Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 12kW

[Doctorbass]

JUST ONE WORD:

AWSOME!!!


Congrat Allex!!,

Thi sis very impressive!.. for a more EBIKE style hub motor this is probably one of the top performance acheived ever! 8)

:wink:

The song fit just perfect too!!

I saw 167A batt current peak.. ouch!! 8)


Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

Time to rename the title!:

Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 12.6kW


Man!.. your adaptto sustained above 12kW ( 150A+) for 20 sec continuous in the video :lol: ans no popcorn inside.. .. these are tough!

Witch winding on your cromo exactly? or is it still the 5403?

Doc

 

[Allex]

Cheers Doc! I expect you to beat this video soon, in fact I command you
When will you get your quanshun(cro)?

 

[Doctorbass]

Cheers Doc! I expect you to beat this video soon, in fact I command you
When will you get your quanshun(cro)?

I'll get it soon i hope.. I just hesitate between buying the one from Andrey or the new batch that is supposed to arrive in april.. i'm curious to see the improovement..
The one that Andrey reserved for me is the kv of 12.3


The only thing that could make me to beat your setup with my NYX is having less voltage sag on my battery witch would keep the power above 13-14kW i expect.. but i'm using the Zero motorcycle farasis cells and Luke said they can handle 400A easy so....

once we have less than 1-2meter of snow outside and less ice on the road i'll try that as well ! but it will be with my 5403 or my 5302..

Was your last video on a flat with NO SLOPE?

Doc

 

[Allex]

Yes, the road was pretty much a flat but with a long left turn, it is very hard to find a nice flat, stright road here in Stockholm. Plus I am a very light driver. Temperature outside was about 5°C The acceleration should even be better If I would run a test during a hot summer day. The Air density is less then

 

[\/ampa]

Congrats Allex! nice archivement.
If you want turn your hub motor into a plasmaball while twist your swing-arm into a banana. Than try this baby http://kellycontroller.com/keb84121e24v-84v500a12kw-bike-brushless-controller-regen-p-1322.html

 

[Allex]

Oh yes, it would be interesting to see how Kelly performs. Or I can just unlock Adaptto and have even more(think 800Amps)!

 

[Doctorbass]

I have a Kelly with my 5403 on my Giant and i hate it !.. it's a 120V 220A and if i set phase current too high the motor cut and pulsate..

i'll never buy a kelly again.. too much trouble!

My friend have the 144V (180Vmax) 600A version of the kelly BLDC with his Enertrac dual 602 hub motor.. ( similar to 4x 5304 in parallel all in the same hub) for his GSX E-R1100

The controller also pulsate when the inductance of the motor is too low.. they overprotect the phase current !!

Doc

 

[\/ampa]

So will Kelly join the FOC controller crowd soon ?

 

[Doctorbass]

Hey Allex,

I as curious to check your number and trace a curve of the acceleration from your video.

I have used the 25% speed in YT to have time to note all displayed speed and time to calculate easier with my sport timer to check the time.

Something really curious is that when i timed the video, my chronometer showed 12.03sec after the YT video was showing 10.0sec just like the timer in the video was 20% faster.
So i corrected the 20% time diff and here is my graph.

Here is what i got:
not bad anyway !! :wink:

Doc

 

[Allex]

Thats is really interesting. I have to check that timer again. What I did is a fast cut in Adobe premiere and added a built in timer. Hard to count with youtube as you only can make it show seconds.
Edit: yep, something is not right with this timer. Real values if counting with Premiere timeline:
0-50=3.1sek
0-80=5,3sek
0-100=9,1sek

Now I need to unlock the controller to get to those wrong values

 

[Doctorbass]

Thats is really interesting. I have to check that timer again. What I did is a fast cut in Adobe premiere and added a built in timer. Hard to count with youtube as you only can make it show seconds.
Edit: yep, something is not right with this timer. Real values if counting with Premiere timeline:
0-50=3.1sek
0-80=5,3sek
0-100=9,1sek

Now I need to unlock the controller to get to those wrong values

What is impressive is the work that the Adaptto OVS does! I have simulated your setup with the ebike simulator and your top speed is about 65-70km/h. But you can reach 115km/h withc is close to double the speed with the BOOST ( OVS) on the adaptto.!

One the simulator what is important is that at those insane speed (80kmh+) the peak power curve you get form the motor must be after your desired top speed since what count is to have the required power to get to these speeds, not the voltage or amp.. but both.

With the OVS it's like your motor become a 2T or 3T ( a kv of 12 to 18 after 70km/h)

I have simulated the same thing with my 5302. on a 20". lol.. a thin 32mm stator..!. and I get similar performance as your 5403 with 24". but this is probably due to 22s and the fact that it's a 18kv so it does not need the OVS to work so it can remain in a more efficient zone even at 100kmh. but it's a controller killer :lol:

By estimation, if it's linear.. well.. let say....... this mean that if I can get 10.5kW+ at 75%eff) with a simple 32mm stator... with a 40mm stator from the 5400 serie motor you can get easy 40/32=125% higher power.. .witch would be about 10.5x 125% = 13.2kW.

by unlocking it you will need to unlock the battery power witch is what limit your top speed... Phase power is only for your acceleration during lower speed.

But... I know that the adaptto use 10AWG wires to the PCB and mosfet "bussbar".. so this would need to be upgraded to avoid them to melt the solder where they attach. A AWG 8 would be perfect!

Look like it is not the motor that is the limitation but the controller batt current.

It would be good to see what a high kv cromotor ( 13+) would give with a batt current of 200A

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

Allex, did you tested that acceleration with the NORMAL mode set with the same setting?

I just wonder what max power and speed you would get without the OVS ?

or have you tested with the OVS set to OFF ?

or would you mind testing it

Doc

 

[madin88]

Doc, why you use that old clyte X53 motors as example MXUS 3000 will blow it away and is not that heavy !

 

[Doctorbass]

Doc, why you use that old clyte X53 motors as example MXUS 3000 will blow it away and is not that heavy !

I know.. I am preparing to get a Cromotor.. but i'm really not decided yet on witch winding.. kv of 9.3 or 12.3...

The MXUS is also really interesting i know

Doc

 

[Allex]

Yes you are right at 115km/h you need more than 12kW of power. I could get 121km/h during hot weather and down a 5° slope at 130DC amps on 20s
I never tried 0OVS but here is at OVS2, 90km/h

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmuKBPBY67w

What do you need me to test, max speed at ovs0?

 

[Rix]

Yes you are right at 115km/h you need more than 12kW of power. I could get 121km/h during hot weather and down a 5° slope at 130DC amps on 20s
I never tried 0OVS but here is at OVS2, 90km/h

[youtube]MmuKBPBY67w[/youtube]

What do you need me to test, max speed at ovs0?

The more I watch your vids the more I want an adapto MAX E

 

[macribs]

Doc, why you use that old clyte X53 motors as example MXUS 3000 will blow it away and is not that heavy !

I know.. I am preparing to get a Cromotor.. but i'm really not decided yet on witch winding.. kv of 9.3 or 12.3...

The MXUS is also really interesting i know

Doc

1+ Same goes for me. And I have not yet dismissed a mid motor. Puh. Too many choices and too little time.

 

[Allex]

Thats an easy one, if you are 70/30 offroad/road then middrive. If 30/70 offroad/road mxus3k and if heavy fella at 30/70 then cromotor.

 

[\/ampa]

Thats an easy one, if you are 70/30 offroad/road then middrive. If 30/70 offroad/road mxus3k and if heavy fella at 30/70 then cromotor.

Its also a question of what type offroad. For hilly or with many high jumps mid-drive is fav. But if u just want rip down a trail with not much hill than a hub is fav.

 

[beast775]

Great informative post,never thought id see the day where a bicycle pulled so many amps without twisting and blowing up.gotta go read the adaptto post exciting .

 

[macribs]

Thats an easy one, if you are 70/30 offroad/road then middrive. If 30/70 offroad/road mxus3k and if heavy fella at 30/70 then cromotor.

Its also a question of what type offroad. For hilly or with many high jumps mid-drive is fav. But if u just want rip down a trail with not much hill than a hub is fav.

Well thanks guys. Guess cro it is then.
There is a v4 of cromotor coming any day now is it not?

Is there any news of what specs it will have? The croatian site is not updated with any v4 info. And the v4 thread is year and a half old.
Have you guys heard any rumors?

What about the cro axle - seems the v1 had some axle issues. Are the axle issue solved for the later versions?

 

[Doctorbass]

Yes you are right at 115km/h you need more than 12kW of power. I could get 121km/h during hot weather and down a 5° slope at 130DC amps on 20s
I never tried 0OVS but here is at OVS2, 90km/h

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmuKBPBY67w

What do you need me to test, max speed at ovs0?

Yes! could you test max speed at OVS to zero :wink: as well.. on a full charged battery same road same conditions.

Doc

 

[Offroader]

Hi Allex,

You mentioned that you have 280 cells of the following:

LG DBHE 2 cells, this will be a 20s14p pack
Specifications:
1.LG IMR18650 high drain li-ion battery
2.Nominal Capacity: 2500mAh;
3.Max. discharge: 35A
4.Cut-off voltage: 2.5V
5. Charge Current: 4A

Do you have any spares of these cells, could you weigh the exact grams of a single cell?

How much did you pay for all 280 cells?

Thanks

 

[macribs]

@offroader maybe this battery pack calculator can help?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=67986