Speed Issues with Luna Cycle ebike 1000w Hub Motor Kit

[GMRedline]

Hello everyone,

I'm having an issue with the output of the ebike Hub Motor Kit I bought from Luna Cycle. I would provide a link to the product but it appears they have recently removed it from their website. Basically it claims to be the same kit sold by ebikekit.com but at a much lower price. Here is a link to that product.

http://www.ebikekit.com/electric-bicycle-kit/electric-bike-conversion-kit/electric-bike-kits/rear-500w-geared-motor-kit/

I have the kit installed on my bicycle and I'm using a 4ah 36v/40v powertool battery for testing. The battery is designed to run high output electric chainsaws and movers. The battery is brand new. With the 36v battery I'm not getting near the advertised speed under zero load.

My fear is that once I get the bicycle on the road, the actual speed is going to be much lower. With a 36v battery I was told to expect speeds of 20mph. I have plans to build a 52v battery as the final solution for the bike but my fear is that the performance is going to be very underwhelming. With a 52v battery, I was told to expect speeds of 30mph which would be more than enough for what I need. Honestly, 25mph should be fine.

Do you think a 52v battery will give me the output I'm looking for?

Is there anything else I can do to troubleshoot this setup? I've contacted Luna Support and they said the battery I'm using isn't adequate for testing which I don't believe is true. These battery packs are built usinghigh quality high output 20ah cells. I've also tried running 3 2ah 36v/40v in parallel to build a 6ah battery and I got the same results.

Here are some pics for reference.



Battery hooked up.



Battery Voltage



Controller Reading at full assist and Zero load



Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jon NCal]

http://lunacycle.com/motors/geared-hub-motor-kit-1000w-front-rear/

I was looking at it also and they say it is 48/52V, but don't mention anything about 36V compatible.

Maybe you could borrow a 48V or 52V ebike battery for further testing.

 

[wesnewell]

Did you mean this kit?
http://lunacycle.com/motors/geared-hub-motor-kit-1000w-front-rear/
It's probably not a 1000W rated motor. Probably somewhere between 350-500W with 1000W peak rating. Any pf these would have been a much better choice imo.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=48v1000w%20rear&LH_PrefLoc=1&rt=nc&LH_FS=1

 

[docw009]

Could it be that the test battery doesn't supply enough current?

 

[Jon NCal]

Normally, testing the motor only needs about 60W of power, no load, full throttle.

 

[amberwolf]

What wheel size is set in the unit's display? (assuming it has a way to do that--wrong wheel size would show wrong speed.

Is that battery voltage shown on the meter what you see while running the motor, as well, or just with it hooked up not spinning?


Is it possible there is a speed limiter set in the controller/display? 15.5mph is about 25km/h, which happens to be a round enough number to make me think of speed limiters.

 

[dogman dan]

Looks the same as E-Bikekit stuff on the outside. It not the same, just similar.

But your display has the same setup features, and most likely you have not set up the display right. Wrong wheel size, or wrong motor type. So the speedo is waaaaay off.

He's in assist level 5, so the limiter is not doing it. Go through the setup of the display again, and you should see more than 20 mph no load. Even on that lame battery.

 

[GMRedline]

http://lunacycle.com/motors/geared-hub-motor-kit-1000w-front-rear/

I was looking at it also and they say it is 48/52V, but don't mention anything about 36V compatible.

Maybe you could borrow a 48V or 52V ebike battery for further testing.

I stopped at my local bike shop. They sell high end ebikes but nothing with a battery that would easily hook up for testing.

I haven't ruled that out yet.

 

[GMRedline]

Did you mean this kit?
http://lunacycle.com/motors/geared-hub-motor-kit-1000w-front-rear/
It's probably not a 1000W rated motor. Probably somewhere between 350-500W with 1000W peak rating. Any pf these would have been a much better choice imo.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=48v1000w%20rear&LH_PrefLoc=1&rt=nc&LH_FS=1

Yes. That wpuld be the kit if the link worked.

I thought I did enough research on Luna Cycle to not get burned. People rave about their battery packs. I did some research on their forum and everything seemed on the up and up.

 

[GMRedline]

Could it be that the test battery doesn't supply enough current?

Normally, testing the motor only needs about 60W of power, no load, full throttle.

Right. I shouldn't need a huge battery for testing under zero load.

 

[GMRedline]

What wheel size is set in the unit's display? (assuming it has a way to do that--wrong wheel size would show wrong speed.

Is that battery voltage shown on the meter what you see while running the motor, as well, or just with it hooked up not spinning?


Is it possible there is a speed limiter set in the controller/display? 15.5mph is about 25km/h, which happens to be a round enough number to make me think of speed limiters.

It's a 26" wheel set to MPH. The only "settings" I can find on the controller is MPH/KMH. I didn't get any instructions with the kit.

The battery voltage is just the battery with no load. I understand the voltage will drop with the wheel spinning but it shouldn't be that much. The battery is brand new and healthy.

It shouldn't be limited but it's something I will look into.

 

[GMRedline]

Looks the same as E-Bikekit stuff on the outside. It not the same, just similar.

But your display has the same setup features, and most likely you have not set up the display right. Wrong wheel size, or wrong motor type. So the speedo is waaaaay off.

He's in assist level 5, so the limiter is not doing it. Go through the setup of the display again, and you should see more than 20 mph no load. Even on that lame battery.

Thats what I'm hoping for. I should have some time to mess with it tonight. It's finally nice enough where I can take it for a ride. I will compare the display speed to the GPS speed on my phone.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

 

[aroundqube]

From the E-BikeKit LCD QuickStart Guide ; Step 1 Turn on - Press the red power button . Step 2 Set Motor Type - 500w Direct-Drive Motor = 46 , 350w Geared Motor = 84 1. Hold the Up arrow and SET button simultaneously for 3 seconds 2. Use Up and Down arrows to locate motor type 3. Save the setting by holding the Up Arrow and SET buttons again for 3 seconds **Disregard the other numbers, they are for unavailable motors . Step 3 Set Wheel Size - 1. Hold the up arrow and down arrow simultaneously for 3 seconds 2. Use up and down arrows to locate wheel size . 3. Save the setting by holding the Up and Down arrows again for 3 seconds . **Note: 28 is the setting for 700c and 29er wheels Step 4 Set battery voltage 1. Hold the Up and Down arrows and Red Power Button simultaneously for 3 seconds 2. Use Up and Down arrows to locate battery voltage . 3. Save the setting by holding the Up and Down arrows and Red Power Button again for 3 seconds . ** Note: Disregard 24 as the kit is not compatible with 24 volts . Step 5 Switch Display to "ODO" 1. Hold the Set button for 3 seconds. 2. This will switch the display between "ODO" and "TRIP" - check that it is set on "ODO" Step 6 Clear Odometer 1. Hold the Up arrow for 3 seconds. 2. The Odometer and Trip will both reset to 0 Additional Commands - Assist Level , quick press Up or Down arrows . Clear Trip -- 1. Hold the Set button for 3 seconds to switch to "ODO" 2. Hold the Down arrow for 3 seconds . Backlight: Quick press Red Power Button . Headlight: Pressing Set will highlight a headlight. This is non-functioning. Press Set again to hide. Current: the flow of electricity. This shows how hard your kit is working . Turn system off- hold the Red Power Button for 3 seconds .

 

[Rodney64]

Why are you testing with 36 volt battery when the kit that you purchased was was quoted a speed using 48 to 52 volt, if you read E-BikeKits specs any battery is acceptable, as long as the voltage is 36v or 48v AND the battery is capable of 22Amp continuous discharge. the lower the voltage will mean a lower speed. I just dont understand. At least test first with the correct voltage battery that can deliver the correct Amp continuous discharge. Also check the speed with a GPS. And why didn't you just buy a battery from Luna cycle, or did you plan on using these power tool batteries to power the bike.


By the looks of that battery its more than likely a 10s2p pack and if the cells were rated at 5c continuous then this pack at the most would only deliver 10c.

 

[Ykick]

If properly calibrated and MPH selected, 15MPH does seem a little slow for setup like this on 40V.

What does the battery pack voltage do when you apply power to the motor? Does it drop significantly? Is it spinning smoothly? And verify no poor connections between the motor-controller? Again, check for significant voltage drop across the test battery when doing a free-air spin up?

If there is, might be time to look into exactly how much current is being drawn during free spin which might lead to revealing Phase/Hall timing issue?

btw, always a good idea to do screen captures of listing descriptions (there's probably cached pages somewhere?) because inventory changes and items get removed/added frequently.

 

[GMRedline]

Why are you testing with 36 volt battery when the kit that you purchased was was quoted a speed using 48 to 52 volt, if you read E-BikeKits specs any battery is acceptable, as long as the voltage is 36v or 48v AND the battery is capable of 22Amp continuous discharge. the lower the voltage will mean a lower speed. I just dont understand. At least test first with the correct voltage battery that can deliver the correct Amp continuous discharge. Also check the speed with a GPS. And why didn't you just buy a battery from Luna cycle, or did you plan on using these power tool batteries to power the bike.


By the looks of that battery its more than likely a 10s2p pack and if the cells were rated at 5c continuous then this pack at the most would only deliver 10c.

36v is what I had. ebikekits states speeds of 20mph with a 36v battery so that's what I'm using as my baseline. Yes a 48v/52v battery is recommend and I'm in the process of building on with reclaimed laptop batteries. It's a long process...

I'm not 100% sure about the specific cells in the 4ah battery pictured in the photo. The cells in the 40v compact 2ah battery are Sanyo UR18650RX cells with a max discharge of 20amps built in a 10s1p configuration. It would be safe to assume that the cells in the 4ah battery in a 10s2p configuration would meet or slightly exceed the output of the compact battery.

 

[GMRedline]

From the E-BikeKit LCD QuickStart Guide ; Step 1 Turn on - Press the red power button . Step 2 Set Motor Type - 500w Direct-Drive Motor = 46 , 350w Geared Motor = 84 1. Hold the Up arrow and SET button simultaneously for 3 seconds 2. Use Up and Down arrows to locate motor type 3. Save the setting by holding the Up Arrow and SET buttons again for 3 seconds **Disregard the other numbers, they are for unavailable motors . Step 3 Set Wheel Size - 1. Hold the up arrow and down arrow simultaneously for 3 seconds 2. Use up and down arrows to locate wheel size . 3. Save the setting by holding the Up and Down arrows again for 3 seconds . **Note: 28 is the setting for 700c and 29er wheels Step 4 Set battery voltage 1. Hold the Up and Down arrows and Red Power Button simultaneously for 3 seconds 2. Use Up and Down arrows to locate battery voltage . 3. Save the setting by holding the Up and Down arrows and Red Power Button again for 3 seconds . ** Note: Disregard 24 as the kit is not compatible with 24 volts . Step 5 Switch Display to "ODO" 1. Hold the Set button for 3 seconds. 2. This will switch the display between "ODO" and "TRIP" - check that it is set on "ODO" Step 6 Clear Odometer 1. Hold the Up arrow for 3 seconds. 2. The Odometer and Trip will both reset to 0 Additional Commands - Assist Level , quick press Up or Down arrows . Clear Trip -- 1. Hold the Set button for 3 seconds to switch to "ODO" 2. Hold the Down arrow for 3 seconds . Backlight: Quick press Red Power Button . Headlight: Pressing Set will highlight a headlight. This is non-functioning. Press Set again to hide. Current: the flow of electricity. This shows how hard your kit is working . Turn system off- hold the Red Power Button for 3 seconds .

Thank you!

 

[GMRedline]

btw, always a good idea to do screen captures of listing descriptions (there's probably cached pages somewhere?) because inventory changes and items get removed/added frequently.

The web wayback machine can show me the motor conversion kit options page from the site from the time I ordered.



The one I purchased was the "Ebike Kit 1000w Waterproof connectors Hub Motor Conversion". Who knows what I actually got?

 

[Jon NCal]

Okay, that "waterproof connector" 1000W is a direct drive motor, which is different from the geared motor we have been assuming it is.

 

[999zip999]

Try a real battery. Baby battery baby resluts. Used worn out laptop cells for a battery, a laptop seats on the table you seat on ebike. Table goes nowhere ebike goes up hill with your weight on top. Save time save money buy a good battery. It's like buying your gasoline for 4 years, but all at once. No cheaper then cheap way out. Say Yugo. Pay for it - ride enjoy. 52v over 10ah. Get great new cells.
Where you from ?
I was showing my bike to pedago 80v 80a he asked me to pick up the rear wheel and twist the throttle. I don't like to play with it in a crowd. But twisted the throttle was surprised how slow it wound out. It goes 43mph 6400 watts. I mean if I let him get on it and giving him 6,400 watts to an unknown. Wait for a test ride on something else.

 

[dogman dan]

Again, since it's not the same as an E bikekit, I can't say what they programmed the controller and display to do. Perhaps they did the setup of the display, but got the motor type wrong.

The manual for E bike kit might be helpful, or not. If you can get into the motor code setup menu, and find some options, then experiment with them. it should run with any of them, but the speedo will only be close to right with one of them.

My best guess is its running just fine no load, but displaying the wrong speed. The motor will run fine using any motor code, since all are still 3 phase motors.

If it really is running 15 mph (by gps or separate speedo) on 36v, with a better battery, then the issue is that it's low rpm 6x9 winding motor. I thought Luna was selling the usual 9x7 motor, but really,, I have no Idea what wind motor you have, how the controller is programmed, etc.

All we ( Electric Bike Technologies) know is the wiring harness is the same, display is in the same box, and whatever controller it is, is in the same controller box.

Like I said, it looks the same on the outside.

 

[Eteck]

Is there anything else I can do to troubleshoot this setup?

Somehow make sure the speedometer is accurate.

a) Move the wheel and it to another bike and ride exactly one mile.
b) Good time to purchase a $10 spare and then cross reference the two.

 

[dogman dan]

Yes, a regular bike speedo is cheap, and easily calibrated so you can check one against the other.

I'm still convinced you likely are getting full speed. The wrong motor code programmed won't affect speed. But it could still be a battery issue, as Luna says, for speed under load. For no load speed, likely even the weaker battery would still reach full speed no load.

 

[GMRedline]

Okay!

Sorry for the delay in response. I've been pretty busy over the past few weeks. I finally got a change to do some more testing on my ebike kit with the 36v battery.

First off, I went through the setup instructions for LCD Display. The only thing that was different was the setting for the motor size. My display only had options for 1 though 5. As I dropped down the levels, the speed on the display decreased.

Here are my results.

With no weight on the bike and the rear wheel spinning freely, the display reads 17mph. While riding the display reads between 12-14mph depending on wind direction.

According to the GPS on my phone, I'm actually traveling between 21-23mph. Which I believe is to be accurate because it feels like I'm going faster than 12-14mph.

I tried almost every configuration of the display and I can't get it to match my actual speed. As I change the tire size smaller, the speed on the display decreases. There is an option for '70' but that will push the display over 30mph when the GPS says 22mph.

So the good news is that the kit is performing like it should. The bad new is that I can't get the display configured correctly.

I didn't try changing the Motor Type with the 70 Wheel Size setting. Not only did lowing the Motor Type setting decrease the speed on the display I believe it was also decreasing the performance of the motor.

Does anyone have any input?

Again, I appreciate everyone's help on my issues.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Set your display to kph and try the tire size exercise with the GPS again. In my case I found a tire size that read within .1mph of the GPS even though the display was set to kph. I just ignore the little kph next to the speed number.