Speedometer cuts out.

[pessemist]

I have an ecoE 5k watt AWD. I essentially got swindled on the specs of this ebike. After negotiating with the seller, I kept the bike.

I tore out the fisplay, both controllers, wiring harness and replaced them with same from a Philodo Jumbo. All new.

The problem is the speedometer routinely cuts out after about two or three blocks of travel. Just drops to zero.

After sitting unpowered for awhile, the speedometer starts working normally but, again, cuts off after 2-3 blocks of riding.

Everything else works perfectly.

I’m at my wits end. The following remedies were tried which did not help:

1). Swapped in a new rear controller
2) New cable from rear controller to rear motor
3) Tried several magnet count changes in display
4) Reset Display.
5) tried another battery.

Any suggestions from the gurus here? I’m thinking maybe a display programming setting is wrong, the display is defective, or an internal motor issue?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Doug.

 

[E-HP]

When the speedo is working, does it register speed while coasting?

 

[amberwolf]

If the speedo runs off a hall sensor inside a motor, and that sensor gets too hot, it will stop outputting a valid signal so the speedo would not have a valid reading.

How hot do the motors get?

(an incorrect phase/hall wiring combination, or a failed "autolearn", can cause a motor to "work" but run hot even under minimal load)



Can you use an external frame-mounted speed sensor, like these?

CA_Speedo

Speedometer Sensor for converting CA3s to read speed signals from wheels instead of motors - New small form factor version!

ebikes.ca

 

[Chalo]

How do I fix this problem? Don't have a speedometer, that's how. It can't fail if it isn't there.

 

[pessemist]

If you don’t know, don’t post.

 

[pessemist]

If the speedo runs off a hall sensor inside a motor, and that sensor gets too hot, it will stop outputting a valid signal so the speedo would not have a valid reading.

How hot do the motors get?

(an incorrect phase/hall wiring combination, or a failed "autolearn", can cause a motor to "work" but run hot even under minimal load)



Can you use an external frame-mounted speed sensor, like these?

CA_Speedo

Speedometer Sensor for converting CA3s to read speed signals from wheels instead of motors - New small form factor version!

ebikes.ca

Hmm, It’s a new controller with the motor. The wiring is standard colors. (6pin hall sensor plug).

I’ll check motor temp right after Speedo cuts out next. Motor seems to run fine even though Speedo cuts out. Wires don’t seem distorted by heat. Battery is only a 40amp.

 

[pessemist]

When the speedo is working, does it register speed while coasting?

Yes. I am watching it and as I am cruising it drops to zero after 2 blocks. Does not recover until power is off for awhile.

 

[pessemist]

I have an ecoE 5k watt AWD. I essentially got swindled on the specs of this ebike. After negotiating with the seller, I kept the bike.

I tore out the fisplay, both controllers, wiring harness and replaced them with same from a Philodo Jumbo. All new.

The problem is the speedometer routinely cuts out after about two or three blocks of travel. Just drops to zero.

After sitting unpowered for awhile, the speedometer starts working normally but, again, cuts off after 2-3 blocks of riding.

Everything else works perfectly.

I’m at my wits end. The following remedies were tried which did not help:

1). Swapped in a new rear controller
2) New cable from rear controller to rear motor
3) Tried several magnet count changes in display
4) Reset Display.
5) tried another battery.

Any suggestions from the gurus here? I’m thinking maybe a display programming setting is wrong, the display is defective, or an internal motor issue?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Doug.

New information. I just did some testing and found something interesting.

When the speedometer is working, PAS 2 permits unlimited speed. But PAS 3, 4,5 are speed limited as expected. Only PAS 2 appears unlimited.

I checked the motor by feel just after the Speedo shut down. It does not appear hot or even warm to touch. Feels normal temp.

 

[amberwolf]

Hmm, It’s a new controller with the motor. The wiring is standard colors. (6pin hall sensor plug).

FWIW, there isnt' any real "standard", and it's not uncommon to require mismatched colors between motor and controller to operate correctly. That's one reason some controllers have a learn function...but even that function doesn't work every time.

I’ll check motor temp right after Speedo cuts out next. Motor seems to run fine even though Speedo cuts out. Wires don’t seem distorted by heat. Battery is only a 40amp.

Wires may not be affected, because the heat is still inside the motor at the point the halls can stop working right--the casing may not even feel hot yet if the motor is heating really rapidly (like from a false positive combo). If the controller is dual-mode, sensorless, or can do sensorless fallback, the motor will continue to operate normally even when the sensors don't work.

 

[amberwolf]

When the speedometer is working, PAS 2 permits unlimited speed. But PAS 3, 4,5 are speed limited as expected. Only PAS 2 appears unlimited.

That's pretty wierd. I've never seen a PAS system with unlimited anything on a "middle" level--on one on either end of the list, yes, but not like this.

You'd have to check the manual for the controller/display pair to see what it's supposed to be doing, or if there are specific settings for each PAS mode to allow or disallow this.

If the display didn't come with the controller, they might have incompatible firmware that lets them work togehter but have wierd things happen because they don't know how to interpret some of the data being sent back and forth. For instance, the controller might interpret the display's "PAS2" being activated to mean PAS (max level) instead, and it could even have a different number of levels vs the display (that you can't know about because the display doesn't know what they are or how to interpret any data on that sent from the controller). Could even be the cause of the speedo issue--some timeout occuring.

 

[pessemist]

When the speedo is working, does it register speed while coasting?

Yes

 

[pessemist]

That's pretty wierd. I've never seen a PAS system with unlimited anything on a "middle" level--on one on either end of the list, yes, but not like this.

You'd have to check the manual for the controller/display pair to see what it's supposed to be doing, or if there are specific settings for each PAS mode to allow or disallow this.

If the display didn't come with the controller, they might have incompatible firmware that lets them work togehter but have wierd things happen because they don't know how to interpret some of the data being sent back and forth. For instance, the controller might interpret the display's "PAS2" being activated to mean PAS (max level) instead, and it could even have a different number of levels vs the display (that you can't know about because the display doesn't know what they are or how to interpret any data on that sent from the controller). Could even be the cause of the speedo issue--some timeout occuring.

 

[pessemist]

I think you are on to something. I just ran bike until speedometer cut out again. Then I parked it and left power on for about half hour.

Even with power left on, the speedometer started working again. It seems likely your speculation about heat or timeout.

Not sure how to diagnose this. I have a 34 mile ride this Saturday. I figure if the motor is going to get hot, it’ll do it on this ride. So far I’ve done 8 mile rides and just ignore the speedometer when it goes out. Motor still works fine. I’ll check its temp after that really long ride.

The controller is matched to the display and the wiring harness. The only mismatch is the motor and controller.

The controller does have a male Z910 pigtail out to the motors. The motors has a male L915 end. A 12” conversion cable (Z910 female to L915 femsle) connects controller pigtail and runs back to motor.

 

[Chalo]

If you don’t know, don’t post.

I know this stuff from decades of building e-bikes. I just don't build them anymore with unnecessary parts that cause problems.

I took the KT controller with display off of my daily driver cargo e-bike a few weeks ago, in favor of a three mode controller with no display-- only an on/off switch and a throttle. I'm very happy with the upgrade. That's the format I'm using now for used e-bike rebuilds and e-bike conversions at the community bike shop where I work.

You can futz around with things that don't make your bike go if it pleases you. Knock yourself out. May I suggest onboard GPS navigation and Bluetooth audio with reactive LED lights? I'm sure you can find all kinds of unnecessary problems to solve. Me, I'd rather use a bike of 10X better mechanical quality than yours, with 10X fewer electrical points of failure.

 

[amberwolf]

I think you are on to something. I just ran bike until speedometer cut out again. Then I parked it and left power on for about half hour.

Even with power left on, the speedometer started working again. It seems likely your speculation about heat or timeout.

Heat's easy to check--measure the motor casing temperature before you start a ride, when it's been sitting for hours. Ride doens't have be long--just long enough to see the problem happen. Measure after the ride is over; it can take a while for motor heat to migrate to the case. A DD hub does it faster than a geared hub (less layers to go thru). At least 10 minutes, probably more like 20+.

A hand check with the back of your hand will give you a rough idea if it's getting hot or not, but if it's black or you can put a black sticker or tape on a spot then you can use one of those cheap IR guns to get some actual numbers.

The controller is matched to the display and the wiring harness. The only mismatch is the motor and controller.

The controller does have a male Z910 pigtail out to the motors. The motors has a male L915 end. A 12” conversion cable (Z910 female to L915 femsle) connects controller pigtail and runs back to motor.

It's possible there's a phase/hall signal mismatch in there (and autolearn doesn't *always* work).

It's also possible there's a poor connection for whatever sensor it's using, so that it's getting enough unreliable data to trigger a fault that turns the speedo off.

DD hubmotors normally only have the actual stator halls to use for speed sensors, and are usually 23/46 pole. Geared hubs usually have a separate sensor with either 1 or 6 magnets on the inside of the cover, separate from the motor magnets. So a geared hub could have a sensor fault that doesn't affect motor operation, but a DD hub sensor fault would also affect motor position sensing.

 

[amberwolf]

Since you haven't posted what hardware is actually on the bike, I did a few seconds googling for the name provided in the first post. So if this is your bike then it has two geared hubmotors. (and ones like what i see there are not going to be anything like 5000w capable even for two, maybe 1000-1500w realistically)

That means heat buildup can be a problem, especially if your newer controllers are higher current limits than what came with them, and it also means that since you see speed readings when coasting, you're using the sensor that's on the case, not the motor sensors. (those wouldn't give a reading while coasting, as the motor isn't backdriven by the wheel). That eliminates a fair bit of possible overheating scenarios (unless they're overheating so fast that even the motor case is getting too hot to touch by the time the speedo issue shows itself).

That leaves connection faults as the most likely problem.

But it also means that you have two sensors on the bike already, and if you are willing to do some rewiring can change which sensor is connected to the controller/display, so you're using the one from the other motor instead.


If it's not what you have, then posting specific details of your hardware would help us help you better without as much guessing.

EcoE bikes - 5000W Dual Motor Electric Bike for Adults 28MPH with 60V 32AH Battery, 26×4 Fat Tire All Terrain Ebikes, Full Suspension E Bike, SHM 7-Speed Gear Electric Bicycle

Accessories: This electric bike accessory set includes a rearview mirror, water bottle holder and bottle, a sturdy phone mount, and a waterproof phone pouch. The reinforced cargo rack allows you to easily carry extra items needed for your ride. Additionally, if you need more accessories, you can...

www.ecoe.store

 

[pessemist]

Since you haven't posted what hardware is actually on the bike, I did a few seconds googling for the name provided in the first post. So if this is your bike then it has two geared hubmotors. (and ones like what i see there are not going to be anything like 5000w capable even for two, maybe 1000-1500w realistically)

That means heat buildup can be a problem, especially if your newer controllers are higher current limits than what came with them, and it also means that since you see speed readings when coasting, you're using the sensor that's on the case, not the motor sensors. (those wouldn't give a reading while coasting, as the motor isn't backdriven by the wheel). That eliminates a fair bit of possible overheating scenarios (unless they're overheating so fast that even the motor case is getting too hot to touch by the time the speedo issue shows itself).

That leaves connection faults as the most likely problem.

But it also means that you have two sensors on the bike already, and if you are willing to do some rewiring can change which sensor is connected to the controller/display, so you're using the one from the other motor instead.


If it's not what you have, then posting specific details of your hardware would help us help you better without as much guessing.

EcoE bikes - 5000W Dual Motor Electric Bike for Adults 28MPH with 60V 32AH Battery, 26×4 Fat Tire All Terrain Ebikes, Full Suspension E Bike, SHM 7-Speed Gear Electric Bicycle

Accessories: This electric bike accessory set includes a rearview mirror, water bottle holder and bottle, a sturdy phone mount, and a waterproof phone pouch. The reinforced cargo rack allows you to easily carry extra items needed for your ride. Additionally, if you need more accessories, you can...

www.ecoe.store

This was the original bike. It was falsely advertised.

I have replaced ALL the electronics with those of a Philodo Jumbo bike. The only original electrical equipment I Retained was the motors which, as you surmised, are likely 1k or 1.5k (not the 2.5k advertised.

The following is all Philodo Jumbo equipment I ordered from Philodo direct.

-Front & Back controllers
-Main wiring harness & secondary light/brake harness
Switches for horn/light
Display
New front/rear motor cables L915 to Z910

If it helps, I have attached pictures of rear controller and the only number I can find on the motor.

 

[docw009]

I could believe a bum hall sensor that wigs out as it warms up, and it doesn't have to get hot to do that.

Short term, run it off an external sensor and see if problem repeats. If it does, the problem is in the controller.