statorade vs statorade w/hubsinks

E-HP

10 GW
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After abusing my hub motor until it was too hot to touch, I started looking at whether I should add a little more Statorade. Per the recommendation, I originally added 8ml of the 10ml syringe. The recommendation also says up to 8ml for modest RPMs, and up to 12ml for higher RPMs, but that too much can cause drag (paraphrasing). My motor has modest RPMs, but don't know if 10ml would cause too much drag, but per their graphs, it looks like the incremental drag between 8ml and 10ml looks to be minimal. The graphs also show that the increase in heat conductivity between the two is even less.

I'm not really interested in adding hubsinks, but checked out what additional cooling might be gained by looking at the simulator. Using the MXUS 3005 as the example, since the simulator tests the motor, the motor with Statorade, and Statorade and hubsinks, it gives a good idea of the effect of each.

Adding Statorade alone provides a (dramatic) 48% improvement in shedding the heat. Statorade and hubsinks provides 53%, so 5% additional cooling relative to Statorade alone. The simulator doesn't model hubsinks alone, since that would only provide a negligible improvement, if any.

My conclusion is that it won't hurt (much) to add the additional 2ml of Statorade, and hubsinks aren't worth enough to do much for my case, so taming my throttle hand is probably the best solution, aside from adding a temp sensor to my motor. Anyone experience any downside to this?

Statorade, and Statorade plus hubsinks:
Statorade Sinks.jpg

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MX3005&batt=cust_72_0.05_24&cont=cust_70_200_0.03_V&hp=0&axis=mph&frame=mountain&autothrot=false&throt=100&grade=0&cont_b=cust_70_200_0.03_V&motor_b=MX3005_Sinks&batt_b=cust_72_0.05_24&hp_b=0&bopen=true
 
since that would only provide a negligible improvement, if any.

I do not believe this as being true.

I have alot of data that states otherwise and is much greater than your "5%" claim.

Fin equations could prove this wrong, pretty easy.

I wonder why they dont include it. ON the simulator. They do sell them.

I have significantly cooled a hub motor with sinks alone.

I have tabulated data on 1) no cooling, 2) fluid cooling, and 3) hubsink cooling, and4) hub sink/fluid coaling. Data.

I do not sell any of the ( overpriced) products though, so so I have no interest in seller claims.
 
DogDipstick said:
I have alot of data that states otherwise and is much greater than your "5%" claim.

I'm not making any claims. I'm looking at data. If you have other data, I'll look at it. If you have other conclusions from the data I'm looking at, then share.
 
E-HP said:
DogDipstick said:
I have alot of data that states otherwise and is much greater than your "5%" claim.

I'm not making any claims. I'm looking at data. If you have other data, I'll look at it. If you have other conclusions from the data I'm looking at, then share.

Hub sinks offer a significant path for conduction.
 
E-HP said:
After abusing my hub motor until it was too hot to touch, I started looking at whether I should add a little more Statorade. Per the recommendation, I originally added 8ml of the 10ml syringe. The recommendation also says up to 8ml for modest RPMs, and up to 12ml for higher RPMs, but that too much can cause drag (paraphrasing). My motor has modest RPMs, but don't know if 10ml would cause too much drag, but per their graphs, it looks like the incremental drag between 8ml and 10ml looks to be minimal. The graphs also show that the increase in heat conductivity between the two is even less.

I'm not really interested in adding hubsinks, but checked out what additional cooling might be gained by looking at the simulator. Using the MXUS 3005 as the example, since the simulator tests the motor, the motor with Statorade, and Statorade and hubsinks, it gives a good idea of the effect of each.

Adding Statorade alone provides a (dramatic) 48% improvement in shedding the heat. Statorade and hubsinks provides 53%, so 5% additional cooling relative to Statorade alone. The simulator doesn't model hubsinks alone, since that would only provide a negligible improvement, if any.

My conclusion is that it won't hurt (much) to add the additional 2ml of Statorade, and hubsinks aren't worth enough to do much for my case, so taming my throttle hand is probably the best solution, aside from adding a temp sensor to my motor. Anyone experience any downside to this?

Statorade, and Statorade plus hubsinks:
Statorade Sinks.jpg

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MX3005&batt=cust_72_0.05_24&cont=cust_70_200_0.03_V&hp=0&axis=mph&frame=mountain&autothrot=false&throt=100&grade=0&cont_b=cust_70_200_0.03_V&motor_b=MX3005_Sinks&batt_b=cust_72_0.05_24&hp_b=0&bopen=true

This seems about in line with my experience with statoraid and hubsinks on a qs 205 50h 4t I had.
The statoraid made a lot of difference.
When I added hubsinks, well maybe a little.
I dont have any data more than what I experienced on the bike.
 
markz said:
What about drilling holes in the hub motors side covers?

I think drilling holes is a really bad idea - You introduce dust and road debris into the motor.
On the other hand, if you ingested some water, it will steam out more easily.
The best solution is to have the right motor-size for the job. You will also save on your battery wear & tear since a bigger motor will run more efficiently.
 
thunderstorm80 said:
I think drilling holes is a really bad idea - You introduce dust and road debris into the motor.
On the other hand, if you ingested some water, it will steam out more easily.
The best solution is to have the right motor-size for the job. You will also save on your battery wear & tear since a bigger motor will run more efficiently.

Except for the downsides, venting is probably the most efficient way to removing the heat. I remember thinking after feeling the motor, that it was probably continuing to cook itself after a stopped to let it rest, sort of like tenting a roast with aluminum foil, while it continues to cook.
There's a few threads on the forum, where folks have mounted a fan on the stator, so keep the airflow going, which seems like an added option that would cool the motor even more. :thumb: In a more controlled environment, like a race track, I'm guessing venting is the preferred option.
 
Looking at the SYSTEM A vs the SYSTEM B...

I do wish it could incorporate the hubsink data. Only options available are the ones you have made note of.

I have thermal sensors and the ability to datalof up to five thermal channels at a time on a spreadsheet. Spreadsheet can manipulate and graph at will as we all know.

I have been running dry since a 5v line for the Halls went out ( rubbing inside hub) and had to drain the ATF out and just closed the hub and left it dry. I towed another ebiker/deadbike up about a mile and half hill the other day and saw some of the highest case cover temps recorded yeti system. Approaching 150* F on the case covers. This would have killed the hub before the cooling sinks.. I regularly saw 140*+ back then when I had that setp ( bare hub just with sensors). Normal running with just me (rider) as the load, I rarely go over 100F on the covers.

That hot on the outside, imagine how hot on the inside.

Yes there isa sneor int here too. ( F this keyboard). (Yes, there is a sensor in there too.. )

Yes the heat gets there without the fluid. It must come through convection or conduction through the steel and aluminum. I still dissipate a certain bit, and the fin equation should be modeled, or at least extrapolated... from the Grin system.

I do have control measures in place certainly for the tests. I jsut dont have all the time int he world to lay it all out. Srry.

These pictures were taken with ZERO fluid in the hub, hub sinks only. They seem to be doing .. some thing. For sure.
 

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Something to think about is to firmly attach a pc fan to the seat stay or chain stay pointed at the hub motor. Might not be enough air volume which might be deflected by the air movement from the bike moving.

Another unorthodox method is to have a bottle of water slowly drip onto the hub motor. I have actually submerged my hub motor in a river before a big climb, alternatives could be sprinkler over-spray of lawns but might look creepy to the people in the homes and people passing by.

The thread I remember is the fella attached a bunch of mini fans inside the stator.

The thread on people drilling holes in the cover plates I never read much about debris getting in there, but it would seem very logical and you wouldnt want a rock to get in there and chew the motor up.

where folks have mounted a fan on the stator, so keep the airflow going, which seems like an added option that would cool the motor even more.
 
E-HP said:
My conclusion is that it won't hurt (much) to add the additional 2ml of Statorade, and hubsinks aren't worth enough to do much for my case, so taming my throttle hand is probably the best solution, aside from adding a temp sensor to my motor. Anyone experience any downside to this?
I added the full 10ml and didn't notice a difference, although I didn't do any testing (i.e. the idle current test.)

I would strongly suggest adding the temp sensor. It's going to be the best way to protect your motor from damage if you are pushing it that hard.
 
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