 kg
Form Factor: Full-DIN - in-dash unit
Sound Output Mode: Stereo
Equaliser: Parametric - 3-band
Response Bandwidth: 40 - 20000 Hz
Max Output Power / Channel Qty: 50 Watts x 4
Amplifier Output details: 20 Watt - 4 Ohm - THD 1.0% - 4 channel(s)
Radio: Radio tuner - FM/MW/LW - 24 preset stations
CD System: CD / MP3 player - 5 - 20000 Hz
Digital Player (Recorder): Digital player

 

[Dee Jay]

dood,

car stereo on a bike?
View attachment 1
For a little over 100 bucks you can get a Bluetooth speakers/media player w/ FM radio combo by Creative. The speakers take 4 AA batteries. To boost the speakers volume, check its AC adapter for max voltage (which should be more than 4 AA’s) and just rig up extra batteries to get max volume/watts!

If you want a louder sound system, you can use old PC speakers with a subwoofer and build rechargeable battery packs for its rated wattage. Plug that media player/radio to it and you’re good to go! 8)

 

[StudEbiker]

Even simpler and cheaper is one of these: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-rechargeable-mini-portable-speaker-w-tf-slot-red-3-5mm-dc-5v-44911

A local business here in town uses this for their ambient music. I am very impressed with the amount of pretty decent quality sound it produces. No batteries, no moving parts, hard to beat that. I plan on getting one for the Bike E.

 

[Dee Jay]

Even simpler and cheaper is one of these: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-rechargeable-mini-portable-speaker-w-tf-slot-red-3-5mm-dc-5v-44911

A local business here in town uses this for their ambient music. I am very impressed with the amount of pretty decent quality sound it produces. No batteries, no moving parts, hard to beat that. I plan on getting one for the Bike E.

Yeah those sound decent but I’m not too keen on built-in batteries tho… I like the ability to change out batteries for I MUST have music at all times. that’s just how much I love listening to music while cruising on the ebike

For my JBL On Tour pc speakers, I got 5 cells AAA NiMH pack (normally 4 cells), which is a custom external pack that plugs to the speaker’s AC power receptacle, that way I can change batteries with spare AAA alkaline cells without having to open the speakers battery compartment. 8)

 

[mrzed]

If you have the funding, the sweet solution has to be

Then you can run just about any speakers you want off main battery power.

 

[Dee Jay]

Then you can run just about any speakers you want off main battery power.

NICE!

But man, you gotta haul around a minimum of 24v pack… or two, depending on your trip distance

That be a Crystalyte amp??

Would be nice to ROCK OUT on critical mash rides!

[youtube]qnMaSLCDxQc[/youtube]

 

[AussieJester]

Would be nice to ROCK OUT on critical mash rides!

Nope not at all, i much prefer to be alert and focused on my riding and the surrounding traffic not
have my ears blasted with music... jm2c

KiM

 

[Dee Jay]

Would be nice to ROCK OUT on critical mash rides!

Nope not at all, i much prefer to be alert and focused on my riding and the surrounding traffic not
have my ears blasted with music... jm2c

KiM

No different from blasting your car sound system and cruising downtown.

Never been to a critical mass cos I’m not religious *rim-shot* besides, it seems they don’t ride dangerously fast. You’ll be fine especially if you’re riding inside that mass cos cars will see everyone riding past.

And quite a few bikes at CM rock sound systems! 8) 8) 8)

[youtube]FuCm5bGLa58[/youtube]

[youtube]jIYkS9lqNd8[/youtube]

Rockin the Clash..
[youtube]BkAQyw6Spf4[/youtube]

Sweet ride! But sub should be facing straight down to the pavement
[youtube]LKn4JgyXnP8[/youtube]

 

[Erogo]

But if you wanna use the car stereo head unit you already have (and hell, why not), then the speakers to go with it should be enclosed in cabinets. That goes for any drivers probably, but yeah, if you buy car speakers (and it's the impedance that should be matched, power is probabably less important, so long as your speakers can handle more than what the amplifier can deliver), then those car speakers should be mounted up into an enclosure. i think the textbook theory for the car speakers is that they should be mounted in an "infinite baffle", but if you dont have one of those handy, then the guts of it is that the bigger the enclosure, the better they're gonna sound. (Yes yes audiophiles, I know there's a lot more to it than that - tuned enclosures, bass ports, internal damping material etc), but roughly speaking, if you can build a bigger box, itll sound better than a tiny little box holding the same speaker. It's also good if they can be real rigid, so good rigid plywood is excellent speaker-building material.

Eric

 

[Dee Jay]

But if you wanna use the car stereo head unit you already have (and hell, why not), then the speakers to go with it should be enclosed in cabinets. That goes for any drivers probably, but yeah, if you buy car speakers (and it's the impedance that should be matched, power is probabably less important, so long as your speakers can handle more than what the amplifier can deliver), then those car speakers should be mounted up into an enclosure. i think the textbook theory for the car speakers is that they should be mounted in an "infinite baffle", but if you dont have one of those handy, then the guts of it is that the bigger the enclosure, the better they're gonna sound. (Yes yes audiophiles, I know there's a lot more to it than that - tuned enclosures, bass ports, internal damping material etc), but roughly speaking, if you can build a bigger box, itll sound better than a tiny little box holding the same speaker. It's also good if they can be real rigid, so good rigid plywood is excellent speaker-building material.

Eric

Car stereo, plywood cabinets, big speaker magnets, batteries etc… all that weight can add up. you can’t possibly expect audiophile quality on a bike. Just sayin’

 

[wojtek]

many thanks to ALL of you for the input!!!

1. i hate the idea of heavy and bulky car stereo BUT for 70EUR i get
- radio
- MP3 / CD player
- input for my existing antenna
- USB / jack
- inbuilt amplifier [4x20w, 200w max]
So all i need is speakers.. Building the right enclosure for flush mount speakers might be a pain, not sure how to make it right to get the best of the sound.
There are some surface mount speakers on the market like Pioneer TS X150 but again they are heavy and bulky.
http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/products/25/131/201/TS-X150/specs.html

2. The ebikes.ca amplifier is great - so small, quite powerful and i can plug to my main battery [well i may go for 88v battery pack in which case it won't work easily. But the price is a deal killer i guess..

3. Creative Zen M300 looks good - but is there an anteena plug i could use my car anteena [will need an adapter] (cant find this info on their website but i guess not) ? - is there any other player that could be plugged to the anteena? This option is quite good too.

4. I am not going to listen to max volume music while im riding. It is more for outdoor parties or for cruizing around in non trafic places

5. Thanks Erogo for the very technical information - very helpful!
I checked youtube but most of the videos are for subwoofer boxes. This one however:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDmodPCunww&feature=related

I don't quite have the tools required for those! but what i could try to do, is just a square box out of wood. It is good idea as i could shape it to the measurements of the velomobile..

6. Velomobile as such is not the best place for music quality. Even with best speakers and players, the sound might not be great at all.
I could cover the interior with a special lightweight sound enhancing material?

 

[Erogo]

No you won't get audiophile quality, sure, but for cranking outdoor parties, wouldn't you need more than the creAtive zen? Forgive me I didn't check it's specs, but - running off AA cells? How many parties have you been to that ran off AA cells??! Nah, the 4x20w car stereo is sweet. No need to go to the ebikes amp if you've already got a car stereo.

Hey deejay, I gotta send you some pics of my homebuild ghettoblasters some time

wojtek - cabinets built to fit the velomobile sounds perfect to me. And apparently a synthetic duvet (eiderdown, quilt, doona?) is good for internal damping material.

If you search the googles too long you'll end up with mathematical formulas for your speaker boxes, which'll put you right off building anything! Just go for it!

Oh also, if you only use two speaker drivers, you might be able to power each with two outputs of the stereo (2x20w each).

E

 

[wojtek]

GREAT! i may need more of your help to build them though

What speakers would you recommend?

i was again googling and found this review of best car speakers 2011:

http://car-speakers-review.toptenreviews.com/

but these are the larger ones..

Creative Zen solution is great for its compact size and lightweight. But may not be enough juice / quality unless i spend like really a lot of money.

No you won't get audiophile quality, sure, but for cranking outdoor parties, wouldn't you need more than the creAtive zen? Forgive me I didn't check it's specs, but - running off AA cells? How many parties have you been to that ran off AA cells??! Nah, the 4x20w car stereo is sweet. No need to go to the ebikes amp if you've already got a car stereo.

Hey deejay, I gotta send you some pics of my homebuild ghettoblasters some time

wojtek - cabinets built to fit the velomobile sounds perfect to me. And apparently a synthetic duvet (eiderdown, quilt, doona?) is good for internal damping material.

If you search the googles too long you'll end up with mathematical formulas for your speaker boxes, which'll put you right off building anything! Just go for it!

Oh also, if you only use two speaker drivers, you might be able to power each with two outputs of the stereo (2x20w each).

E

 

[Dee Jay]

No you won't get audiophile quality, sure, but for cranking outdoor parties, wouldn't you need more than the creAtive zen? Forgive me I didn't check it's specs, but - running off AA cells? How many parties have you been to that ran off AA cells??! Nah, the 4x20w car stereo is sweet. No need to go to the ebikes amp if you've already got a car stereo.

Hey deejay, I gotta send you some pics of my homebuild ghettoblasters some time

Yeah for special occasions such as Critical Mass or stationary outdoor parties, I would go for power and quality. In fact, I would recruit other ebikers to hook up a compatible Bluetooth receiver on their systems to receive my stereo DJ transmissions, you can’t expect to rock a party all by you’re lonesome. But it will require a long range stereo transmitter on your part. Don’t know about the latency, tho…

I’m very interested in your setup! Please start a whole new thread and show us what you got! 8) 8) 8)

 

[dogman dan]

Look at motorcycle stuff. I'm sure they have speakers designed to be in the weather that are made for installing in full dress fairings. Big touring motorcycles often have car radios installed in the fairing. Often the helmets have speakers so maybe not so common now as I think. I definitely remember big hondas with speakers in the fairing years ago.
There may be such speakers for use in topless cars, like Jeeps.

The other altenative, weather resistant speakers for outdoor use, often in enclosures that look like a rock.

But what I'd be doing is finding a boom box cheap, snagging the speakers out of it and mcyguyvering some kind of speaker box for it. When they go bad, snag another 10 buck used boombox. Build the box so the speakers are buried inside dry, then the sound bounces around corners to the exit hole. Long as it doesn't buzz, the box could be made out of coroplast or whatever.

The same thing could be done with a decent pair of car speakers, say the 4"-5" kind.

 

[wojtek]

hi Dogman,

thanks for your advice

The speakers will be inside the covered velomobile so there is no risk of water going inside. One problem less
So the speakers dont have to be waterproof.

i just need to find space for batteries, controller, radio, speakers ect inside!

 

[marty]

x

3. Creative Zen M300 looks good - but is there an anteena plug i could use my car anteena [will need an adapter] (cant find this info on their website but i guess not) ? - is there any other player that could be plugged to the anteena? This option is quite good too.

x

Most of those portable music players use the earphone / speaker wire for the antenna. I have been listening to HD radio. No static like regular radio. Also some stations have HD.1, HD.2, HD.3 Not sure how the reception would be in a moving vehicle?

I am happy with Insignia™ HD Radio Portable Player Model: NS-HD01 about $20 with shipping on eBay for new in open boxes. Power is USB Mini B, 5 volts.

Go here to see what I learned about Music Storage and Playing Equipment
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27568

I say forget about your car radio and CDs. One little gismo can hold hundreds of CDs in MP3 format.

 

[wojtek]

i looked into the car speakers. it seems that a pair of 6*9 speakers with a MDF cabinets would be around 4.5kg...

That is crazy

 

[marty]

Get some [usb powered computer speakers] and a portable music player and you will be happy. If you want to get really loud? Buy the ebike.ca 50W stereo output e-bike audio amplifier and some good quality small car speakers.

Run the USB stuff with a 5V - DC/DC converter on your bike battery.

 

[wojtek]

if i go the lightweight option, these seem to be the winner!
Soundmatters foxLv2
http://www.soundmatters.com/foxl/technology.html

 

[REdiculous]

I'd sell the car stereo and get a decent little boombox. Add a DC-DC converter and wire up a plug so you can use the main battery pack and you'd be good to go for a crazy number of hours.

 

[marty]

All your music equipment needs power usually 5V or 12V DC. No one believes that you can run most of these 120V AC adapters, off your DC bicycle battery. It does work. I tested a bunch of them with my 48V battery. They all worked. Look what Fechter figured out.
Cheap DC-DC converters for over 60v input.

USB TRAVEL CHARGER
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-223/USB-TRAVEL-CHARGER/1.html
I don't know if this adapter will have enough amps for what you want to do? Need to ask the electricity experts that.

 

[Erogo]

Yo Deej etc, I put a post of my boom boxes at http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16695 note they're not bicycle mounted, but thought they warranted crossreference. The T-class tripath amp I used in one of them would be another good option I reckon.

E

 

[Dee Jay]

All your music equipment needs power usually 5V or 12V DC. No one believes that you can run most of these 120V AC adapters, off your DC bicycle battery. It does work. I tested a bunch of them with my 48V battery. They all worked. Look what Fechter figured out.
Cheap DC-DC converters for over 60v input.

Thanks for the tip marty!

I generally dislike the idea of tapping power off my bike pack and would rather build a dedicated pack for speakers but after seeing this 12v bluetooth speaker SuperTooth DISCO Bluetooth I just might give this switching PS a try .



SuperTooth DISCO Bluetooth is 12v/12 watts. My JBL speaker is about 7+ watts and still wired. I really should go bluetooth and get a little more power..mmm

 

[wojtek]

great find!

how does it compare to logitech s715i? [i dont care that much about bluetooth..

http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/speakers-audio/ipod-mp3-speakers/devices/7209

Now im thinking between the disco and s715i but it is hard to find full specs for either of them